PD Storm

[Skwrl 56]

I've put on a bunch (about 20) more jumps onto my Storm, and I can say I'm really digging it. The glide ratio is steeper than a Sabre2 190 (I can say that because I did a little non-contact CRW with a friend and I had to adjust to match his glide). My prior canopy was a Sabre2 210.

I'm starting to think the longer lines are actually a feature, not a bug - they allow for more precision when turning (i.e., it's like the difference between a dial that goes from 1 to 10 versus a dial that goes from 1 to 100 - it's not that it does the turn any differently, but rather you can say, "I want to do a 76" as opposed to a "7 or 8-ish..." It took me a few jumps to get used to the flare for landing, but I now have it worked out (I think).

The openings were great (jumping it with a wingsuit exclusively) and with one exception very, very smooth (the one exception was when I asked the packer to pack it so it opens "real fast" - I was trying to see what it would do... It did.)

Overall, still loving it.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[ladyhawke 0]

My 9 cell Pilot has a much flater glide angle but now I'm finding the steeper the angle the easier it is for me to "pick the spot that doesn't move" and land there. Plus my Pilot is a 168 and I'm demoing a 150 so I'm coming in faster too. So at first I was scared out of my mind but now I'm getting use to it and I like it better!

I demoed a lot of canopies before purchasing my Pilot and maybe it's because now I'm a little bit more experienced (and I emphasize a little bit) but I truly feel I'm just beginning to learn how to fly a canopy!

Very exciting and very FUN!

"It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities." - A. Dumbledore

[phoenixlpr 0]

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The glide ratio is steeper than a Sabre2 190

Glide ratio is a scalar number. How can it be steep or what?

[Baksteen 84]

Ah, right.. you're used to 9-cells.

Reason i was asking is because I was jumping a Spectre 190 which I could land reasonably accurate before switching to the Storm 190. I now have a tendency to overshoot my target by not a small amount.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[Skwrl 56]

Fine, sorry, the word "ratio" was incorrect. More accurately: over identical delta s (difference between horizontal starting and ending points over a fixed time t) for both the Storm and the Sabre 2, the delta h (difference between vertical starting and ending points over the same time t) was more in the Storm than it was in the Sabre 2. Thus, expressed as a ratio of delta s over delta h, the denominater is greater in the Storm; therefore the glide ratio is smaller.

Or as a human might say it, the glide of the Storm is steeper than the Sabre2 210.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[billvon 2,380]

>Glide ratio is a scalar number. How can it be steep or what?

Because it expresses a ratio that is proportional to how steep the glide angle is.

[mjosparky 3]

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Fine, sorry, the word "ratio" was incorrect. More accurately: over identical delta s (difference between horizontal starting and ending points over a fixed time t) for both the Storm and the Sabre 2, the delta h (difference between vertical starting and ending points over the same time t) was more in the Storm than it was in the Sabre 2. Thus, expressed as a ratio of delta s over delta h, the denominater is greater in the Storm; therefore the glide ratio is smaller.

Or as a human might say it, the glide of the Storm is steeper than the Sabre2 210.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[dannydan 0]

well well well..... Here we are nearing the end of the jumping season above the 36deg parallel line? Im hardcore tho I WILL jump in the cold and snow if the DZO allows the aircraft from the confines of the warm hanger.... But anyway, I am back here in this thread to uPdate on the PD STORM that i did buy like I said I was going to. My last post was jul 3rd. I chopped my old used uP PD210 the next day on the 4th! Ordered my STORM a week or so later and recd it the day b4 I busted my right heel jumping over a car/truck racing my grandkid to the trampoline! I still WON that race by the way and was not the "rotten egg" lol!! With the few jumps on my 170 STORM that I have made in between chops and injuries (yes plural) I can absolutely without hesitation say that my STORM is the badass canopy that it was made to be. I have but one question for other PD STORM jumpers out here, demos or owned, I want to know who has noticed ANY stabilizer flapping? Both of my stabilizers flap continuously in flight and in turns of every degree. I had spoke with a PD rep about two months ago about this and we agreed that if it was possible before i send it back or think that I should, that if I could get video FIRST and send that video in versus the actual canopy, that would be a great idea, however... (this is where the {plural} comes in) I had another heel injury after recovering from the first and so my flight time has been VERY limited this season... so NO video as of yet! arghh.

Anyone else noticing their stabs being loose/flapping while in the saddle?

Everything else about the STORM is as perfect as a canopy can get by far and barr none!!!

...and yes this is the most interesting most informitive thread on the STORM of the three threads on dzzy dot com. I can also honestly say that at the age of 45, i have started to find my limits of FUN while on the ground! hehehe lil ;)

peace blue1s and STAY healthy out there!!! :)

[ASTKU 1]

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I have but one question for other PD STORM jumpers out here, demos or owned, I want to know who has noticed ANY stabilizer flapping?

I have 130 jumps. 101 jumps on a spectre210 and 16 jumps on a STORM190. So far I think this STORM is an unbelievably awesome canopy. The flare is amazing and it seems a lot faster in full flight than the spectre which I like a lot.

To answer your question. When I first jumped this canopy the steering lines were super long and because of this we shortend them 6 inches. The stabilizers do seem to flap around more than my spectre but I don't think it is a problem on my canopy. Shortening the steering lines made this canopy a lot easier to control and took some of the slack that created some flapping out.

One thing I haven't quite figured out is that my storm seems to have a mind of its own. After deploying my spectre I would hang out for a minute before popping my brakes. If I do that under my Storm it seems to want to turn, mainly left and its difficult to get going straight (using rear risers). I don't know if the trim of the canopy needs adjusting or if this is just a more twitchy canopy (plus its smaller) or just characteristic of this canopy. ANYBODY EXPERIENCE SLIGHT UNWANTED TURNS????

[LouDiamond 1]

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When I first jumped this canopy the steering lines were super long and because of this we shortend them 6 inches.

This may be the reason why you are experiencing issues with the turning. The PD Storm owners manual specifically addresses control line length and recommends that if you still feel you need to shorten the control lines that no more than an inch or 2 at the most be done. PD Storm Owners manual here

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[ASTKU 1]

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This may be the reason why you are experiencing issues with the turning.

After my first jump, I was SURE that the canopy turned left when I was flying it in half brakes and full flight. It was really weird. At that time I did have to wrap my hands around the toggles twice to get any type of decent flare... I talked with my rigger and I told him to take 4 inches out. After telling him what I experienced with wrapping the toggles in my hand he decided to go with 6 inches..... Obviously I don't have much experience but the 6 inches seems perfect. I don't get input in the canopy until I drop my hands a couple inches.... Also since we shortened the lines the canopy seems to turn left less but everytime I have landed since then (15 times) I have had to pull my right toggle down a little so that I am flying straight upon landing....

THOUGHTS???

What I plan to do is have somebody with experience jump it and see what they notice....

[mnealtx 0]

Having someone else give it a go sounds like a good idea. Is it possible you have one leg strap a little tighter than the other?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[buff 0]

Not a rigger but have lengthened my brake lines.

Look back in full flight and see if your tail is deflected any and if the lines have bows to them.

If not, you probably have one side shorter than the other and its deflecting the tail on that side inducing the turn. So when you pull both lines down to the same level, one side is giving more tail input than the other.

Get out your Storm manual and you should see how to measure the lines. Peg the line where the manual shows and then measure them yourself. It's not hard to figure out and easily done without a rigger. Of course if there is a line length difference and you don't feel comfortable doing the adjustment, take your findings back to your rigger and have him/her adjust it.

Either way, you will learn something new about your rig which is a good thing. Just my 2 cents.

It's called the Hillbilly Hop N Pop dude.
If you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough.
That's fucked up. Watermelons do not grow on trees! ~Skymama

[ASTKU 1]

I was really trying to study it while under canopy and the only thing that seemed out of alignment was possibly the side (stabilizers). It seeemed to me like the left side was somewhat shorter??? The tail seems good to me...

I would probably know more but I haven't been jumping at my home DZ so I haven't been able to talk to my rigger about this. I also injured myself a little so it might be a little while til I get jumping again

[ASTKU 1]

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Is it possible you have one leg strap a little tighter than the other?

I'd say no. I was very conscious of that before my jumps. 16 jumps total

[hackish 8]

If it's turning with your brakes set then adjusting the length of the brake lines at the toggles will have no effect. My sabre2 used to turn so much I could barely make it fly straight with all the harness turn my hips had. It was out of trim. Badly out of trim.

If the harness adjustment doesn't do it you could have your local rigger check the line trim.

-Michael

[jumpwally 0]

any more Storm stories?

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[nomal2day 0]

I love my Storm! 190, loaded at 1.13. Predictable heading on opening, and rarely an end-cell closure; which rights itself in 2-3 secs anyway if it occurs.

I don't roll the nose or do anything apart from a straight pro-pack, and it is a smooth opening in about 5-600'. I am not going to say that it has nowhere even near spanked me, because tomorrow is Friday 13th and I plan on doing a pile of jumps!! So suffice to say it has been very kind so far.....

A couple of times on reaching full inflation I have felt a swing either side after opening, but it could be my body position (I don't have enough experience to accurately judge this one).

Two hands needed to collapse the slider (two tabs), and do that before releasing the toggles. The 'brakes set' position to full flight releases a LOT of latent energy and the canopy surges forward strongly. I once didn't fully collapse the one side of the slider and as I was correcting that I released one brake ahead of the other.... In a way I am glad it happened, because now I know that if it opens with a premature brake release on one side the horizon is going to look very strange, both the angle and the rate of rotation... It was a very abrupt turn.

Front riser force is pretty high, and without dive loops it is hard work to get much of an effect. Toggle turns are great, and you can work up a nice tight spiral. As a 7-cell it recovers very quickly on releasing the toggle pressure.

Sinking in with half or deep brakes is rock solid. I can't get a full stall on my canopy with full brakes (and no wraps), but it goes very, very quiet and I believe it is very close to a full stall. The canopy stays presssurized even at low speeds and a bit of turbulence.

I prefer to start the flare from full flight speed (I believe it is just over 30mph) and then there is extraordinary power available. But as mentioned previously, don't stop short with the flare, not even when you think you must be at maximum effect; chances are you are only about 85% and there is a lot more available. I found that I ended up with my arms fully extended and even pushing my shoulders down a bit, and then even light-wind days are easy step-downs. PD recommends not shortening the brake lines until you get used to the standard length; and yes, it takes a couple of landings but you do get used to it.

Am I happy I bought a Storm? Yes! Would I recommend it based on my limited experience and having 30 jumps on it? Yes!

'To fly is heaven, to freefall is divine'

'You only need 2 tools. WD40 for when it doesn't move but should, and duct tape for when it moves but shouldn't'

[stitch 0]

Next time you jump, open at about 4000. Release the brakes, then take about 3 wraps of line around your hands while holding the toggles. Next slam the toggles down to your waist in an equal motion.

It will be quite alright. Quite violent. Don't panic. You're not going to fall out of the sky. Let both toggles up smoothly or you could induce line twist.

It's a hoot and good for the pucker factor. Then you'll see there is a big difference between deep brakes and a dynanic toggle stall.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[jumpwally 0]

In my opinion taking 3 wraps or any wraps for that matter is not the smartest thing one can do. My friend did this a little over zelous and got lines wrapped around his wrist alti, he panicked, let go of the other lines to try and undo his wrist, that put the canopy in a wild spin, it got ugly in a hurry, fortunately he got it worked out just shy of his hard deck...if he didn't then what ? Why dick around ?

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Why dick around ?

Some people just can not understand that any wing can be stalled......
.......and no need to stall a wing in order to land properly....

[jakee 1,254]

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I prefer to start the flare from full flight speed

As you should. If you know anyone that doesn't, slap them!

(Unless they're a grizzled olde-timey accuracy type)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[edge01 1]

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In my opinion taking 3 wraps or any wraps for that matter is not the smartest thing one can do. My friend did this a little over zelous and got lines wrapped around his wrist alti, he panicked, let go of the other lines to try and undo his wrist, that put the canopy in a wild spin, it got ugly in a hurry, fortunately he got it worked out just shy of his hard deck...if he didn't then what ? Why dick around ?

Riser stalls are more fun.

[matthewcline 0]

True, but it it good info to have. Knowing when a canopy will stall and how it behaves in the stall, and in it's recovery, is good info for later use.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[LouDiamond 1]

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True, but it it good info to have. Knowing when a canopy will stall and how it behaves in the stall, and in it's recovery, is good info for later use.

Matt

This is a two edged sword and I don't recommend it to beginners or even intermediate canopy pilots. It used to be, that pretty much all canopies could be flared to the point that they stalled aerodynamically and stopped generating lift, so knowing where that stall point was in the toggle flare and how it recovered was necessary not only during flight but also for landing.

However, most modern canopies manufactured today won't stall with a normal toggle flare, the Storm is a good example, as it stays inflated and doesn't oscillate when in a full toggle flare like some canopies tend to do. If the jumper has to induce a canopy stall by resorting to wrapping lines 2 and 3 times or any other method that is not within the normal range of toggle flare, the exercise is unrealistic and potentially dangerous. Why practice something that you would normally never do to fly and or land your canopy?


Now, some canopies DO stall or can be stalled by jumper input, accuracy canopies are a good example as they can be shut down more than most canopies as can the MC-4. Canopies that are not in trim or with lines out of spec could potentially cause a canopy to stall that normally wouldn't. So how do you know if your canopy can be stalled? At a safe altitude, go into a full toggle flare, as deep as you can. If it feels like the canopy is starting to fly backwards and then starts to fold in on itself, your canopy can be stalled and practicing this and becoming familiar with the recovery is a good idea. But if your canopy doesn't do this, don't resort to pulling and wrapping lines around body parts to make it react that way, unless of course you just want to make the jump more exciting that it already is.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING