Metekanya 0 #1 April 10, 2008 I have never used RSL in a rig I have owned, fearing mostly being thrown tumbling from a spinning mal and having my reserve opening in any direction but the desired. Specially now with smaller canopies. I have read about it and apparently the odds of the above happening are not as high as I thought. I have heard that the RSL should be disconnected in case of wanting to cut away from a downplane because it would not work properly. Is it worth spending time on that? What are your thoughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #2 April 11, 2008 In general, if you can't cutaway in a really bad situation you're in the wrong sport. If you can't cutaway because your disabled or knocked out then your life is in the hands of some guy named Helmut who lives in Germany. And even then if you jump a fashionable reserve size you're doomed anyway . . . NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnnyZ 0 #3 April 11, 2008 I wouldn't have a standard RSL, but I have 3 mals with Skyhook reserve rides. One mal was a twisting spinner on a Crossfire 2 129 loaded at about 1.7 and 2 were on a JVX 96 loaded at about 2.3 (another twisting spinner and one neck wrecker with several broken a-lines). The reserve deployment on the mal with the broken a-lines spun up about 1 1/2 revolutions, but it flew straight and I easily kicked out of it. I was impressed with the speed of the deployment on all three occasions and I can see where it could be very beneficial to those that like to deploy their mains at lower altitudes. I make it a habit to almost always deploy by 3500 to 4000 ft, which in all three malfunctions left me plenty of time to evaluate the situation, cut away and be under a reserve by 2500 ft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #4 April 11, 2008 The number of people who have had reserve mals due to instability is very small compared to those who have successfully cut away and gone in without a fully deployed reserve. If you are spinning you get line twists. That happened to someone I know last summer; he landed before he could deal with the twists and was badly hurt. Since he didn't have time to deal with line twists what do you think his chances were of getting a reserve at all if he did not have an RSL? I agree that a skyhook is a superior solution, but until I get a new rig my RSL is done up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #5 April 11, 2008 Quote The number of people who have had reserve mals due to instability is very small compared to those who have successfully cut away and gone in without a fully deployed reserve. If you are spinning you get line twists. That happened to someone I know last summer; he landed before he could deal with the twists and was badly hurt. Since he didn't have time to deal with line twists what do you think his chances were of getting a reserve at all if he did not have an RSL? I agree that a skyhook is a superior solution, but until I get a new rig my RSL is done up. Count me as one then. Years ago I had a spinning mal on my 80VX, and when I chopped it I spun like a frisbie. My RSL pulled my reserve and it had about 6 line twists on it and started to dive just as my main did. I was able to kick out at about 100ft before it augered me into the ground. My RSL came off immediatly after that. If you remove your RSL, what people need to remember is, dont go in trying to get stable......www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #6 April 11, 2008 RSLs have more pros than cons. Remember that 1/3 of USPA fatality reports used to involve "malfunction handled poorly." Most of those people would be alive today if they had worn RSLs. Since I believe in leading by example, I re-installed the RSL on my Talon and always leave my RSL connected when jumping tandems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #7 April 11, 2008 I've found just by asking people at various Dropzones that those who regularly jump without and RSL rarely have, IMHO, any good reason to do so. A lot of the younger jumpers don't wear them because the cool kids don't wear them. I think RSL's are great. QuoteSince I believe in leading by example, I re-installed the RSL on my Talon and always leave my RSL connected when jumping tandems. Well said. Try asking a few jumpers at the DZ why they don't wear an RSL. Can you confirm my hypothesis!??!=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sid 1 #8 April 11, 2008 Just after I first started jumping a Tandem I went in after a single riser broke on a tandem rig. The single sided RSL deployed the reserve into the malfunctioning main causing the fatality. I cut the rsl off of my first (POS) rig right then. That scenario was addressed by the manufacturer with the addition of a loop to the other breakaway cable, but I never reconnected the single sided RSL to my rig. Bill Booth (at the PIA symposium where he introduced the Skyhook) said "A single sided RSL is a stupid idea" and for once I agree with him On my tandem rig (Racer Tandem System) I keep the RSL connected until I'm happy with the main, then disconnect one side. I have done several intentional cutaways with the RSL (it is easier to time the reserve deployment when you only pull one handle - of course I pull them both but you only time from the breakaway). They work fine - I just never got around to hooking one up to my sport rig again........ Pete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #9 April 11, 2008 Quote I've found just by asking people at various Dropzones that those who regularly jump without and RSL rarely have, IMHO, any good reason to do so. A lot of the younger jumpers don't wear them because the cool kids don't wear them. I think RSL's are great. Am I a cool kid? I had 2 total mal. My main was hanging from the RSL when I was under my reserve..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Metekanya 0 #10 April 11, 2008 (quote) Count me as one then. Years ago I had a spinning mal on my 80VX, and when I chopped it I spun like a frisbie. My RSL pulled my reserve and it had about 6 line twists on it and started to dive just as my main did. I was able to kick out at about 100ft before it augered me into the ground. This is exactly why I am concerned. Ive had several cutaways and handled them well. I already have a fairly small canopy and will soon downsize, and I do not want the RSL to give me more problems in case of a malfunction. If I could install the skyhook on my Voodoo, I would do without doubt, but it is not approved. I can see many advantages of the RSL but there are apparently some disadvantages as well. Do you have more practical examples? What about my question on two canopies out? Does anyone know if it is true? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Metekanya 0 #11 April 11, 2008 NickDG, I cannot see what your answer has to do with my post. Are you sure you have not replyed in the wrong one? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #12 April 11, 2008 QuoteAm I a cool kid? I had 2 total mal. My main was hanging from the RSL when I was under my reserve..... Can you elobarate? If it was a total mal, how did the main get out? Was it a pilot chute in tow or container lock? Was the main open or still in the bag? Just trying to understand the mechanics of what happened to you. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #13 April 11, 2008 Quote Just after I first started jumping a Tandem I went in after a single riser broke on a tandem rig. The single sided RSL deployed the reserve into the malfunctioning main causing the fatality. I cut the rsl off of my first (POS) rig right then. I remember that happening as well. The problem is that is an example of one. I also remember a tandem going in in Abbotsford BC where the TM executed a cutaway high and stable but went in because he didn't pull the handle (possible student interference). When an RSL causes a problem is is definite that the RSL caused the problem; when the lack of an RSL is a cause it is generally one of many ways the problem could have been alleviated. In the 70's we used to hear the same arguments about seatbelts in cars. If you made a decision due to one incident I would suggest you were hasty. Quote Bill Booth (at the PIA symposium where he introduced the Skyhook) said "A single sided RSL is a stupid idea",... Bill never called it stupid before the Collins lanyard came out. The man is, after all, a salesman. Quote ,... and for once I agree with him. Wow. If that is the only time you have agreed with B.B. I can hardly wait for you to bring out your rig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #14 April 11, 2008 I don't use one because I do a lot of demonstration jumps, because of the types of shows I do it's possibly unsafe in that I may need to clear other jumpers in close proximity...jumpers that immediately after opening are busy deploying flags, banners, smoke etc. and may not be ready to avoid a collision with a reserve opening in front of them. None of my 'demo rigs' have one installed and I took it off my sport rig because I only want one set of EP's in the hard drive. It's a matter of personal choice, I can see the logic for using one as well in some circumstances the reasoning behind not. Were I strictly doing sport jumps, and since I don't use a HP canopy or do CReW...I would hook it back up. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #15 April 11, 2008 Only reason I'm not jumping with one is that 99% of my jumps are camera jumps (big helmet) these days, I've had plenty of reserve rides, 2 with rsl. One was a 2out downplane, didn't disconnect my rsl because while I had plenty of time I didn't know is was a good idea to disconnect it, didn't matter the main went away clean. 2nd reserve ride was a spinner on a small safire, reserve opened on heading and no twists, yay rsl. Since then I had one spinner where I'd have liked an rsl since the cutaway put me on my back before I had time to pull, rsl would've been quicker. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #16 April 11, 2008 Pro: It could save your life. Con: It could kill you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #17 April 11, 2008 Quote Pro: It could save your life. Con: It could kill you. Thanks for clearing that up for us John. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustChuteMeNow 0 #18 April 11, 2008 Attached is an article written by Relative Workshop BEFORE the invention of the skyhookon the Pros and cons of an RSL. Based on other articles written by Bill Booth recently I would say he is very pro skyhook. I don't know if his views have changed on a standard RSL or not.Think of how stupid the average person is and realize that statistically half of them are stupider than that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites