agent_lead 0 #51 April 9, 2008 QuoteReally? Would you? I guess personal responsibility is out the window these days. Try looking at your own gear once and a while. I have had to breakaway, more than once, and I knew EXACTLY what was on my back. I have since my 38th jump when I watched my rigger at the time assemble and pack my reserve. Do you know what your rigger is doing for you? How careful is your rigger? Do you know what your "Plan B" looks like? These are questions that every new jumper should be seeking the answers to. yeah i would...how the hell am i supposed to know whats in that bag? we cant open it to check it..its not like we sit there and watch our riggers repack our rigs when we drop them off sunday evening to be ready for us next weekend... theres no way that i would have ever known that thats what was in my reserve tray..untill i was spinning to my death... that being said...i do not feel the need to sit there with my rigger..as i trust him with my life...and i trust that he would never put me in a position like that..i know him personall yand is a good friend of mine..that said..that does not mean he cant make mistakes..but he always has a second set of eyes( another rigger) checking it..does that make me feel safe..yes it does..do i want to learn how to be a rigger? no i dont..i dont care to learn that..i like to know how it works and whats going on in there..and i do...ive sat with him while he has packed other peoples rigs...i see what goes on with the whole deal... inspecting my gear and opening up a packed reserve are 2 diff things...and the blatent disregard of letting a non-rigger hook up the OP's rig is inexcusable.. would my "young punk" attitude be validated if the OP had went in due to this? the fact is i would never have to introduce the peacemaker into the equation because i would never have some random schmoe packing my reserve..and i know that my rigger would NEVER let a mistake of that magnitude be packed into someones rig... trust is a valuable thing...its worth way more then the $60 i pay for my shit to get repacked...-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Waldschrat 0 #52 April 9, 2008 Badlock do have a lot more then 100 jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #53 April 9, 2008 That's great that you have that level of trust. I don't. What exactly makes you have that level of trust? What good does it do to say you'd visit a rigger with a gun if they ever screwed up?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #54 April 9, 2008 I kind of thought so. ---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #55 April 9, 2008 great attitude, you really rock The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Metekanya 0 #56 April 9, 2008 I pack my own reserves after I started Base jumping, but that was after making around 500 jumps and having let riggers pack my reserve many times. Most people, specially in their first years in the sport would not detect a rigging error even if watching the packing, and this is simply normal. If I had to give my rig to a rigger for a reserve pack it would be because I am jumping at the mean time with another rig or because I want to jump that rig next day, and then I would not have watched the packing. What do I do then? open it up to check? Should we really suspect everytime from the job of proffesionals? This rigger should have had his license removed so he had to get it again and pass the exam or whatever is needed to be a legal rigger again. It is the only way to be sure that he knows what he is doing. A slap on his face wouldnt have been too much of an over reaction either in my opinion. (But of course not killing him!!) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agent_lead 0 #57 April 9, 2008 QuoteThat's great that you have that level of trust. I don't. What exactly makes you have that level of trust? What good does it do to say you'd visit a rigger with a gun if they ever screwed up? what exactly are you proposing we all do...sit there and watch our reserve get repacked every time? thats not really an option for me..or my rigger and i never said i would visit a rigger with a gun...your putting words in my mouth..i would prolly bat out his knees tho if he ever packed my reserve the way the OP's was packed... screwing up a reserve repack is not somthing i or any skydiver should take lightly..we all put alot of trust into our reserves...its our last line of defense in an emergency situation..things like this should NOT happen..our riggers need to take the proper steps to make sure that everything is done correctly. if you dont trust your reserve..then why the fuck are you jumping? im not following your logic here...make me understand..i know if i didnt trust my reserve i would not be jumping out of planes.. are you packing your reserve yourself??are you yourself a rigger? if so then i understand what your saying since you packed it all yourself...most of us are NOT riggers and we do NOT pack our own reserves..we put our trust in our riggers...and thats the bottom line..because thats where it all ends... im not trying to get into a pissing contest with you..im not understanding why your trying to get into one with me..but if my rigger tried to fucking passively kill me..id be getting into a fight with him..trust that like the air you breathe...-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agent_lead 0 #58 April 9, 2008 and just for the record...im not some "young punk tuffguy" anyone who knows me will tell you im one of the most happy-go-lucky fuckers on the dropzone..i dont start trouble and i dont bother nobody..lotti dotti... this just happens to be something i have strong feelings about.. sorry if i offended you in the process...-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #59 April 9, 2008 Quotein all honesty tho...the rigger would have gotten a personal visit from me...and the peacemaker.. That quote is why. What would you have us assume the "peacemaker" is? You may trust your rigger totally, but I don't, there for I get involved in what is going on. And I don't assume the reserve on my back is a guarentee either, it's another tool I use to reduce risk. Have you asked your rigger if you can watch? Have they declined your request? Who's packing for you anyway?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agent_lead 0 #60 April 9, 2008 no i never asked my rigger if i can watch..he packs on the weekdays while im sitting here in the office getting in pissing contests with random people from dz.com for the record..sonic packs my reserve..at the ranch..i trust him way further then i can throw him.. the peacemaker thing is just a slang word..is it any worse then someone saying that they would kick his ass so hard that they would lose their shoe in it? whats the difference..where is the line drawn?-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #61 April 9, 2008 Sonic is a big dude, I doubt you could throw him very far at all. "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #62 April 9, 2008 QuoteHi Folks, as you can imagine, the headline contains a tang of irony. Of course, I didn't jump with a BASE rig out of airplanes, but I was the victim of a disastrous major rigging error that resulted in having a rig on my bag without a functioning reserve. At the beginning of the last season I bought a brand new, custom-made Vector Micron (V310) with a Skyhook, a PD-R reserve, Cypres 2 and a Safire 2 main. A great rig, very nice and well build. But even if it was so well built, it was assembled in a fatal way that maybe would have prevented the reserve from (at least sufficient) opening. The error was found during the regular repack and I thank God that I didn't have to use the reserve, even if I was a half of a second from a cutaway on one jump (due to a spinning main canopy). When the rigger (NOT the rigger who assembled and packed the rig) opened the rig, he found the following situation on the reserve: - The left Rear-Riser and the C and D Suspension Lines went thru the left front Grommet of the Slider. - The left Stering-Line went thru the left tail end Grommet. - The left Front-Riser went with the A and B lines thru the left tail end Grommet. - The slink that holds the A and B lines was rotated at 180 degrees. But look at the pictures! My rigger guessed that the reserve wouldn't have inflated at all because of the blocked Slider. He said, that this was the biggest major rigging error he had ever seen (2500+ reserve packjobs). He informed the rigger who made this error and also the German Parachute Association (DFV). The causer told me the follwing: - He led a rigger aspirant assemble and pack the whole system on its own. - He didn't prove his work at all. - However he (the rigger) placed his stamp and signature on the packing card. - After the investigation by the German Parachute Assosiation, the rigger got just a warning. He's still in business. It would be interesting to hear: - what the consequences in other countries would have been. - what do you think what a reserve opening would have caused in this case. Excuse me for my odd english, but - as you can imagine - I'm from Germany :) Maybe some one alreeady asked this but are they recalling all of his rigging when the other packer was invlvolved. It has to be obvious some one does not know that they are doing. Glad you are still with us and saving others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
agent_lead 0 #63 April 9, 2008 Quote Sonic is a big dude, I doubt you could throw him very far at all. my point exactly!-------------------------------------------- www.facebook.com/agentlead Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #64 April 9, 2008 >>for the record..sonic packs my reserve..at the ranch..i trust him way further then i can throw him..Here's the result of some rigging from the guy you trust with your life. His excuses are below the vid under the name UCCC. http://www.basejumper.com/videos/Span/BASE_X_Test_Jump_2_149.html NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #65 April 10, 2008 Any way you want to slice it, you would be better off if you educated yourself on the assembly and operation of your rig, and provided an extra set of eyes while it's being worked on. Nobody is perfect, but the odds of the two of you being imperfect on the same day, with regards to the same issue are very slim. Sure, a ton of people just drop their rig off, and trust that everything will be 'fine'. Well, that's their error, and not justification for you to follow in their foot steps. This is your LIFE that's on the line. Either buck up and take an interest in it, or just admit that you're sheep like the rest of them. It's one or the other, you choose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #66 April 10, 2008 Quote Quote yeah i would...how the hell am i supposed to know whats in that bag? we cant open it to check it..its not like we sit there and watch our riggers repack our rigs when we drop them off sunday evening to be ready for us next weekend... Quote That exactly why i watched my rigger work on my rig at the DZ the first few times he did the I&R, My rigger is ANAL about repacks, and i like that quality in my rigger. trust is a valuable thing...its worth way more then the $60 i pay for my shit to get repacked... ***it for the above mentioned reasons that i only ever get my gear repacked by one person. there are a lot of other people i trust to do the owrk, but my rigger knows my gear and it's history, and i trust him. he is also very keen to show and teach me anything i askYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jacketsdb23 45 #67 April 10, 2008 Quote Could you elaborate so this newish jumper does not make similar mistakes? NewGuy - Here are a couple things i've seen since January; and maybe this should be a whole new thread but.. 1. An RSL was improperly routed. It was wraped around the cutaway cable housing. It may have worked but was not correct. Same jumper was jumping in jeans and a long sleeve tee. The tee was not tucked in and was long. Would suck to play hide and seek with the reserve handle if it was needed. 2. Closing loop to long. Bag fell out of the container at about 2000 ft in the plane. In fact, both of these issues happened on the same load. After I closed the container back up (handy to have a pull up cord in jumpsuit - thanks K!) I noticed the RSL on a different jumper. 3. And this one was strange to me...I was helping someone connect their main canopy after they demoed a reserve. After the three ring was assembled I was looking to put the excess cutaway cable into the hard housing. Only problem was - there was no hole in the fabric covering the hard housing. So the jumper had been jumping with the cutaway cable slid underneath the hard housing. I'd never seen/heard of that before and don't know that it would have been an issue, but again it was not correct. We put a small hole in the fabric and correctly routed the excess cable in the hard housing.Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1 #68 April 10, 2008 QuoteI was looking to put the excess cutaway cable into the hard housing. Only problem was - there was no hole in the fabric covering the hard housing. So the jumper had been jumping with the cutaway cable slid underneath the hard housing. Was this, perchance, a Wings?"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jacketsdb23 45 #69 April 10, 2008 QuoteQuoteI was looking to put the excess cutaway cable into the hard housing. Only problem was - there was no hole in the fabric covering the hard housing. So the jumper had been jumping with the cutaway cable slid underneath the hard housing. Was this, perchance, a Wings? Yes it was.Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #70 April 10, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteI was looking to put the excess cutaway cable into the hard housing. Only problem was - there was no hole in the fabric covering the hard housing. So the jumper had been jumping with the cutaway cable slid underneath the hard housing. Was this, perchance, a Wings? Yes it was. I've noticed that too... annoying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ficus 0 #71 April 10, 2008 QuoteQuoteI was looking to put the excess cutaway cable into the hard housing. Only problem was - there was no hole in the fabric covering the hard housing. So the jumper had been jumping with the cutaway cable slid underneath the hard housing. Was this, perchance, a Wings? I ran into this a couple months ago assembling two new Wings rigs. With each riser, there had been a hole poked in the tape covering the opening of the hard housing, but it was very small and required some enlarging before the cutaway cable would get in. I saw the rig Marcel is talking about and there didn't appear to be even a small hole, but that is really no excuse for just stuffing the cable wherever it can fit. It's too bad not everyone uses the amp fittings like those cool VSE/Infinity risers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aeronaut 1 #72 April 10, 2008 and who is responsible for the malfunction / bad opening of your main canopy ? perhaps you ? now you find the best rigger in the world: assuming that you are unconscious or injured and the AAD opens your reserve. with a WL 1,6 !! , do you think you will survive the impact ? the rigger is only one part of the safety system , the other part are you. so , in this case you both fail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #73 April 10, 2008 Best reply in this entire thread (above) . . . NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryan_d_sucks 0 #74 April 10, 2008 Maybe a side note: Do you know of anybody else who has had their reserve packed by this rigger, or his apprentice? It might be well worth their time to contact them and let them know their reserve might kill them.. If you don't know anyone who has had a reserve packed by this guy, then you might want to tell the rigger he ought to notify anyone that had their reserves packed by his student or him recently. At least then the blood is on his hands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
love2flyhigh 0 #75 April 12, 2008 Ok I have worked on Aircraft for about the past six years and I am a Collateral Duty Inspector. As a "CDI" I do no "work" in that I watch people do the work and inspect the work after it is done. I was just thinking if the same precautions where taken on reserve repacks maybe mistakes could be drastically reduced. Yes you may have to pay more but is it not worth the extra few buck? Could this policy also lengthen the repack requirements? Two riggers are better than one, one would think. Quality Assurance is the only thing that matters in something as important as the "ONE". A worker and an inspector would be the way to fix this OTHER THAN A BOOT IN THE ASS OF FORSAID PACKER. Again this is only speaking from an aircraft inspector. Please let me know what you packers think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
