AFF or RAPS????

[Loli 0]

Hello everybody!!
I'm a (wannabe) newbie! A few years ago I started my RAPS training but had to stop due to going to uni and becoming a scrounging student.
I'm about to qualify from uni (woohoo) and want to re-start my training.
But cant decide whether to re-start the RAPS training or go abroad (somewhere sunny) and do the AFF training.
Which route is best?

Cheers

[erdnarob 1]

What do you call RAPS ? And how many jumps have you made so far ?

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

The best route is by far to take a tunnel integrated AFF course. You can fly to Florida, North Carolina, California or Arizona. Alternatively you can dig around and find someone to coach you in one of the two tunnels in UK and then fly with you to Spain for AFF.
RAPS is fine, I learned on the Canadian version, but it's main advantage is cost not quality.

[Loli 0]

RAPS stands for Ram Air Progression System (I guess it's an english term?) using the static line at the start of the training.
I did about 12 jumps but this was over two years (due to money!) so I didn't progress very fast.

So you don't think that the RAPS system is better quality? I've had one friend who says that it is,(and also the DZ I started training at, but they only did RAPS so I think they may have been a little biased!)

I think I like the idea of the integrated wind tunnel AFF, I hadn't thought about going somewhere that uses a wind tunnel...cheers! I'm going to check it out now.

[erdnarob 1]

There is no ideal system for skydiving progression. It depends on the individual's way to learn. Some people prefer what you call RAPS which is seemingly equivalent here in Canada to Static line and/or Instructor Assisted Deployment (IAD). This approach is a bit slower but give you more time to: integrate better the content, having review, letting you ask questions, exchanging with pairs...making you getting more mature skydivingly speaking. Other people would be proficient with an AFF course which will be heavier on your bank account. Studies demonstrate that after 20-30 jumps or so, any system leads to the same kind of results.
The wind tunnel is a way to start with a good freefall position but it is costly as well.
The most important for you is to find a system you are confortable with and which is affordable.
The wind tunnel is especially good for 2D work and position. The tunnel will not train you to dive from an airplane (3D), nor approaching a formation along a radial, nor tracking away along the same radial. Talk to people and make up your mind about what you feel the best for you despite of the fashion or trend.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[Andy9o8 0]

Hello and welcome! You're new heare, so you may not yet be familiar with this site's Search function. It's at the "Search" link at the top of the page.

Many prospective students have this question, and they've raised it on this site. I suggest you try these the searches: "AFF vs. static line"; "AFF vs. SL/IAD"; "AFF vs. RAPS"; "AFF vs. S/L" and "AFF vs. IAD". (Also interchange "vs." and "or".) The results will give you several threads that provide a great deal of exactly the type of useful information you're looking for.

Become one of us. You will never look at beer or a wet t-shirt the same way again.

[yarak 0]

wel I pick skydiving over rapping any day. Of course you could potentially make way more money rapping but only if you are good. I dont have any musical talent so I chose AFF. Also most rap music is pretty stupid.

well I have to peace out now cause im going to go kick it at my homeboys hizzy. We are just going to chill and maybe mack some shawties and drank some fawties. Stay krunk!

I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down.

[Unparagoned 0]

AFF is better in almost every single way. RAPS is simply a cheap way to learn to skydive. If you can afford AFF do that.

[degeneration 5]

If freefall is your immediate aim then AFF may be the better option. It is more costly than RAPS, but you are in freefall from jump #1, being coached as you fall.

With RAPS it is several jumps until you are on freefall.

One big plus that I've heard for RAPS compared to AFF (I did AFF in UK and Spain) is that as you start off at relatively low altitudes, RAPS students are generally more comfortable exiting at these lower altitudes than AFF ones. I remember when I did my 5k hop and pop to finish my AFF, as all my other jumps had been from 12 or 15k, I was absolutely bricking it, thinking that the 5k was VERY low. But a 5k hop and pop is nothing for a RAPS student as they start in the system at about 3.5k I think (correct me there if I am wrong).

Like on here, this discussion has taken place a lot over at ukskydiver.co.uk and it does seem to be that as far as the end result goes, it doesn't really matter which method you choose. If you get good weather and are good at the RAPS course, you could possibly proceed through it quite quickly, but the AFF course will probably be the quicker option.

Check your budget and see what you can afford, then decide which option appeals more to you. You'll love both regardless!!! Whichever you choose, once you start kiss goodbye to most of your disposable income for the rest of your skydiving career!!!

Welcome to poverty!

Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic).

[dragon2 0]

Aside from the facts that RAPS is cheaper and you are not as scared of low altitudes (a VERY big plus in my book) there is also the fact that as a RAPS/SL student you are able to jump with a lower cloud ceiling when an AFF student would be grounded. A nice plus in UK, Netherlands and other countries with less than stellar weather.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Andy9o8 0]

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AFF is better in almost every single way.

I think you're being overly simplistic. For example, that would unduly discount the value of more (and gradual) canopy flight experience before moving on to "self-supervised" status.

[rushboy 0]

I agree with Andy and will put a finer point on it. By far, the place/time/situation in which you are most likely to be injured (or worse) is while under canopy. I find that jumpers that have gone through IAD/static line progression are generally safer, more competent pilots. They have also spent more time at the DZ and have more general knowledge about the sport. Although AFF works for some, that doesn't mean that other methods don't some advantages.

If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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AFF is better in almost every single way.

I think you're being overly simplistic. For example, that would unduly discount the value of more (and gradual) canopy flight experience before moving on to "self-supervised" status.

I have heard this argument before and it makes no sense to me. If you take RAPS and do twenty five jumps to get your 'A' you will have twenty-five canopy rides. Conversely if you take AFF by the time you get your 'A' you will have twenty-five canopy rides.

[dragon2 0]

Do RAPS jumps count towards your A? Over here you need 25 FREEFALL jumps so SL does NOT count towards any license except your SL license and military wing. So a SL student WOULD potentially have more jumps here although I think hardly anyone gets his/her A at 25 jumps because of all the other things you need to do, I got my A at 50 jumps myself.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Andrewwhyte 1]

The IPF standard is 25 jumps including S/L. From what I have seen of the UK system it is pretty normal to get there 'A' at or close to 25 jumps.

[Andy9o8 0]

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AFF is better in almost every single way.

I think you're being overly simplistic. For example, that would unduly discount the value of more (and gradual) canopy flight experience before moving on to "self-supervised" status.

I have heard this argument before and it makes no sense to me. If you take RAPS and do twenty five jumps to get your 'A' you will have twenty-five canopy rides. Conversely if you take AFF by the time you get your 'A' you will have twenty-five canopy rides.

I tried to refer to it in my post, but maybe not clearly. What I meant is that many AFF students get cleared to "self-supervise" prior to getting their A licenses after about 8 or 9 jumps. In AFF/RAPS/IAD, that usually doesn't happen until about 20+ jumps. That's why I said ... whatever the hell it was I said. The caveat to what I said would be the DZs who continue to very closely supervise and instruct all students on every jump right up until they get their A.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I tried to refer to it in my post, but maybe not clearly. What I meant is that many AFF students get cleared to "self-supervise" prior to getting their A licenses after about 8 or 9 jumps. In AFF/RAPS/IAD, that usually doesn't happen until about 20+ jumps. That's why I said ... whatever the hell it was I said. The caveat to what I said would be the DZs who continue to very closely supervise and instruct all students on every jump right up until they get their A.

This is true. In Canada where we have a 'solo certificate' after ten jumps it is particularly true. However in UK while the student is doing their 'consols' after AFF before their 'A' they have a mandatory structured program called a CH1. This addresses the issue quite well in my view.

[DeeBeeGee 0]

Same amount of training for RAPS and AFF.
For AFF the day largely is split between Freefall, Emergency Procedures and Canopy Control
For RAPS it's mostly Emergency Procedures and Canopy Control and you get briefed about freefall when it becomes relevant
Is it fair to say that students preoccupy themselves predominantly with getting a canopy over their heads first, and flying it second?
For AFF students the jump is over when the canopy is open, which is when the jump begins for RAPS students
and no i have no stas to back any of this up

[Andy9o8 0]

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For AFF students the jump is over when the canopy is open, which is when the jump begins for RAPS students

Although, having come from S/L (RAPS) myself, I am a bit concerned about "task overload" on early AFF jumps, you're essentially saying that AFFIs generally give short shrift to the need to pilot and land your canopy safely, and from my own knowledge and observation of a hell of a lot of AFFIs, you're just wrong about that.