chutingstar 1 #1 April 3, 2008 Sunrise Rigging just sent out a service bulletin for its mid-flaps of the W1-1EXT, W5-1EXT and W4, as well as a main packing addendum. It's in a .pdf file that I can't upload as an attachment and it's not on their web site yet. Anyone out there can help get the .pdf file uploaded if I send it to you? Here's the cover page text: Date: 31 March 2008 Service Bulletin #: 08325 # of pages: 6 Subject: Mid-flap stiffener update and main packing addendum Status: Recommended Identification: • Recommended: W1-1EXT, W5-1EXT, W4, Background: Following two incidents with the same canopy pilot wherein a small diameter line was caught under the mid-flap plastic stiffener resulting in a main malfunction and line on main to not release from container. Sunrise Manufacturing recommends updating the mid-flap pin protector to increase flexion on the mid-flap. Service Bulletin: This Service Bulletin removes the tip of the plastic stiffener contained in the mid-flap pin protector. Authority: Henri Pohjolainen, President Sunrise Manufacturing Inc. 5260 Fort King Rd. Zephyrhills, FL 33542 (813) 788-1910 Distribution: All registered owners affected by the service bulletin All Sunrise Manufacturing, Inc. Dealers Parachuting Publications There is also photos and directions to complete the work as well as photos of stowing the main canopy lines. MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #2 April 3, 2008 File is here: http://www.parachutemanuals.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=27&func=fileinfo&id=302Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #3 April 3, 2008 Glad its only "recommended". My EXT has been working just fine for years, and I'll leave it just as it is. www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #4 April 3, 2008 Quote"Following two incidents with the same canopy pilot wherein a small diameter line was caught under the mid-flap plastic stiffener resulting in a main malfunction and line on main to not release from container..." Holy crap. He was lucky to survive this. Twice! He shoulda done something about it after the first time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmetz 0 #5 April 3, 2008 line was caught under the mid-flap plastic stiffener I'm trying to imagine how that could happen and I can't. Can someone elaborate?Quote_________________________________________ "If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites alexey 6 #6 April 3, 2008 Quote line was caught under the mid-flap plastic stiffener I'm trying to imagine how that could happen and I can't. Can someone elaborate? +1. I cant tooLexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packertom 0 #7 April 3, 2008 has anyone else had this same failure mode present? or is this just this one guy?... I'm wondering why sunrise would throw out an SB even though it's only recommended because of this? I've never heard of this being a problem on a wings before.. maybe they have been a rash or them or something and I didn't notice it.. I'd probably look at this one guy's packing and stowing technique ... just seems a bit odd to me.. thankfully this one isn't mandatory.. any one else wonder how exactly to cut a line with scissors, excluding the binding tape, remove the stiffener and reattach the piece of cordura without it looking like hell?tom@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com What's YOUR Zombie Plan? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jheadley 0 #8 April 3, 2008 What would be the advantage of packing like that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crazydiver 0 #9 April 3, 2008 Quotehas anyone else had this same failure mode present? or is this just this one guy?... I'm wondering why sunrise would throw out an SB even though it's only recommended because of this? I've never heard of this being a problem on a wings before.. maybe they have been a rash or them or something and I didn't notice it.. I'd probably look at this one guy's packing and stowing technique ... just seems a bit odd to me.. thankfully this one isn't mandatory.. any one else wonder how exactly to cut a line with scissors, excluding the binding tape, remove the stiffener and reattach the piece of cordura without it looking like hell? Use a razor. It shouldn't be difficult at all. Precision. Precision. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gemini 0 #10 April 3, 2008 As the bag left the container one of the lines looped around the main flap. There was a small gap between the seam that held the main flap to the container and where the stiffener in the flap started. The line caught between the seam and the bottom of the stiffener. When the canapy started to deploy it put tension on the main flap and tied the loop to the flap. Reserve was cleanly deployed past the trailing main both times. Jumper has over 5,000 jumps and has not had any packing issues. Long time wings user with multiple wings canopies. Blue skies, Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dmetz 0 #11 April 3, 2008 Thanks, but from what you've described I don't see the relation between that problem and the SB...I must be missing something, right? I'll get mine out when I get home to try to make sense of it._________________________________________ "If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jacketsdb23 49 #12 April 3, 2008 QuoteQuote line was caught under the mid-flap plastic stiffener I'm trying to imagine how that could happen and I can't. Can someone elaborate? +1. I cant too I'm with you guys. I can't picture this.Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DougH 270 #13 April 3, 2008 This sounds very familiar to the thread I was just reading about a performance variable rig that had a problem with lines getting hitched around the mid flap. "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fcajump 164 #14 April 4, 2008 Quote Sunrise Rigging just sent out a service bulletin for its mid-flaps of the W1-1EXT, W5-1EXT and W4, as well as a main packing addendum. It's in a .pdf file that I can't upload as an attachment and it's not on their web site yet. Anyone out there can help get the .pdf file uploaded if I send it to you? Here's the cover page text: Date: 31 March 2008 Service Bulletin #: 08325 # of pages: 6 Subject: Mid-flap stiffener update and main packing addendum Status: Recommended Identification: • Recommended: W1-1EXT, W5-1EXT, W4, Background: Following two incidents with the same canopy pilot wherein a small diameter line was caught under the mid-flap plastic stiffener resulting in a main malfunction and line on main to not release from container. Sunrise Manufacturing recommends updating the mid-flap pin protector to increase flexion on the mid-flap. Service Bulletin: This Service Bulletin removes the tip of the plastic stiffener contained in the mid-flap pin protector. Authority: Henri Pohjolainen, President Sunrise Manufacturing Inc. 5260 Fort King Rd. Zephyrhills, FL 33542 (813) 788-1910 Distribution: All registered owners affected by the service bulletin All Sunrise Manufacturing, Inc. Dealers Parachuting Publications There is also photos and directions to complete the work as well as photos of stowing the main canopy lines. Mike Like most, I can't "see" the problem/solution... For those with one in the shop, please see if you can post of pic of what the snag scenario looks like... Also, while the SB is fairly straight forward, I can't say its the most "finished" looking change... Would be nice to see an option to open the first stiches on the binding tape and trap the type 3 under the tape... a simple overstich around the horn would make it clean looking. Interesting that one of their recommended pack methods in the addendum is the old "split-stow" that some of us have used for YEARS!!!! JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pchapman 279 #15 April 4, 2008 1. To me it would be more descriptive to call it a main PIN COVER FLAP bulletin, not a MID FLAP bulletin. ... although yes they are part of the same assembly, and Sunrise call it the "mid-flap pin protector" in the main text of the bulletin. 2. Gemini described a situation that seems different from what the bulletin addresses. a)The bulletin modifies the last couple inches at the tip of the pin cover flap. b) The bulletin mentions a line catching "under the mid flap". Given their terminology it isn't quite clear where that happened, especially given the confusion over the mid flap vs. pin cover flap terminology. c) Gemini told about a case where a line apparently caught in the soft fold area where the pin cover flap turns into the mid flap. All a bit unclear to me. 3. Sunrise doesn't make it clear how making the tip of the pin cover flap more flexible will solve whatever problem we're talking about. Sounds like it would just make it easier to have the pin cover flap pop open. (But something unclear to me isn't necessarily unclear to them.) 4. What's different with the stiffeners or construction of just the W1-1EXT, W5-1EXT, & W4 listed in the bulletin? (Not that they have to tell us.) I just like having bulletins give a little bit of real rigging insight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DougH 270 #16 April 4, 2008 I am picturing this in my mind. http://www.sky-adventures.de/Unfall/Bilder-Guta/DSC05705.jpg This link was taken from this thread about a Performance Variable container. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1726796;page=2;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Now I can't wait to take a look at one of my friends Wings rigs. Here is what I am visualizing in my non rigger mind: if the plastic doesn't run the whole length of the flap then it gives you a soft place in the flap where a line can hitch around and cinch down. The line would have a hard time sliding off because it would cinch the soft part of the flap and would get caught on the larger part of the flap with the plastic. Am I warm??"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gemini 0 #17 April 4, 2008 It is exactly the same problem! By removing the stiffner from the tip of the main pin cover flap, it allows the mid flap to flex more which will move it up and away from the D bag at deployment. This reduces the chance of a line snagging on the mid flap. With the original stiffner in place, the mid flap could not flex out of the way and extended over the D bag. As the D bag deployed, it was moving past the mid flap and the lines would pull past the mid flap as well. The mid flap is the part of the container that holds both the reserve and main pin. The main pin cover flap is the part that folds up and over the main pin; tucks into the mid flap slit. The main pin cover flap is part of the mid flap. The lines were snagging on the mid flap not the pin cover flap. It looks like a good fix. Note that it applies to the smaller container sizes. Blue skies, Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
alexey 6 #6 April 3, 2008 Quote line was caught under the mid-flap plastic stiffener I'm trying to imagine how that could happen and I can't. Can someone elaborate? +1. I cant tooLexa Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packertom 0 #7 April 3, 2008 has anyone else had this same failure mode present? or is this just this one guy?... I'm wondering why sunrise would throw out an SB even though it's only recommended because of this? I've never heard of this being a problem on a wings before.. maybe they have been a rash or them or something and I didn't notice it.. I'd probably look at this one guy's packing and stowing technique ... just seems a bit odd to me.. thankfully this one isn't mandatory.. any one else wonder how exactly to cut a line with scissors, excluding the binding tape, remove the stiffener and reattach the piece of cordura without it looking like hell?tom@velocitysportswear.com www.velocitysportswear.com What's YOUR Zombie Plan? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #8 April 3, 2008 What would be the advantage of packing like that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #9 April 3, 2008 Quotehas anyone else had this same failure mode present? or is this just this one guy?... I'm wondering why sunrise would throw out an SB even though it's only recommended because of this? I've never heard of this being a problem on a wings before.. maybe they have been a rash or them or something and I didn't notice it.. I'd probably look at this one guy's packing and stowing technique ... just seems a bit odd to me.. thankfully this one isn't mandatory.. any one else wonder how exactly to cut a line with scissors, excluding the binding tape, remove the stiffener and reattach the piece of cordura without it looking like hell? Use a razor. It shouldn't be difficult at all. Precision. Precision. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gemini 0 #10 April 3, 2008 As the bag left the container one of the lines looped around the main flap. There was a small gap between the seam that held the main flap to the container and where the stiffener in the flap started. The line caught between the seam and the bottom of the stiffener. When the canapy started to deploy it put tension on the main flap and tied the loop to the flap. Reserve was cleanly deployed past the trailing main both times. Jumper has over 5,000 jumps and has not had any packing issues. Long time wings user with multiple wings canopies. Blue skies, Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dmetz 0 #11 April 3, 2008 Thanks, but from what you've described I don't see the relation between that problem and the SB...I must be missing something, right? I'll get mine out when I get home to try to make sense of it._________________________________________ "If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jacketsdb23 49 #12 April 3, 2008 QuoteQuote line was caught under the mid-flap plastic stiffener I'm trying to imagine how that could happen and I can't. Can someone elaborate? +1. I cant too I'm with you guys. I can't picture this.Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen God is Good Beer is Great Swoopers are crazy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #13 April 3, 2008 This sounds very familiar to the thread I was just reading about a performance variable rig that had a problem with lines getting hitched around the mid flap. "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 164 #14 April 4, 2008 Quote Sunrise Rigging just sent out a service bulletin for its mid-flaps of the W1-1EXT, W5-1EXT and W4, as well as a main packing addendum. It's in a .pdf file that I can't upload as an attachment and it's not on their web site yet. Anyone out there can help get the .pdf file uploaded if I send it to you? Here's the cover page text: Date: 31 March 2008 Service Bulletin #: 08325 # of pages: 6 Subject: Mid-flap stiffener update and main packing addendum Status: Recommended Identification: • Recommended: W1-1EXT, W5-1EXT, W4, Background: Following two incidents with the same canopy pilot wherein a small diameter line was caught under the mid-flap plastic stiffener resulting in a main malfunction and line on main to not release from container. Sunrise Manufacturing recommends updating the mid-flap pin protector to increase flexion on the mid-flap. Service Bulletin: This Service Bulletin removes the tip of the plastic stiffener contained in the mid-flap pin protector. Authority: Henri Pohjolainen, President Sunrise Manufacturing Inc. 5260 Fort King Rd. Zephyrhills, FL 33542 (813) 788-1910 Distribution: All registered owners affected by the service bulletin All Sunrise Manufacturing, Inc. Dealers Parachuting Publications There is also photos and directions to complete the work as well as photos of stowing the main canopy lines. Mike Like most, I can't "see" the problem/solution... For those with one in the shop, please see if you can post of pic of what the snag scenario looks like... Also, while the SB is fairly straight forward, I can't say its the most "finished" looking change... Would be nice to see an option to open the first stiches on the binding tape and trap the type 3 under the tape... a simple overstich around the horn would make it clean looking. Interesting that one of their recommended pack methods in the addendum is the old "split-stow" that some of us have used for YEARS!!!! JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #15 April 4, 2008 1. To me it would be more descriptive to call it a main PIN COVER FLAP bulletin, not a MID FLAP bulletin. ... although yes they are part of the same assembly, and Sunrise call it the "mid-flap pin protector" in the main text of the bulletin. 2. Gemini described a situation that seems different from what the bulletin addresses. a)The bulletin modifies the last couple inches at the tip of the pin cover flap. b) The bulletin mentions a line catching "under the mid flap". Given their terminology it isn't quite clear where that happened, especially given the confusion over the mid flap vs. pin cover flap terminology. c) Gemini told about a case where a line apparently caught in the soft fold area where the pin cover flap turns into the mid flap. All a bit unclear to me. 3. Sunrise doesn't make it clear how making the tip of the pin cover flap more flexible will solve whatever problem we're talking about. Sounds like it would just make it easier to have the pin cover flap pop open. (But something unclear to me isn't necessarily unclear to them.) 4. What's different with the stiffeners or construction of just the W1-1EXT, W5-1EXT, & W4 listed in the bulletin? (Not that they have to tell us.) I just like having bulletins give a little bit of real rigging insight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #16 April 4, 2008 I am picturing this in my mind. http://www.sky-adventures.de/Unfall/Bilder-Guta/DSC05705.jpg This link was taken from this thread about a Performance Variable container. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1726796;page=2;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; Now I can't wait to take a look at one of my friends Wings rigs. Here is what I am visualizing in my non rigger mind: if the plastic doesn't run the whole length of the flap then it gives you a soft place in the flap where a line can hitch around and cinch down. The line would have a hard time sliding off because it would cinch the soft part of the flap and would get caught on the larger part of the flap with the plastic. Am I warm??"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gemini 0 #17 April 4, 2008 It is exactly the same problem! By removing the stiffner from the tip of the main pin cover flap, it allows the mid flap to flex more which will move it up and away from the D bag at deployment. This reduces the chance of a line snagging on the mid flap. With the original stiffner in place, the mid flap could not flex out of the way and extended over the D bag. As the D bag deployed, it was moving past the mid flap and the lines would pull past the mid flap as well. The mid flap is the part of the container that holds both the reserve and main pin. The main pin cover flap is the part that folds up and over the main pin; tucks into the mid flap slit. The main pin cover flap is part of the mid flap. The lines were snagging on the mid flap not the pin cover flap. It looks like a good fix. Note that it applies to the smaller container sizes. Blue skies, Jim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
