antonija 0
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Quotebut I'd rather look like a living dork than a dead cool wingsuit flyer.
Your goal is acomplished by this sentence.
What goes around, comes later.
Scoop 0
I'm not flexible enough to bend my legs into my leg straps after putting rig on my shoulders so its the messy place-rig-on-bench-or-hold-low-and-step-through-straps-first technique for me.
usually i put my rig on first somewhere between the 5 and the 10 minute call, mostly i step into straps first, then the rig over my shoulder. and if i put my rig on, thats all of it, fixing straps and the chest-thingy. just how i was taught. i'm one of those ADHD-types that tends to forget things pretty easily, but never in my life have lost anything, just happened to forget because i try to follow a routine..
forgot goggles once, and one time i didnt turn my AAD on, later because i let myself be rushed into things. it was our boogie and i got some mods done on the rig and the slider fixed, so main was (untypically) unpacked when i got to the dropzone (very early in the morning too!)..
if i ever learned something from skydiving, it is the following: dont let yourself be rushed into situations. do things at your own pace, otherwise it might end up in places where you'd never wanted to be in the firrst place.. 
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda
fasted3 0
QuoteQuotebut I'd rather look like a living dork than a dead cool wingsuit flyer.
Your goal is acomplished by this sentence.
Nothing was accomplished by yours.
When do you put on your leg staps format?
2 votes but no explinations. Come on #4s, explain why you use a system that is so flawed.
But what do I know?
wmw999 2,370
Something to consider is that the next time someone falls out of their harness because their chest strap was undone, a similar poll might be written wondering why people put their legstraps on first because it's so much easier to forget your chest strap.
I think that instead of focusing on a single method, maybe a focus on people thinking through what they're doing and why would be more effective.
Can't fix stupid, but ignorant is a different thing.
Oh -- and I put my leg straps on first, and then fasten my chest strap. I have my altimeter on my chest strap, so the chances of forgetting it are pretty doggone small.
Wendy W.
I think that instead of focusing on a single method, maybe a focus on people thinking through what they're doing and why would be more effective.
Can't fix stupid, but ignorant is a different thing.
Oh -- and I put my leg straps on first, and then fasten my chest strap. I have my altimeter on my chest strap, so the chances of forgetting it are pretty doggone small.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
BUBLHED 0
I do it in no specific order. I have walked around with no legstraps, rig hanging on one shoulder whatever.
However: when I mentally say I'm ready. I Always go through a complete "checklist" for my gear. I check altimiter, helmet goggles chest strap legstraps, handles, pilot chute in position and reachable, and finally "balls free check". I repeat this 2-3 times before leaving the aircraft and do the first full check before boarding. Even if I am in a hurry I can do these things while walking to the plane.
I am one of those OCD types I even do this before going to work. Walet,keys,phone,whatever. I have to go so far as to actually touch each item and not just trust my memory.
This works for me because straps first, middle, last, doesn't matter everything will be checked and rechecked multiple times before boarding and on the way to altitiude oh and once more right before jumprun. OCD can sometimes be a blessing.
However: when I mentally say I'm ready. I Always go through a complete "checklist" for my gear. I check altimiter, helmet goggles chest strap legstraps, handles, pilot chute in position and reachable, and finally "balls free check". I repeat this 2-3 times before leaving the aircraft and do the first full check before boarding. Even if I am in a hurry I can do these things while walking to the plane.
I am one of those OCD types I even do this before going to work. Walet,keys,phone,whatever. I have to go so far as to actually touch each item and not just trust my memory.
This works for me because straps first, middle, last, doesn't matter everything will be checked and rechecked multiple times before boarding and on the way to altitiude oh and once more right before jumprun. OCD can sometimes be a blessing.
ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!
Jumpah 0
Scoop, try this...
Extend the leg straps so that they are as wide and long as possible. Make sure they aren't twisted.
Throw the rig over one shoulder and onto your back. Take your other arm and guide your elbow under that side's shoulder strap, then center the rig on your back. At this point the rig is on your back, centered, and the leg straps are not around your legs.
Now drop the rig to your elbows. Reach down with your left hand and grasp the leg strap and slip your left foot through it and onto the ground. You can use your right hand to hold onto another jumper or something for stability. Repeat this with the right hand and right foot (turn 180 degrees and use your left hand on that same stability).
Once the legs are through, stand up straight and give the rig a quick thrust to send it from your elbows up to your shoulders. Tighten chest and leg straps and there you are.
Note...getting the legs straps extended all the way is key.
Extend the leg straps so that they are as wide and long as possible. Make sure they aren't twisted.
Throw the rig over one shoulder and onto your back. Take your other arm and guide your elbow under that side's shoulder strap, then center the rig on your back. At this point the rig is on your back, centered, and the leg straps are not around your legs.
Now drop the rig to your elbows. Reach down with your left hand and grasp the leg strap and slip your left foot through it and onto the ground. You can use your right hand to hold onto another jumper or something for stability. Repeat this with the right hand and right foot (turn 180 degrees and use your left hand on that same stability).
Once the legs are through, stand up straight and give the rig a quick thrust to send it from your elbows up to your shoulders. Tighten chest and leg straps and there you are.
Note...getting the legs straps extended all the way is key.
chuckakers 422
I don't put on any gear unless I put it on all the way. If I put on my rig, I fasten all the straps. If I put on my helmet, I fasten it. It's a pretty sure-fire way to never forget to fasten anything.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX
D-10855
Houston, TX
I'm with the above. If I put any kit on for a boarding, even if before the boarding call, I put it all on, or at least get it all with me.
Rig goes over my shoulders first and then down to my elbows to get the leg straps on. Tighten leg straps, then do my chest strap. Then left glove and alti, then right glove, then helmet (full face).
Don't see the point of starting to gear up if you aren't going to do it properly!!
My opinion anyway..
Rig goes over my shoulders first and then down to my elbows to get the leg straps on. Tighten leg straps, then do my chest strap. Then left glove and alti, then right glove, then helmet (full face).
Don't see the point of starting to gear up if you aren't going to do it properly!!
My opinion anyway..
Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic).
I voted #3 because that is my standard procedure, but have occasionally done #4.
I put my cheststrap on first, because I have been known to forget it. I wear my legstraps tight, so it is noticeable when they are not on. *they make walking a little difficult when tight*
The times where my legstraps were not on right away was due to spending too much time dirt diving, and then rushing to the plane. .. rig on, cheststrap on, start walking to plane, stop, legstraps on, then on the plane. If I have my rig on early, then I sometimes will have the legstraps loose, but not off, then tightem them in the pre boarding area. When they are loose, it nags on the back of my mind until they are nice and snug.
I put my cheststrap on first, because I have been known to forget it. I wear my legstraps tight, so it is noticeable when they are not on. *they make walking a little difficult when tight*
The times where my legstraps were not on right away was due to spending too much time dirt diving, and then rushing to the plane. .. rig on, cheststrap on, start walking to plane, stop, legstraps on, then on the plane. If I have my rig on early, then I sometimes will have the legstraps loose, but not off, then tightem them in the pre boarding area. When they are loose, it nags on the back of my mind until they are nice and snug.
CLICK HERE! new blog posted 9/21/08
CSA #720
CSA #720
DSE 5
I didn't vote, but my method outside a wingsuit, is to put shoulders on first, then bend my legs through legstraps.
In a wingsuit it's the same, but there is a different reasoning behind it.
As Wendy suggested, fixating on why some do something isn't the efficient approach, IMO. Fixating on how consistent we are in our own methods is the more applicable approach, IMO.
Or do we need a BSR regarding whether legs or arms go into the harness first?
jimmytavino 16
i never "Undo" my legstraps
just loosen them all the way...when taking off my rig...
To don my rig, i always...
open the reserve flap, check that the cypres is on...and reserve pin is seated, and the rigger thread is undamaged.. close the flap.
open the main pin flap. check for 'blue in the window" of the bridle and check that the main pin is well seated, and the closing loop is NOT worn...
THEN....
Step into the right side legstrap loop, leaving it loose for the moment.
stick my right arm into the harness and hoist the rig onto my back...
let the container slide as low as possible while bending my left leg back, and sticking my left foot into the left side legstrap loop and then hoisting the whole rig back Up onto my shoulders,,,then shoot the left arm into the harness under the left side main lift web and hoist the whole thing well solid ,,, onto my back...
at that point I thread and secure the cheststrap and then bend over and tighten BOTH legstraps.... to the Max...
...clear my wing clips and clip each side. don my wrist altimeter ( left hand) and lastly place my swoop cord loops OVER the alti, and over the back of my right hand...
same deal EVERY time...
check 3 connection points and PC handle before boarding ( to be sure that it's THERE,, and that the PC material is well stowed away in the spandex BOC)
Check everything again prior to exit..
ASK for a main only,,,, pin check, IF i've been seated in any way which had the main container rubbing against a seat or the aircraft walls or bulkheads...
seems to work, for me...
jt
yarak 0
QuoteI didn't vote, but my method outside a wingsuit, is to put shoulders on first, then bend my legs through legstraps.
In a wingsuit it's the same, but there is a different reasoning behind it.
As Wendy suggested, fixating on why some do something isn't the efficient approach, IMO. Fixating on how consistent we are in our own methods is the more applicable approach, IMO.
Or do we need a BSR regarding whether legs or arms go into the harness first?
I know you are joking about that last line but i'm afraid its where this sport is going. It seems people dont like the responsibility of making thier own decisions. Freedom means they would have to think for themselves......god knows we wouldnt want that.
I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down.
fasted3 0
QuoteI didn't vote, but my method outside a wingsuit, is to put shoulders on first, then bend my legs through legstraps.
In a wingsuit it's the same, but there is a different reasoning behind it.
As Wendy suggested, fixating on why some do something isn't the efficient approach, IMO.
Actually, I was fixating on why some do NOT do something. One little detail on putting on your gear that is pretty important if you want to SAVE YOUR LIFE.
Fixating on how consistent we are in our own methods is the more applicable approach, IMO.
Fair enough. Consistancy is an important aspect of what I am trying to convey here.
Or do we need a BSR regarding whether legs or arms go into the harness first?
You wouldn't think so, would ya?
But did you ever think somebody would jump out of an airplane with their leg straps off?
I didn't.
But it did happen, and apparently, it is a problem that has happened before.
To you, in fact, or did I read that part wrong?
If not, please elaborate on your jump.
Why did it happen?
How could it have been prevented?
I'm not trying to pick any fights here, but I was touched by the recent needless fatality that proves that this topic should be addressed. Does anybody disagree with my assessment that this should NEVER have happened, or that it should NEVER happen again?
I will not appologize for using the word NEVER.
This should NEVER happen, and if I have anything to do with it, will NEVER happpen again.
OK, so why should you listen to me?
As has been pointed out, I don't have the most jump numbers.
Maybe I am just some loudmouth that thinks he's too good to ever make a mistake.
That is not my point.
I am fully capable of forgetting ANYTHING.
So how did I manage to put on my gear properly throughout my commercial diving career, making thousands of dives, and NEVER having a gear issue?
See attached pic.
Let me assure you that the gear you see is far more difficult to put on RIGHT, EVERY TIME, than putting on my rig.
So how do the 'pros' do it?
Leaving things to 'remember' to do later?
Or devising a plan that prevents making mistakes?
It can be done.
I see some posts above that make me believe those folks will never make a (leg strap) mistake.
I see others that I'm not so sure.
If necessary, I would devise a routine that required kissing the tire on the airplane before I got on it.
If that's what it takes to get me on the plane ready to jump out of it without forgetting something, I would do it. (Not yet, thankfully.)
I don't care if your plan has you putting on your stuff in any particular order.
But devise a plan, and stick to it.
Next person to jump out without their leg straps is gonna be in trouuuubbbblllllllleeeeee!
Don't let it be you.
Now on to chest straps.
edited to add attachment.
go figure
But what do I know?
DSE 5
Yes. it happened to me. Differences in MY case were;
-it was my first wingsuit jump. And as a result of that jump, I didn't jump a wingsuit again for quite a while. I saw Dan's wingsuit and realized I could have easily been in his slot not so long ago.
you ask how it happened to me? Mental overload.
-I had 473 PREVIOUS jumps. I had nearly 500 opportunities to screw it up, and never had. I screwed up other things instead.
When I first put on the wingsuit, I had more belly skydives than you have total to date. Do you think you're better, more heads-up, less prone to accident than me? Remember that you thought you were pretty good back when you put on that wingsuit...
Did a BSR keep you from wingsuiting before you had 200 jumps? Of course not. You went early in spite of advice to not do it. Go read some of your old posts, see if you still feel the same way now.
In this post, you advocated (indirectly) that the BSR's don't matter. Has this incident changed your outlook now that you're on the other side of that fence? Skydivers who don't observe the BSR's don't get to pass judgement on those that might put their legstraps on in a different order. It's a rule. Look it up.
You ask why you were able to make "thousands of dives" in the water without a gear problem...well...in "thousands" lies your answer.
Part of the BSR is there to try to ensure that skydivers have at least a minimal amount of muscle memory. 200 skydives is barely enough, IMO, for camera or wingsuit.
It'll happen again, Ed. No matter how many safety devices, vigilant loaders, nosy instructors, cameras in airplanes, or TSA security checks...at least a dozen of our comrades will die somewhere in the world in 2009 as a result of an error. Count on it. Statistics don't lie. FWIW, look at your own jump progression and see what the statistics say about you. Use that information to see that you don't become part of the statistics.
Rule One-Skydiving is dangerous and not everyone can do it. It requires a heads-up mindset.
Rule Two-No matter how many rules, AADs, MARDs, training, BSR's, you can't change Rule One. If you tell yourself you can, then you're fooling yourself.
All we can do is our best to look out for each other, to be repetitive in our safety (without gaining the complacency that often comes with repetition), and do our best to be vigilant for ourselves and others.
We don't need more stinkin' rules about our gear. We need to first begin observing the rules we've already got.
yarak 0
remember the guy that forgot his leg straps was suffering from task overload. You are familiar with this as a diver. this guy had a bunch of new equipment and new techniques he was burdened with. He was so consumed with the new that he took the old and seemingly obvious for granted. That is normal for any new experience. You will never do away with mistakes caused by the pressure and stress of task overloading. And I wouldnt worry about this becoming a common thing. I believe it will remain very isolated and a minute contributer to the fataity reports. A thread about whether people step into leg straps or stretch to put them on is just about the most non informative thread i have ever seen. Why not ask if people zip their jumpsuit before they board the plane or just before they jump? I'm sure the responses would be riveting
wow i'm editing this now to just say ditto to DSE's post. It wasnt there when I was typing this. I cant believe I agree with DSE
I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down.
fasted3 0
QuoteWe don't need more stinkin' rules about our gear. We need to first begin observing the rules we've already got.
Yea, I want a BSR about this... Did I really say that???
I am proposing a rule.
A self imposed rule.
It goes like this.
Never get on a plane without first making sure that you have your gear on right.
I live by this rule.
Feel free to make your own rules on this matter.
I of course should never be listened to, because I once broke a RECOMMENDATION.
Sorry for boring everybody with my worthless posts.
Carry on.
But what do I know?
DSE 5
A-Let's get this straight
"R" in BSR is "Requirement" not "Recommendation
B-the self-imposed rule has been commonplace for maybe...40 years now?
Have you never broken a rule?
I can think of at least one....
And the ONE requirement I know you broke has carried a 100% relevance to 100% of recent wingsuit fatalities.
Everyone eventually screws up. The question is one of severity, and what they learn from it.
Basic Safety Requirement or personal rule... people are people. Mistakes occur.
If the thread gets people thinking about the subject, even if it's a "can you believe what this guy said..." then it's a valuable thread, I think.
"R" in BSR is "Requirement" not "Recommendation
B-the self-imposed rule has been commonplace for maybe...40 years now?
Have you never broken a rule?
I can think of at least one....
And the ONE requirement I know you broke has carried a 100% relevance to 100% of recent wingsuit fatalities.
Everyone eventually screws up. The question is one of severity, and what they learn from it.
Basic Safety Requirement or personal rule... people are people. Mistakes occur.
If the thread gets people thinking about the subject, even if it's a "can you believe what this guy said..." then it's a valuable thread, I think.
Jumpah 0
A BSR is a Basic Safety Requirement, not a "recommendation".
fasted3 0
You are right.
For the record, I am not proposing a BSR on how to put on your rig.
Sorry for confusing the sarcasm impared.
For the record, I am not proposing a BSR on how to put on your rig.
Sorry for confusing the sarcasm impared.
But what do I know?
QuoteI'm not flexible enough to bend my legs into my leg straps after putting rig on my shoulders so its the messy place-rig-on-bench-or-hold-low-and-step-through-straps-first technique for me.
+1. It's quite unlikely you will forget the leg straps with this technique for the unflexible.
But then again I'm still a n00b :p
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