what should I do about this reserve?

[hudsonderek 0]

I just had my friend pack my reserve in my nearly new (around ten jumps) mirage G3 M3X (reserve tray is for about a 160 sized reserve, and main tray is sized for about a 120). My friend just got his riggers certificate so he's pretty new at it. I've posted pictures of the pack job and I like my friend and all, but it just seems like a sloppy pack job. it's lumpy in places I don't think it should be, extra tight in some parts and loose in others. the reserve is a raven dash-M 150, FYI. When he handed it to me, the reserve D handle was not in it's Velcro and dangling. I'm not trying to be mean to my friend, but I agree with Frank Lloyd wrights "form follows function" basically meaning if something looks good it works well, and vise versa, if it functions well it looks good. I'm sure the parachute will open fine, but there's this little bit of uncertainty in my mind, due to the sloppiness, that something could happen. what should I do? should I get a new pack job from a more experienced rigger? should I ask for a refund on this pack job? I don't want to insult the guy, but this thing just looks like dog do do in my opinion and I feel crappy for having spent $60 on something I don't feel comfortable jumping. any suggestions? any other riggers in Maine that have a good reputation?

[stratostar 5]

For one thing those photos suck and don't tell the whole story. It's not uncommon to have wrinkels like that on some H/C's and YES it depends on the rigger at times. The photo of the bottom of the reserve tray with the aad buldging out is also common on some rigs, can be worse by cramming in a reserve that is to big for the pack tray or having to much canopy in the bottom of the container.

Bottom line is if you don't feel good about jumping this guys pack job, then don't jump it and get it repacked by someone you do trust, however in all fairness man up and express your feeling to your buddy and why not give him a second chance to do it over? Every rigger who just got a ticket has to start some place, maybe it's the first time he has packed a G-3 and needs a few under his belt to make them look pretty, wouldn't be the first time this has happened.

The first few wings rigs I packed looked totally like shit around the pop top, and I have a ton of other pop top packs, with that said, each container has it's own little tricks to "get it right" many times the manual your required to follow has some of the most shitty photos and images in them we're to be trying to understand, fucking things look like 3rd graders took them!

So deal with your friend like a man, he diserves the feed back good & bad, that is what will make him a better rigger, not you nit picking a pack job on the fourms. If you can't work it out with him to your liking, there are a number of lofts you can ship your rig to or drive to the some place that has a loft on the dz.

Or better yet go get your own ticket and find out for yourself.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[diablopilot 2]

The photos don't show much, but I don't see anything unsafe.

If you've got a 150 Dash M in that container, it's going to be a bit "soft" meaning the wrinkles are gonna be hard to make go away.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[MagicGuy 0]

I'm not a rigger so take my opinion for what it's worth...

The pictures aren't that great, and as said before, don't really show the entire picture. I will say, though, that the wrinkles and whatnot seem like a common occurance on any rig. I highly doubt that they are anything to worry about. Same goes for the bottom of the pack tray. Looks normal to me.

My opinion is based on being a packer and seeing lots of different rigs. There is no "perfect" looking packjob. You could have an identical rig, identical reserve and identical packjob and it could still look different.

I guess I would say.. a rigger has to do a lot to get that ticket. They wouldn't have gotten it if for any reason, someone thought that they weren't worthy of saving someone's life. I agree with the previous posted who said that you should 1.) get it repacked if you feel uncomfortable and 2.) address your concerns to the rigger who packed your reserve.

Good luck!

[RIGGER 0]

I think that you are taking an ugly action on your friend / rigger.

You went to a NEW rigger which at this point of time might not know all the "tricks" for each rig, it will come with work & time & going to the PIA 09.

You should talk to your friend / rigger about how you feel with his pack job.

Does all is about the $60 you paid or you feel UNSAFE - 2 different points.

If you feel UNSAFE - STOP jumping it NOW !!! If it is all about the $ 60 you paid - talk to the rigger.

Friendship is much more then $ 60 & harder to keep.

The BIG mistake that yourself & your friend / rigger did is you jumping & he packed for you a Micro Dash M 150 loaded to 1.4

This reserve is well overloaded & might be unsafe for you at deployment/speeds/altitude & with a great chance to stall at landing.

You are a pilot & you know what means to over load a wing beyond the spec.

Be Safe & Smart !!!!

[DougH 270]

I had the same thought, but aren't the dash M was a different beast from the original micro ravens?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[parafredo 0]

One thing that you should not jump with is the slider plastic ball on your reserve closing flap.This could be a snag to catch one or more lines on opening. I have seen that happening on a reserve ride in France and landing was not so beautiful....Personnally, when I do repack and I see such a slider holder, I remove it and I do some tabs on front risers.

[hudsonderek 0]

I'm more concerned about he safety aspect than the money. the thing I partially think is "he incorrectly installed the D ring?! what else might be going on that I can't see? I'm fine with the wrinkles, I've had them before, I can tell from the pictures, but then again I have the rig here as well, that it looks like too much of the canopy was stuffed to the bottom. If it was your first time packing this rig, wouldn't you want to do it over and over until you got it right? yeah, you'd lose money on your first pack job, but at least you'd know what's going on for your others. it took him about two hours to pack this thing, that's connecting the canopy to the container, clearing the lines, and then packing it. I knew a guy that had a rigging business and packed a few reserves a day and still it took him two hours to pack a rig. look at the picture again, can you see the secondary main riser flap cover, on the left hand side of the rig it makes a wavy curve, not straight. and the bottom it's pretty clear to see that there's lose material on the left side and it's tighter on the right. I'll see if he wants to repack this thing, but I think I might end up with the same thing again. Personally, if I packed this and it didn't look right, I'd redo it until it did.. but then again, I repack my main if it doesn't look neat in the D bag.

[likestojump 3]

like everyone said - if you don't feel comfortable, explain to him, and offer him an option of redoing. perhaps in front of you.

as far as wrinkles - quite common on G4 container. if you read their manual they give ALOT of tips during each step of the packjob, and even done right, they are not ALL gone. But it does help.

the bulging AAD - since a 150 -M should pack smaller than a PDR160 - check out if the top corners of the reserve tray are ALOT softer - it could be that he made the molar ears very small and thus the bulk of the canopy is on the bottom and pushing teh aad. When you are new, it may take alot of tries to get the canopy in the freebag just right for it to fit well. At least it did for me. nothing wrong with 3hr packjobs - as long as you achieve the proper result and don't halfass ANYTHING.

cya

[DougH 270]

Quote

If it was your first time packing this rig, wouldn't you want to do it over and over until you got it right?

Cosmetics don't allways go hand in hand with saftey. I bring my rigs to people that I trust to give me a safe pack job. I think sometimes one guy gives me a packjob that looks nicer and feels better on my back, but I trust all of them or I wouldn't use them in the first place.

And no I wouldn't want my rigger folding my reserve over and over and over so he could practice the cosmetics. That is wear and tear, I don't even want to get it folded up three times a year but I don't have a choice.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[SuperGirl 0]

Thanks:) it is all pushed to the bottom and the top is VERY soft. I think I'll have him repack it in front of me, if he says he'll do it. heres another picture.


[this should have been hudsonderek posting this, not supergirl... we're sharing a computer]

[chutingstar 1]

It just needs a little bulk management, but is really not that bad. You could ask him to do it again and follow some of the tips on Mirage's web site or my web site.

But I would let him do it without the distraction of you watching. Let him get the job done without the added pressure and distraction of you watching over his shoulder.

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[ficus 0]

Mike G's Mirage tips:

http://www.chutingstar.com/archives/00000126.html

[RIGGER 0]

The Raven Dash M was for max. 1.3 wing loading at sea level & it move lower when jumping at higher field elevation DZ's, this was based on the way it was built & sewn but it is the same air foil as the Super Raven.

Many feels that 1.3 is too high for these reserves & better stay at 1.1 or less.

They do stall like the Micro Raven does & I know that from a skydiver first hand story.

Be Safe !!!

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

dude, if you're not comfortable, don't jump it... you don't necessarily need to confront him, just take the $60 hit and get it re-done.

As a newer rigger who has only really packed for myself and a few friends, I have run into the occasional rig that I'm not proficient enough to do well... almost always because the reserve is two sizes too big, but if you're really good you can make it work. one time it was a reflex, and I admit I just don't have the technique down for that rig... the pop-top doesn't bother me and racer's are fine, but the reflex is much more tricky. I was packing it for a friend, and when I got done, it didn't look good and the pull force was way too high. In the end, I had to apologize to my friend and tell him that he simply needed to take his rig to someone with more experience with the reflex system; but I also had the decency to not charge.

Personal opinion, having friends pack your reserve isn't always a good idea unless you've seen their packing abilities firsthand. When a rigger isn't a friend, they consider it a buisiness deal and as such quality is expected... some friends might consider it "practice" and not put in quite the same effort. Sad, but true. Not saying this is the case in your specific situation, but I've seen it happen that way.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[peckerhead 0]

As usual Stratostar is right on the money.

Wrinkles don't mean shit. Stick the handle in the pocket and go jump. If you want a pretty rig buy an Infinity

[brits17 0]

I'd jump it until the repack is due again. As a rigger, his ethics should not hand you back the rig unless he's 100% sure its safe to jump. Let him know your concerns and it should be noted next time.

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[riggerrob 558]

It looks airworthy, but ugly.

Frankly, it looks like the Mirage my apprentice packed a couple of days ago.
So I stretched it out and repacked it more pretty.

The bulging AAD is a sign of bulk distribution that is "less than perfect."
Gently suggest that your friend read Mike Gruwell's hints on finer points of packing Mirages.

Wrinkles are common on Mirage side flaps. Only the very best of riggers can pack tight Mirages ... or tight Talons ... or tight name-any-rig ... without wrinkles in the side flaps.
The bad news is that once side flaps have sat with wrinkles overnight, you are stuck with the wrinkles forever.

Was tie-die fabric introduced to hide wrinkles????

The only life-threatening flaw to the pack job is that ugly piece of bungee cord across thetop. Consign the bungee cord to the trash can before jumping.

[hudsonderek 0]

I hope the wrinkles come out:( I talked with him (the guy who packed it) today and he agreed to repack it without hesitation. Hopefully he does a better job the second time around.

[packertom 0]

a lot of mirages will come out with wrinkles.. it's kind of the nature of the reserve tray and a product of the pretty deep wedge shape that the design requires ... once a rigger learns the tricks of packing a mirage the wrinkles tend to go away... the lump of the AAD is a result of a tight pack job without a "slot" being dug out to fit around the AAD.. this is once again a technique that comes with practice.. he's a new rigger and some of the cosmetic nice to have skills will come with time.. an ugly pack job is not necessarily an unsafe pack job... pull the reserve out and look at the stows, look at the lines, and look at the folds.. that's where it really matters... if you have a problem with the cosmetic appearance of the rig that's cool-- address it with your rigger... thankfully you didn't bring up his name here.. but if I were him, I might be a bit perturbed with you calling him out in a public venue without giving him the chance to first defend himself or clean it up for you.. just my 2 cents... having said that, in all fairness, it is a little ugly and does have some room for cosmetic work.... the D-ring not being seated isn't really a big deal.. if you see it hanging out.. stick it back in... you should be able to figure out how to do that without a rigger's help... I have on occasion forgotten to mate the D ring to the harness during the sealing/docmentation stage of the pack job.. always inspect a rig thoroughly when you get it back from repack.. one thing that you should always and I mean always check is that the reserve ripcord is routed properly through the RSL rings if you have an RSL installed.. I don't think that there is a working rigger out there who hasn't at least once inserted a pin and noticed later that they'd missed the RSL rings... anyway just my 2 or 3 cents...

[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com
What's YOUR Zombie Plan?

[packertom 0]

btw... dude.. lose that bungee on the reserve flap.. that thing is a fatality report waiting to happen... seriously.. if it's that big a deal to you, get a removable slider, but anchoring your main to your rig regates the entire cutaway system.. it's dangerous and unnecessary.. every time I see one it gives me the willies.. do some research.. I know of at least one confirmed fatality where this type of modification was the proximate cause... think about it.. you stow your slider there, then for some reason you have to chop... now your main is trailing in a pile of shit directly above where your reserve is trying to launch from... my advice, take it or leave it.. get rid of that bungee and either pull the slider behind your head or get a removable system... or I could be wrong.. what do I know anyway?

[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com
What's YOUR Zombie Plan?

[JohnDeere 0]

I could tell what you do and dont know, but it is a public forum.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[peregrinerose 0]

I would suggest going to www.parachutemanuals.com and look up the Mirage Owners manual (or perhaps you have your own?) Look at the last picture of the owners manual instructions for closing the reserve container. You will note that in the manufacturers own directions, that last picture looks like crap, with accordion looking wrinkles down both side flaps.

Going behind your rigger's back like this rather than talking with him directly first is really classless, though, regardless of whether or not he ever finds out.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[hudsonderek 0]

so getting the opinion of people more knowledgeable about such matters before I approach my rigger is classless? I should probably make less informed decision in the future and remain classy.

[billvon 2,383]

> so getting the opinion of people more knowledgeable about such
> matters before I approach my rigger is classless?

Asking other people about his work before you ask him about his work is classless.

Imagine the following. You sell someone a canopy and make a math mistake, charge them $980 instead of the $890 you quoted them. They just pay the $980, then get on the forum and ask "so do you think this guy is ripping me off?"

Would you prefer they ask you about it first?