0
Squeak

Lazy Bag

Recommended Posts

Not a bad idea or design. I can see possiblities of line dump. I don't see any huge advantage as far as ease of packing though. The biggest complaint I hear is getting the canopy in the bag. Most people get the smallest cotainer and them try to cram a large canopy into it. That bag design will not address that issue. It only address line stowage. I can see some advantage to that design for CRW or even for the swoopers who do Hop and Pops...it has a greater potential for on heading openings than the traditional rubber band stows.......Just my 2 cents worth on it. I'm not knocking the bag at all. I'm all for innovations and new ideas. It's the only way we can progress the sport.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


It's clever and the engineering looks good. But:

It takes more time to put the lines into a neat figure eight than it does to neatly stow them in rubber bands (sized so you don't double wrap) and means pulling the rig towards you instead of walking to the rig so you need a packing mat to avoid excessive rig wear; and a change which increase both packing time and tool count doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

The gain is that it eliminates rubber band replacement. Tube stows/calf castration bands/silibands/etc. last a long time so that's not much of an improvement.

I wouldn't worry about line dump (tail pockets work fine for terminal BASE jumps) or reliability (reserve freebags work the same way) if the system was used carefully.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I saw one of these at Ramblers last year. The person jumping it said he'd had no problems with it and is one of the most senior jumpers on the DZ, so I respect his opinion. I'm not sure how long he'd had it at that point, but from the way he talked about it, I got the impression he'd put a not insignificant number of jumps on it.

The point about getting the canopy in the bag is true - it won't help there, but *my* biggest complaint about packing is dealing with those rubber bands, and this bag design certainly addresses that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It takes me half that time to bag the canopy and stow my lines with rubberbands.

Between all the extra flaps, stifeners and pockets, and those long locking thingys, it looks like twice as many parts as a regular D-bag. Tiwce as many things to break.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I saw one of these at Ramblers last year. The person jumping it said he'd had no problems with it and is one of the most senior jumpers on the DZ, so I respect his opinion. I'm not sure how long he'd had it at that point, but from the way he talked about it, I got the impression he'd put a not insignificant number of jumps on it.

The point about getting the canopy in the bag is true - it won't help there, but *my* biggest complaint about packing is dealing with those rubber bands, and this bag design certainly addresses that.



You want to learn technique from an efficient packer.

Roll the bag flap around the bag mouth past the rubber band to compress the pack job and then thread the band through the grommet. To stow each bight form an arrow around the bight with your strong hand thumb and index finger, use that to thread the bight through the rubber band which you open with your weak hand, releasing the rubber band, holding the bight with your weak hand, pull out your strong hand, and let go.

This is all easier to demonstrate than describe but it shouldn't take more than 1-2 seconds per stow to get the lines in the rubber bands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

You want to learn technique from an efficient packer.



My issue with rubber bands has nothing to do with speed or the ease with which I can stow the lines. I have no trouble getting the parachute in the bag, getting the lines in the stows. The issue is the effect that repeated stretching the stows and slipping my fingers in and out in order to stow the lines slowly but surely damages the skin. Drier climates like that in Eloy tends to exacerbate the problem. On an average weekend, it's not so bad, but on a busy weekend, or a 1 or two week trip, I typically end up with cracks, bleeding, tears and other rather uncomfortable problems.

If you can come up with a packing technique that doesn't require my touching the rubber bands, great. I prefer to pack my parachute for a number of reasons and I choose to work through the pain and discomfort, but if there's an option that allows me to avoid that, then that's an attractive option.

Note that I don't yet have a lazy bag, but I have considered getting one, but I'll probably jump my new rig un-modified for a while longer and discuss it further with my local riggers before I take that step.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Design has been around for about 5 years, i remember thinking about trying to get one when i wanted to buy an Odyssey in 2003. There have been previous discussions on the subject under the term Berger bag or stowless d-bag.
There is a belgian rigger who makes them, i looked into it a nwhile ago (january) as some friends of mine from Spa were jumping them at the Castellon new years boogie, but I dont have the link anymore as I'm happy with my tube stows. Looked easy enough to handle for tight packjobs though. Woudl be interesting to get some stats on it, how many jumps were put on them, how they are affected by wear (stiffeners esp.) etc., any problems yaddayadda.

Anyone care to share their experiences? Should have asked Derek last week... Dayum! ;)

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

You want to learn technique from an efficient packer.



My issue with rubber bands has nothing to do with speed or the ease with which I can stow the lines. I have no trouble getting the parachute in the bag, getting the lines in the stows. The issue is the effect that repeated stretching the stows and slipping my fingers in and out in order to stow the lines slowly but surely damages the skin. Drier climates like that in Eloy tends to exacerbate the problem. On an average weekend, it's not so bad, but on a busy weekend, or a 1 or two week trip, I typically end up with cracks, bleeding, tears and other rather uncomfortable problems.

If you can come up with a packing technique that doesn't require my touching the rubber bands, great. I prefer to pack my parachute for a number of reasons and I choose to work through the pain and discomfort, but if there's an option that allows me to avoid that, then that's an attractive option.

Note that I don't yet have a lazy bag, but I have considered getting one, but I'll probably jump my new rig un-modified for a while longer and discuss it further with my local riggers before I take that step.



Some people that work full time packing choose to wear gloves.
"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sun Path tested that concept on Javelin Odysseys circa 2003, but never put it into production. They did loan some to a competitive team for a few thousand jumps. The team reported few problems.

However, I suspect that the bag would be problematic if you installed a different-sized (volume) canopy. Remember that some tuck tabs only have tolerances in the 1/16 of an inch range.
Too small a canopy would result in too little tension and line dump.
Too tight a canopy might pop tuck tabs prematurely, again line dump.

Besides, tuck tabs are last week's fashion.
If you want this week's fashion, buy a magnetic d-bag from Advance Seven in France.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

The issue is the effect that repeated stretching the stows and slipping my fingers in and out in order to stow the lines slowly but surely damages the skin. Drier climates like that in Eloy tends to exacerbate the problem.



Some kind of hand cream may be in order...? :P
***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

The issue is the effect that repeated stretching the stows and slipping my fingers in and out in order to stow the lines slowly but surely damages the skin. Drier climates like that in Eloy tends to exacerbate the problem.



Some kind of hand cream may be in order...? :P


Careful with that - the glycerine present in most hand creams can cause false positives on explosive detectors when they swab your rig.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Did you try clicking on the link only two posts above yours? Crazy


Have you tried? Those pages has been removed from Sunpath.com. I could not find any price. Have you? Show me! B|
Umm the link is for a Belgian site not sunpath. you were looking at the wrong post:P
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

Umm the link is for a Belgian site not sunpath. you were looking at the wrong postTongue



There is no price there either. Your move. B|
why you gotta be like, that.
The question was does anyone know where to buy them.
The link provided is a plae to purchase, any further info can be gleaned by emailing the manufacturers
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0