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yarak 0
god you are so right! what was i thinking! 
I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down.
yarak 0
QuoteQuoteI would say about 30 mistakes dangerous.
Not everyone who died in 2008 died because they made a mistake. Sometimes accidents just happen, even to highly intelligent, well-trained, safety-conscious people.
you are right. not all made mistakes, I didnt mean that line as literal as you took it. it was more to support a point. But fasted is right as well most of them did make mistakes, just as any of us could.
I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down.
Quotegod you are so right! what was i thinking!
LOOK everybody at the 2 skyride bitches making stupid ass coments
You guy are so cool![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
I cant wait to come jump with ignorant fucking fools. 
Nothing opens like a Deere!
You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!
You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!
yarak 0
i'm sorry, do you have any input relative to the topic? what exactly do think was stupid about my post? Did I say something that you dont believe to be true? Please elaborate. Do you have an opinion or did you just get on here to blast filthy language and PA's?
I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down.
Yea becuase you to were really looking to discuss a real topic insead of your typical slander and ignorant coments. Oh and you have absolutelly no damn space to be talking about PA's They have become standard in most of your post latetly!
Have a good day!
Nothing opens like a Deere!
You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!
You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!
"Skydiving badass" sounds like you are hooked up with an image of yourself that seems more important than the love of skydiving, no one out there thinks skydivers are "badass" except drunk skydivers with "mad skillz ",,, general public thinks we are idiots killing ourselves with open parachutes....just look at the last three years,,,sad really
smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083
FB # - 1083
stitch 0
Maybe I don't get it, especially with my still relative level of inexperience. While Yakar's comments may be seen as insensitive and sarcastic, I fail to see where he wasn't being truthful. Maybe the responsible skydivers of DZ.com can educate me.
As I see it, for every 10 responsible skydivers there is at least 1 irresponsible one. And whether you choose to believe it or not, there are those that skydive just so they can brag to others. There is more than enough evidence of this on YouTube and Skydivingmovies.com.
People can continue to lecture and preach about BSRs, DZ landing rules, and experience levels before downsizing or entering a certain disipline for as long as they want. But as statistics have shown it will probably do little to change anything. We will always have tools that either ignore the rules or interpret them to their own meaning.
As I've seen it, after a few years in the sport you either accept a certain level of callousness towards fatalities or you quit because you can't handle the aspect of another friend dying.
As I see it, for every 10 responsible skydivers there is at least 1 irresponsible one. And whether you choose to believe it or not, there are those that skydive just so they can brag to others. There is more than enough evidence of this on YouTube and Skydivingmovies.com.
People can continue to lecture and preach about BSRs, DZ landing rules, and experience levels before downsizing or entering a certain disipline for as long as they want. But as statistics have shown it will probably do little to change anything. We will always have tools that either ignore the rules or interpret them to their own meaning.
As I've seen it, after a few years in the sport you either accept a certain level of callousness towards fatalities or you quit because you can't handle the aspect of another friend dying.
"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"
yarak 0
Hot damn! thank you! you get it! 
Thanks for reading my post correctly and with a open mind.
A+ for reading comprehension
I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down.
gregpso 1
The tandems fatalities were the ones that upset me the most reading about them last year. 2 of them were just botched landings under perfectly good canopies that killed their passengers. However everyone knows what they are getting into you read the documenTATION and sigh the waiver. Back when i was jumping round ones once the opening was complete I use to say to myself "well i am right now" A nice gentle landing into a paddock.(as long as you faced into the wind ) Now with the ram airs the danger is only starting upon opening.
However on the 4 ram air tandems I did last year it was great fun flying the canopy rather than floating down. If swooping and low turns and downsizing could be stopped (and they will not be and I am not saying they should be) the stats would be excellent. After all now days we have AADs Shyhooks RSLs.
However on the 4 ram air tandems I did last year it was great fun flying the canopy rather than floating down. If swooping and low turns and downsizing could be stopped (and they will not be and I am not saying they should be) the stats would be excellent. After all now days we have AADs Shyhooks RSLs.
I tend to be a bit different. enjoyed my time in the sport or is it an industry these days ??
Stitch beat me to it....
You guys are missing Yarak's point...totally.
That loud "whoosh" was the point passing right over your head.
The "tell it like it is" approach is very refreshing.
In spite of your feelings about his presentation, not a one of you can say with a straight face that he is wrong. Not a one. So why are you whining? I think because you can't handle that slap-in-the-face of truth. Maybe you are responding emotionally rather than intellectually...you may want to reassess that.
I don't often agree with Yarak, but he is spot-on on this one.
You who mentioned Slyride....what a lame, low blow. Please explain how Slyride ties into this. Would you like some salt with that?
He's also right in that in the big scheme of things worldwide, not a bad year if you subscribe to the idea of "acceptable collateral damage." Zero would be great. Unlikely, but a noble goal to strive for and if you are not doing your part to drive for that goal, please do all the youngsters a favor and take up some other sport. You are not providing them with a healthy respect for the sport.
You guys are missing Yarak's point...totally.
That loud "whoosh" was the point passing right over your head.
The "tell it like it is" approach is very refreshing.
In spite of your feelings about his presentation, not a one of you can say with a straight face that he is wrong. Not a one. So why are you whining? I think because you can't handle that slap-in-the-face of truth. Maybe you are responding emotionally rather than intellectually...you may want to reassess that.
I don't often agree with Yarak, but he is spot-on on this one.
You who mentioned Slyride....what a lame, low blow. Please explain how Slyride ties into this. Would you like some salt with that?
He's also right in that in the big scheme of things worldwide, not a bad year if you subscribe to the idea of "acceptable collateral damage." Zero would be great. Unlikely, but a noble goal to strive for and if you are not doing your part to drive for that goal, please do all the youngsters a favor and take up some other sport. You are not providing them with a healthy respect for the sport.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Jeffwxyz 0
QuoteQuoteI would say about 30 mistakes dangerous.
Not everyone who died in 2008 died because they made a mistake. Sometimes accidents just happen, even to highly intelligent, well-trained, safety-conscious people.
Please don't take this as an attack as I have heard the same thing elsewhere, but I have to disagree in part to this.
We should never accept the idea that accidents "just happen" for no reason.
When people die while skydiving it is because a series of mistakes were made (not just one) and these mistakes can involve several people in an incident.
Again I say that we should never accept the idea that accidents "just happen" for no reason because this is a slippery slope.
If that attitude existed everywhere then stop and think what could happen with our existing level of safety.
Quoteshow some sensitivity. skydiving is full of "things beyond our control" that's the danger, not the fact that we jumped out of a plane.
That is part of "our" problem. There is so much that is in "our" control. When I write "our" I mean not just us as an individual jumper, but how about:
This list could go on and on.
All of the above should be refered to as us, we and our. Because if there are enough mistakes made by any combination of the we are all as good as dead.
This goes back to us as individuals. We must all take a stand and do something when something is unsafe and not just accept it as a fact of life.
beowulf 1
QuoteWhen people die while skydiving it is because a series of mistakes were made (not just one) and these mistakes can involve several people in an incident.
That is not always true. I know of at least two people who made no mistake and were either seriously hurt or died.
Skydiving is NOT safe. It never was safe and never will be. We just learn to manage the risk. Some do better then others.
huge 0
On might argue that the first mistake is to jump out of the plane and toss patch of nylon into the wind hoping it'll save you.QuoteWhen people die while skydiving it is because a series of mistakes were made (not just one) and these mistakes can involve several people in an incident.
Risks and especially unknown risks are part of the sport and we have to live with it.
Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. One must understand that even though risks cannot be completely removed, they can be minimized.Quote# Would people eventually stop trying to be safe if they thought they could die anyway?
# What about accident investigations? Would we stop doing them throughly because we start thinking "He was going to die eventually"?
I try to minimize the risks as far as possible but I do always remember that something unexpected could happen, even if I do everything correctly. If something unexpected does happen, I just hope that others can learn from it and try to minimize that risk I failed to see.
That said, I agree with your general idea that we shouldn't just assume that "things happen". We should still try to learn from those cases when everything was done correctly but shit hit the fan anyway. There is still room for improvement.
ryan_m 0
Just out of curiosity is there anyway to track down how many jumps were made in 2008?
CDRINF 1
Quoteskydiving is full of "things beyond our control" that's the danger, not the fact that we jumped out of a plane
I could not disagree more. The simple fact in skydiving is that when you exit the plane, for all practical purposes you have just committed suicide unless you take active steps to change your fate.
You have control over your gear choices and packing your rig (if you choose to use a packer, you are assuming a risk). You control maintaining your equipment, and control whether you go up. You decide to place your trust in a pilot and plane, you can choose to exit or not, and your actions in the air are on you. You choose where and how to land. True, the idiocy or carelessness of others could be beyond your direct control, but in the larger picture that hardly qualifies as "many things beyond our control".
I agree with the posts above. Accidents never "just happen". Blind fate and freak accidents almost never kill people. It is almost always a chain of mistakes that combine to overwhelm the jumper. Break a link or two in the chain, such as not going on jumps over your ability, or not downsizing too quickly, and you will probably be okay.
On a personal level, skydiving is the ultimate control over your own fate, provided you are truly skydiving and not just acting as human cargo on a tandem.
CDR
labrys 0
QuoteOn a personal level, skydiving is the ultimate control over your own fate, provided you are truly skydiving and not just acting as human cargo on a tandem.
Well.... not every tandem pax is "human cargo" who can't control their own fate:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3474564
Owned by Remi #?
DJL 235
Too many people quit trying because they think things are out of their control. Then when an accident happens they just chalk it up to "shit happens". As Yarak was saying, you want more government oversite? It's already happening with our aircraft. What's next? Everyone needs to learn what the fuck they're doing and hold each other to some higher standards.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher
wmw999 2,382
QFTQuoteYou CAN do everything right and still die.
But think about this:
The overwhelming majority of those that DID die...
DIDN'T do everything right.
We can do better.
Luck favors the prepared.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
erdnarob 1
Going from 18 to 30 fatalities is a 67% increase which is rather alarming. On the other hand according Skydiving Magazine if I am right there is a significative decrease in fatalities involving general aviation. Safety is a touchy matter among skydivers since a majority of us think that they are knowledgeable enough, nothing can happen, equipment is OK...
At the beginning of each season it's always a pain in the neck to convince jumpers to show up at the safety day. There are so many details to cover in different areas. Jumpers participating to that safety day are generally the ones who know the most while those who should come are absent. Any idea to make the jumpers more responsible toward their own safety ?
At the beginning of each season it's always a pain in the neck to convince jumpers to show up at the safety day. There are so many details to cover in different areas. Jumpers participating to that safety day are generally the ones who know the most while those who should come are absent. Any idea to make the jumpers more responsible toward their own safety ?
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.
kallend 1,935
QuoteGoing from 18 to 30 fatalities is a 67% increase which is rather alarming.
before jumping to the conclusion that there is some systematic problem, we first need to establish what the normal fluctuation in annual fatalities is, and see if this variation is outside of the normally expected statistical fluctuation.
I suspect that skydiving fatalities, like deaths due to horse kicks in the Prussian cavalry, follow a Poisson distribution.
Since the average number of US fatalities over the past five years is close to 25, that gives a standard deviation (SD) of 5 for the Poisson, so 30 is only one SD away from the mean.
Until proven otherwise, it's just statistical noise.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
And you're full of shit too. I sense the sarcasm. Get fucked.
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