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Tigerfly

A license jumping camera....

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My husband and I each have about 30 jumps.very newly licensed. He brought home a camera today and said he's going to attach it to his helmet and jump it. [:/]Doesn't sound like it should be our priority right now, but he won't listen to me. :P can you guys throw some good hard evidence my way of the potential risks of jumping with a camera please? Injuries and fatalities that have been attributed to cameras. I know some dropzones won't even allow it until 200 jumps, but I'm not sure on the rules where we jump (skydive city-zhills). I hope they don't allow it! I'm such a mean nagging wife!

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Well, the Feb issue of Parachutist covered this in the "Safety Check" column (page 55).

Have him read it and then tell you why he should ignore it (he shouldn't).

Go to the "Photog & Vid" forum on here. Read the stickies.

Have him explain why he is 'different' or 'special' (he isn't).

The recommendation is a C license (which is 200 jumps, but includes other stuff).
Have him explain why that shouldn't apply to him.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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Tigerfly

My husband and I each have about 30 jumps.very newly licensed. He brought home a camera today and said he's going to attach it to his helmet and jump it. [:/]Doesn't sound like it should be our priority right now, but he won't listen to me. :P can you guys throw some good hard evidence my way of the potential risks of jumping with a camera please? Injuries and fatalities that have been attributed to cameras. I know some dropzones won't even allow it until 200 jumps, but I'm not sure on the rules where we jump (skydive city-zhills). I hope they don't allow it! I'm such a mean nagging wife!



My guess is that T.K. (Z-hills head jumping bean) won't let your husband jump a camera until he meets the recommendations.

For guidance on this topic and others, the USPA Skydiver's Information Manual (SIM) is a great start. It was developed almost entirely with input from the field and is updated regularly to reflect best practices.

Free SIM download here. Section 6-8 covers camera flying recommendations. Ask your husband to read it. He may find it enlightening.

http://www.uspa.org/Portals/0/files/Man_SIM_2016.pdf
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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He will probably say "I will just turn it on and forget it! And there are no snag hazards!"

History has proven that neither is true. Gopros are about the worst thing there are out there when it comes to snag hazards; a true snag-proof mount is NOT something you can just attach to your helmet.

But that's a minor point. A MUCH more major point is the distraction. He doesn't have enough jumps yet to deal with the added distraction of a camera. I compiled a list a while back of about 25 cases of people who were distracted by a camera and ended up colliding with someone, or landing hard, or landing out, or forgetting to pull, or forgetting their chest strap. Experience doesn't prevent this completely, but it does give someone more "reserves of attention" - they have developed relatively safe habits they will default to if they get overly distracted by a new gadget.

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Here's a list (compiled by DSE) of some incidents where camera use has been a factor:
===========================
Late Summer 2009 Southeastern Region
"I was playing with mounting options of my recently purchased little camera. Having just over 1,000 camera jumps at the time, this seemed like no big deal to stick it on the foot and go out and play. Given the nature of my jumping history, I have jumped non-standard gear on several occasions, including cameras mounted on the leg and chest but always with thorough planning beforehand. However this was a toy to me so I just took it lightly, grabbed it and went out to the boarding area for the dirt dive, fiddling with it the whole time. It was not till about 10,000 feet where I realize that my helmet is sitting on the bench in the boarding area and that I’ve been so distracted this whole time by the little plastic camera on my foot. I didn’t even notice on takeoff, when I always wear my helmet, that I had nothing on my head. This whole thing kinda spooked me so I told everyone that I would hang out on the outside of the tracking dive and break off early so that I can play it safe.

To sum it up, the skydive sucked, didn’t get any good footage because I was outside, and was mad at myself that I could be so careless. I think the small camera has been in the closet ever since and I went back to wearing camera only on camera jumps and no camera on fun jumps. Sorry the story has no blood and guts, but it’s still a big lesson on how sometimes things seem like no big deal when they really are. It may have ended different if I decided to stay in the skydive."


November 27 2009-NorCal Area
Female with approx 40 jumps exited aircraft with friend (about same number of jumps) Female claims to be “very active” BASE jumper, so going low (approx 1000 feet) was “no big deal.” She did not have a CYPRES. She was trying to shoot her friend’s deployment “from below.” No injury.

December 17, 2009 –SoCal Area
Male from Switzerland. 30 jumps. “I’m a paraglider pilot, so I know how to fly already.”
Flew into fence while trying to get video of his shadow. Minor cuts/abrasions.

Exact Date unknown-SoCal area
Female jumper, around 80 jumps was warned on ground and in aircraft about flying with a camera. She indicated that she felt very confident about flying with the small format camera taped to her helmet.
She left the aircraft with her goggles around her neck and after landing, admitted that in the process of trying to get the camera going, she had forgotten to put on her goggles. She was shaken up by the experience. No injury.

January 1 2010 Southeastern Region
Skydiver was shooting a friend on a high clear n’ pull. Neither one noticed their location and both ended landing far off the dropzone. Sprained ankle resultant from downwind landing on uneven and unfamiliar terrain.

March 21 2010 Southwestern Region
Skydiver “just shooting my jump” saw another canopy in the pattern and wanted to shoot it not noticing his own altitude. Downwind landing (against pattern). No injury, merely a talking-to by S&TA.

February (day unknown) SoCal
Two skydivers, each with fewer than 100 jumps, wearing small format cameras. They were practicing sit-flying and went low. Both deployed at approximately the same time and had a collision during deployment. Both suffered bruising, contusions. One jumper had 4 broken lines and 3’ tear in his center cell but did not cut away. He described the canopy as “really cool in the video” indicating he’d spent a lot of time looking up at the canopy. Neither had serious injuries.

March, exact date unknown Area/location not disclosed.
Tandem instructor with small format hand cam has a malfunction. He cuts away main but does not reach for the reserve handle, apparently anticipating a MARD save. He later explained that he wanted to keep filming the student and the cutaway (He did get great footage). No injury.

April 13 2010 Western Region
Skydiver with around 100 jumps wearing camera on head has spinning malfunction.
Delays cutting away and disconnects chinstrap on helmet before cutting away, losing altitude awareness. He was worried about the snag hazard, but still left his RSL connected anyway. He did not pull his reserve handle because “he felt the Skyhook take over as he was putting his hand on the D ring.” Skydiver had allegedly been warned about wearing a camera before 200 jumps. No injury.

April 19 2010 SoCal
Same skydiver from Switzerland mentioned earlier (Paraglider pilot) working on his swooping skills @ 200 jumps (while wearing wingsuit). Flew into fabric side of packing area breaking tension cables and damaging wingsuit. Claims camera wasn’t part of his incident.

April 21, 2010 Southeast Region
Skydiver with 242 jumps got a small format camera for Easter and was anxious to jump it. He pulled the camera from the USB charger and was rushing to the aircraft. He could not get the camera to turn on/stay on/go into record mode, and as a result of his rush, forgot to connect his chest strap.
He was experienced enough to grab his MLW and hold on during deployment.
His PM said “I think I need to work on my mental skills more because the camera kept me from doing my regular routine.” No injury.

May 3-5 (exact day unknown), 2010 Western Region
Skydiver could not get his small format camera to turn on and when the exit light came on, was still playing with his helmet. He delayed the other jumpers to the point that two others went past him. This created a snag hazard for the other skydivers, plus he had a helmet loose in the door area. The tandems on the load requested a go-around. No injury, was talked to on the ground.

May 2010 Central Region
AFF instructor was jumping a small format camera that they just had only just purchased. He was slightly long on climb out but still within reason. AFF jump goes normal until student deployment when the instructor flips to his back to film the opening of the student then tracks and deploys. This AFF instructor landed off while the other side instructor easily landed on the DZ with the student. Instructor was distracted by wanting to get "the shot." The instructor that landed off was carrying the student radio. The student landed uneventually without radio assistance.

June 7, 2010 South East area
Similar incident to tandem handcam incident posted above. Malfunction of the main (lineover followed by linetwists), TI cuts away but does not go for reserve handle. His left hand does not move in the entire video, and in the video, makes a comment about “getting that on camera.” Skyhook save. Reserve opens with several line twists and still, instructor does not move left hand, using right hand to twist and legs to kick.


June 20, 2010 SoCal area
(Actual jump number unknown, 3 months in sport). Newbie Jumper wearing small format camera on his chest was trying head down for the first time, got low (admitted he was geeking his camera) and deployed while head down. He flipped into his lines and one of the lines snagged his chest mount. “I was going for my hook knife but was able to clear the line first.” No injury.

June 21, 2010 Area unknown (from a post on DZ.com)
A jumper with approx. 50 jumps was gearing up and getting ready to board the plane, a highly experienced camera person noticed that this jumper had a Go Pro camera attached on top of his helmet. The jumper was questioned about his skill level, the jumper stated that the Go Pro is very small and that in no way will it ever get hung on his risers on opening, so his opinion was that it should not fall under USPA guidelines: of a recommendation of 200 skydives should be performed before flying a camera.
The jumper boarded the plane and performed his skydive. The incident was brought to my attention and the jumper was questioned by me immediately following his jump.
As we were talking I could tell the jumper was visibly nervous, he began to explain to me that after he deployed his parachute he noticed that his chest strap had been misrouted. Lesson learned!
A camera is a DISTRACTION! Like it or not! I asked this jumper how many times he checked his camera to make sure it was on before he left the plane? He said he checked it multiple times. It is obvious that after he geared up, he never once checked himself, before he entered the plane, never checked his gear, while in the plane and before exiting he never checked his gear.....he checked his camera multiple times.


June 22, 2010 SoCal area
From S+T:
===========
Jump number 200, which is the minimum requirement for strapping a camera to your head at our DZ. Strapped a camera to my head. Plan was to film two handsome skydivers jumping in only boxer shorts after some bets from the night before. This was in March, with plenty of snow on the ground. And to make it interesting, we planned a downwind landing - unless the wind was too strong. Can anyone say "recipe for disaster"? (=

Freefall was uneventful. Followed one of the guys down in canopy. Looked at the windsock and decided it was "too strong". Of course, the other guys on the load thought otherwise. Coming out of the 180 degree hook I see one of them coming towards me. Not very close, but it grabbed my attention. Even got it on tape. But I didn't notice the ground coming up on me... Didn't flare at all, hit with feet, knees, upper body, bounced back through the risers in a somersault and landed on my back about 5 meters away. Thank SkyGod for the meter of snow on the ground - I walked away with a stiff neck for 1 week.

Conclusion: Camera is a distraction. Never plan for "downwind, unless it's too much", it would be much better with "downwind, or other side of the runway if you think it's too much". 180 degree hooks make it hard for others to see what you're doing and for you to see what others are doing. Stupid stupid stupid.
================

June 28, 2010 Central Cal region
Guy I was organizing this weekend at XXXXX. The jumper in question has plenty of skydives but is not the most heads up guy you've ever met. We were first out of the PAC on a 4 way freefly jump.

He was having a hard time getting the camera to turn on, so he started putting his helmet on without the Small Format Camera attached, turning on the camera and then sliding it into the locking mount. He put his helmet on, thought he turned the camera on and then put the Small Format Camera on, but he put it on backwards. He realized his error just as the green light came on. The jumper started to take his helmet off to correct the problem and I told him to forget about it. He listened to me and started to climb out when someone behind us yelled, "And it's not on either" He then stopped his climb out and started to try and turn it on. I again forcefully told him to forget it and he finally finished the climb out....ready set go.

It was a light load so we had room in the spot but he was clearly more concerned with that camera than anything else going on around him. My opinion is that this is a guy who wouldn't jump a camera if the smaller form factor were not available. I told him on the ground if he was going to jump a camera he needed to be ready to go once the green light was on, and if he wasn't he needed to forget about it and exit anyway. I think I should have told him he shouldn't be jumping a camera.

Date unknown, Southeastern Region
Jumper with 133 jumps had a small format camera and this was her first jump with the camera. She removed the camera from her helmet and was talking to the camera when a gust of wind grabbed her canopy and picked her up. She landed on her side and broke her wrist. Her helmet probably saved her from additional injury.

July 4, 2010
From I/E, S&TA Western Region:
Jumper with 112 jumps decided to sneak a (brand deleted, small format) camera on a load. We do not allow them before 200 jumps, period.
Filming his own landing he failed to flare as he was watching either his feet or his shadow. We haven't heard back from the hospital yet but it appears he sprained both wrists, maybe broken.
This jumper will be monitored very closely in the future but I believe he has learnt his lesson with this injury.
Please keep posting these incidents. They make for strong arguments against these dweebs that think it's about the size of the camera that counts.

NorCal, July 10
Tandem-master is doing Handcam. Spinning main due to one break toggle being stuck. He never attempts to clear break toggle! Cut-away! Never uses left hand to pull reserve. RSL/skyhook safe. Not sure if camera was the problem. Didn't look like he tried to film everything (or at least the footage doesn't look good) He claims to have had TM cut-aways before where the skyhook beat him to the reserve....so he decided this time not even going for the reserve? TM has PRO rating too.
[dse note;I have requested a copy of this video so I can pixelate/blur faces but post the incident.]

August 19 2010
From S&TA/Southern area
Younger jumper
[edited to say] Small format camera] tied to helmet
Riser caught camera on deployment and broke plastic clip. Camera flew out but the Spectra tied to camera case caught riser and brake.
[edited to remove name] landed with helmet attached to chest strap because the way his helmet got wrapped on riser.

October 1, 2010: Mid-Western region
A jumper with approximately 120 jumps was competing in a 4-way scramble event. He had a [[namebrand deleted]] mounted on the side of his helmet with velcro and a tether. One the first jump of the day, he knocked his helmet on the door on exit and the camera came loose.

Because the camera was tethered, it was floating next to his head, smacking up and down in the wind. They ended up funneling the exit and went pretty low while he spent several seconds trying to fix it. Eventually he gave up and continued the skydive.

On the next jump he hooked up the camera again. We told him that perhaps he shouldn't wear it given the circumstances and his less than 200 jumps, but he insisted it was fine. Since our DZ doesn't have a set rule about no cameras before 200, there was nothing anyone could do.

Because I was right above the formation when the camera nearly came off, I'm not too happy with the situation. There's a good chance that I could have gotten a face-full of camera if there hadn't been a tether. Have you had any success in convincing jumpers not to use these types of cameras with such low jump numbers?

Western Region (Chicks Rock) Oct 1
Visiting jumper borrowed helmet from experienced skydiver. Small format camera on helmet.
It was this visiting jumpers first jump on this parachute/main, first helicopter jump, and second jump from below altide. He had around 50 total skydives.
After exiting the helicopter, he kept looking around the sky for his partner, but couldn't locate her, His audible can be heard going off. He does not deploy.
He appears to deploy at approx 1.5k based on pausing video with his alti in view.
He has sufficient altitude to get back to DZ at that point, but he chooses to geek teh camera instead, throwing hand signals etc. He does not make it back to the DZ landing area, and instead lands on the motorcycle racetrack. Had he deployed at proper altitude, or had he not geeked the [brand name deleted], he'd have easily made it back.

South Eastern Region PM rec'd Nov 4 2010
I should have listened to you guys.
My [{edit} small format camera] was glued and taped on the top of my helmet. When I deployeed my breaks excess got caught over the camera and I couldn't see what was caught so I tryed to pull off my helmet and then saw my break lines on it. I couldn't steer and couldn't know what to do so I chopped my canopy and had my first reserve ride. My helmet stayed tied to the canopy and even the camera was OK.
(video of this incident has been requested. This jumper has 66 jumps)

Western Region PM rec'd Dec 13 2010
Heres another 1 for your dz.com list.
Dude has a [[brand name deleted]] on his helmet @ about 65 jumps dzo he dont care.
Head down and delpoys and lines caught on the [[name brand deleted]] and he had to chop. and the [[brand name deleted]] broke off but it made his reserve twist up when it pulled his head. He got lucky to get out of the twists at about 1grand.

Midwest DZ, April 2011

First jump with a small format camera. Have owned one for about 2 years, using it for things like mtn biking, rock climbing, kayaking, snowboarding, etc. (not saying this made me ready to jump it, just more aware of what I was attaching to my helmet). Uneventful 2 way, was aware of the small format camera on my head but remained altitude aware, tracked off at 5.5, waved, deployed. Nasty spinning line twists, didn't want to chop because it was my first camera jump although I remained altitude aware in the spins, making the decision at 3K that I could kick out, started spinning out around 2.8, fully out of twists by 2.6.

SouthEastern Region June 18

My friend was jumping his [small format camera] and hit it on exit. He was trying to fix it so it was pointing the right angle after the exit and started to sping. He spinned very fast and hit me in the side and almost made my hackey come out. After he hit me we both were spinning pretty fast so he pulled his main because we said cameraman pulls first.
People should know to leave alone the camera if there is a problem in the jump so more problems don't happen in the jump.

8-22-2011: Location unknown.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCu-KfMhH4g

SouthWestern Region 9-1-2011
Got another one for ya. One of our young jumpers travels a lot on business. Got his a license here. A few weeks back was up in Washington. Bought a contour from [deleted] no one ever said a word. Had 35 jumps or so. Jumped it there side mounted and at [deleted].
Came back to Texas and jumped at [deleted]. Gorgeous day was flying around enjoying the clouds and the view. When he landed realized he had lost the camera to a riser strike.
Went out to a local store and bought another. A few days later went down there, manifested on a 13 minute call. Spent the time taping his camera to his helmet to make sure he didn't lose it again. Halfway to altitude realized that he was so focused on his camera that that he didn't bring an altimeter. Hid that fact from everyone cuz he was embarrassed. Left the plane and counted to 55-one hundred and pulled when he Was getting serious ground rush
Came back to his home DZ yesterday. Walking out to the plane saw his camera and promptly told him he didn't have the experience and he didn't argue and took it right off.
Sad part is he's completely ok with not jumping it here but he openly admits that when he is somewhere they don't care, he is wearing it.

Western Region 10-8-2011
(this person has 31 jumps when the incident occurred, according to their DZ.com profile)
Here's one for your report list.
I was flying just fine after deployment but did a really hard turn. When I was looking over my shoulder my camera got stock in my lines and I couldn't get it off. I was low to take my hands off my breaks. I landed, but it cranked my head over and I sprained my wrist when I fell over. I'm going to take off the camera for a while.

North East Region 11-6-2011
Short story:
Four low experinced jumpers exiting the OTTER at 13,500' with seemingly a very poor plan. The jumps turns into a 2-way and maybe another 2-way or two more solos (two other just vanish from the frame) The guy with about 110-115 jumps wearing a Drift camera trying to video the person (same experince level or even less) a who he was able to "catch" in free fall. When I viewd the video I knew it's going to show some trouble because it was getting awefully long.
Finally the "video subject" deploys and the guy with his Drift trying to film the deployment. At the mean time the two other jumper's canopies show up in the frame while he passing them in freefall.
Of course they were low... Now the dude deploys his main as expected his AAD fires his reserve at the same time. The lucky bastard had a biplane not an etanglement or other more dangerous two out configuration. He lands on someone's roof miraculously not hurting himself and not making any property damage either. Back at the DZ proudly showing his "adventure video" without showing any strong feelings.
The guy could have died 3 times this jump!
I hope you'll post this one too.

Western Region Jan 2011
A picture is worth a thousand words.
In this 'incident' both jumpers each have 18-19 jumps. They had been turned away from wearing a camera at one DZ so they found another one that didn't ask. They both rented rigs and warned that the rental rigs weren't freefly friendly.
"Cameraman" tries to backfly so he can "get the shot." The non-freefly friendly rig has other ideas and he has a premature deployment.
Although this incident is related to the non-freefly rig issue, the jumper would not have been freeflying/backflying had he not been attempting to get a shot of his buddy from below.
Note the buddy lower than him; he could have easily fallen through his buddy's canopy at the cutaway. The buddy could have just as easily hit the cameraman during the premature deployment.
Had the camera not been there, this would likely not have happened.
Chain of 3;
-Low time jumpers
-Non-Freefly friendly rig
-Camera

Southeastern Region Feb 4, 2012
This guy was on the plane with us and had two new {small format cameras] on his helmet. He was filming his deployments and solo jump.
He kept asking if the cameras was on and was fidling with it when the door opened. He jumped out and his helmet flew off because he forgot to snap it on.
He recovered everything but the cameras and helmet was badly damaged. It could have hit a house or a car.

Mid-Atlantic Region Feb 25, 2012
I thought you might like to add this to the list.., we had a 55 jump individual jumping with a Go-Pro who was seen cutting away almost immediately after main deployment.... he reported that the camera entangled in some fashion with the risers, "shreddding" them and spinning the canopy up. He landed without incident under a reserve, losing his freebag and camera, ruining a set of risers but quite proud that he kept his handles.


Holland Sept, 2012
It is being reported that this incident may have been camera/snag related
http://www.dropzone.com/...;;page=unread#unread

Western Region Oct, 2012
Jumper had 55 jumps/Blicense. Turned on [small format camera] on the heli ride up 'so it wouldn't distract me.'
Exited the heli unstable @ 5k, tossed the PC (unknown altitude)and caught a line on the [small format camera]. Jumper was spinning fast and chopped. Main didn't release so [removed] released the helmet cutaway. Deployed reserve and was OK. Camera was OK too, asking [removed] jumper for copy of footage.

Kansas October 2012
Jumper distracted by toe camera.

January 2013, NorCal
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/...0/skydiver-accident/
The small format camera is not related to the gear failure, yet the footage indicates the jumper was focusing more on the camera than on the jump (that ole' distraction thing again), and the instability led to a premature deployment.

March 2013 Western Region
Jumper wearing camera filming his jump partner. Jump partner deployed at 3000, camera flyer roled on his back to film the deploying partner. Stayed to long on his back and CYPRES fired when he pulled out his main to late. Main canopy caught on his [small fomat camera brand deleted] and he landed two parachutes. He got grounded for a week.

April 2013 Southeast Region
Not an incident:
Wingsuit rodeo, rider deploys without dismounting the wingsuit pilot. Pilot chute wraps his head (2x).
https://vimeo.com/64251059

July 2013 SouthEast Region
I watched a newbie on plane at Skydive _______________. She has about 75-80 jumps. First she delayed everyone at the exit because she couldn't see if her camera was recording and then she jumped with her goggles around her neck and she had to put them on in the jump. On her landing she forgot to turn the camera off and was trying to. She got to her brakes too late and had a hard landing. Ambulance came but she was OK.
[moderator note; I edited this email to offer better clarity]

July 2013 Western Region
Tandem student was allowed to wear a [small format camera] on there wrist. On deployment the risers or lines caught on the camera and tore it off the students wrist. Student was slightly cut when the strap tore off. We couldn't find the camera so we don't know what part for sure hit the students wrist.

March 2013 Norway
Wingsuiter had an extension "POV death bar" on the back of his helmet, main entangled with the arm. Post cutaway, the extension also interfered with the reserve deployment.

April 2014 East Coast USA
http://www.dropzone.com/...post=4631451#4631451
Although this was not a POV camera, all the same concerns apply.

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billvon

Here's a list (compiled by DSE) of some incidents where camera use has been a factor:
===========================

Midwest DZ, April 2011

First jump with a small format camera. Have owned one for about 2 years, using it for things like mtn biking, rock climbing, kayaking, snowboarding, etc. (not saying this made me ready to jump it, just more aware of what I was attaching to my helmet). Uneventful 2 way, was aware of the small format camera on my head but remained altitude aware, tracked off at 5.5, waved, deployed. Nasty spinning line twists, didn't want to chop because it was my first camera jump although I remained altitude aware in the spins, making the decision at 3K that I could kick out, started spinning out around 2.8, fully out of twists by 2.6.



Sadly, this was my entry...

Just echoing others, your husband should not be jumping with a camera. I thought I would be cool, but all I have is a bunch of shitty footage that is collecting dust on an external hard drive. I should never have risked my life for crap footage that is pretty unusable.

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I'm on jump 115 and still no camera. However, I have tons of pics and videos from other experienced jumpers that they kindly gave me for free. There are probably some friendly jumpers at your DZ that would do the same for a thanks or a beer. If it's all about the pic... let someone else take it!!!!
Whale oil beef hooked

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If he wants good footage to learn from outside video is the ticket. There's probably people way more experienced and qualified to fly camera at your DZ. Find one, offer to cover their jump and have them come film you.

I'm still perplexed every time I see a group of free fallers looking like unicorns all with cameras on their heads. All their going to get is multiple POV views of hand reaching for grips, nothing with the educational value of outside video.
diamonds are a dawgs best friend

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It's not the camera, it's the person.

I find people who wait for the magic 200 jumps before jumping with a GoPro are sketchier than people that don't have "200 jumps" burned into the back of their skulls - even if they attach a GoPro at less than 100 jumps.

Maybe instead of showing him a carnage reel (there isn't really one for basic GoPros), talk to him about the potential additional risks, how he intends to address them and what benefits he hopes to get out of it. Your S&TA should be a good place to have such a conversation.

Asking for advice here will be counterproductive - you have a bunch of hard liners that are going to try to shove their biases down your husband's throat and he'll just listen to you less, not more.

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Some people have 200 jumps. Some people have the same jump 200 times.

The "hard liners" that you speak of with their biases are only that way because we get so tired of circling at altitude, waiting to jump, until the ambulance gets out of the landing area with another mad skillz wonder.

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Well you just notified Z Hills to keep an eye out so that's not a bad start. Its much easier to find friends to jump with who wear a camera, because when its strapped to your head, you dont get any footage of yourself anyways. Its very easy to spot someone in the loading area who shouldn't be wearing a camera so tell him to expect being called out on it and not be allowed to jump. You dont want to have a reputation when you have 30 jumps.

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grimmie

Some people have 200 jumps. Some people have the same jump 200 times.

The "hard liners" that you speak of with their biases are only that way because we get so tired of circling at altitude, waiting to jump, until the ambulance gets out of the landing area with another mad skillz wonder.



I mean you're lumping low turns and swooping into the same category of risk as wearing a GoPro... one is the number one killer of skydivers, the other just isn't...

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*** I mean you're lumping low turns and swooping into the same category of risk as wearing a GoPro... one is the number one killer of skydivers, the other just isn't...

How can you be so sure that it isn't?

An awful lot of close-calls are related to cameras. Some are related to snags. Many (most?) are simply caused by the distraction of getting the shot or getting it to record in the first place.

We only know this because the persons survived, and were able to share their experience. If they hadn't, it would have been impossible to link the fatality to the camera.
So how can you be so sure that the fatalities that did occur, are not - at least partially - caused by the distraction of the camera?

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lyosha

It's not the camera, it's the person.

I find people who wait for the magic 200 jumps before jumping with a GoPro are sketchier than people that don't have "200 jumps" burned into the back of their skulls - even if they attach a GoPro at less than 100 jumps.

Maybe instead of showing him a carnage reel (there isn't really one for basic GoPros), talk to him about the potential additional risks, how he intends to address them and what benefits he hopes to get out of it. Your S&TA should be a good place to have such a conversation.

Asking for advice here will be counterproductive - you have a bunch of hard liners that are going to try to shove their biases down your husband's throat and he'll just listen to you less, not more.



I'm not sure what you mean by "hard liner".

I don't know anyone who has enough experience to know what they are doing who would think it's a good idea for someone with 30 jumps to stick a camera on.

And I don't hear anyone going "Tell him he's gonna die if he does it."

I'm hearing "Ask the S&T A" or "Look in the SIM" or "Read (insert various threads & articles here)". Or "here are a bunch of incidents that occurred to similar people in similar situations."

I've reached the point where I simply ask someone why they are "better" or "different" or "special" and that the rules & reccy's shouldn't apply to them.

Sometimes they wonder why I won't jump with them after they give a long winded line of crap about being a "fast learner" or how their experience with motorcycles or skis or whatever makes them exempt.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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the most important thing is to read all the fatalities and accidents related to cameras and review additional things that can go wrong, not having 200 jumps. That being said with 30 jumps no way you can jump a camera, it would just be information overload. Fresh off A license you are still nervously checking all your gear, don't know order in the plane etc... and unless you have a lot of tunnel you won't be able to get any footage anyways.

Around 100 jumps (if you get to 100 fast and actively jumping) is when you start getting comfortable enough that you could add a camera IF you understand all the extra thing s that can go wrong (knowing snag risk is not enough, you need to think about snag on reserve bridle, snag on another jumper main bridle, snag on front riser, snag on D ring in the door or in free fall, etc...) it's really an issue of "you don't know what you don't know"

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chemist

the most important thing is to read all the fatalities and accidents related to cameras and review additional things that can go wrong, not having 200 jumps. That being said with 30 jumps no way you can jump a camera, it would just be information overload. Fresh off A license you are still nervously checking all your gear, don't know order in the plane etc... and unless you have a lot of tunnel you won't be able to get any footage anyways.

Around 100 jumps (if you get to 100 fast and actively jumping) is when you start getting comfortable enough that you could add a camera IF you understand all the extra thing s that can go wrong (knowing snag risk is not enough, you need to think about snag on reserve bridle, snag on another jumper main bridle, snag on front riser, snag on D ring in the door or in free fall, etc...) it's really an issue of "you don't know what you don't know"



Not knowing what you don't know is certainly something to think about when giving advice to low time jumpers.

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Tigerfly

My husband and I each have about 30 jumps.very newly licensed. He brought home a camera today and said he's going to attach it to his helmet and jump it. [:/]Doesn't sound like it should be our priority right now, but he won't listen to me. :P can you guys throw some good hard evidence my way of the potential risks of jumping with a camera please? Injuries and fatalities that have been attributed to cameras. I know some dropzones won't even allow it until 200 jumps, but I'm not sure on the rules where we jump (skydive city-zhills). I hope they don't allow it! I'm such a mean nagging wife!



So.....have divorce proceedings been initiated yet?:D
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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At the door someone with 30 jumps should be thinking about exiting stable, falling stable and working on the range of motion in free fall, the dive plan, breaking off safely and pulling at the right altitude and stable, ep's if it goes wrong, safe canopy flight with a head on a swivel, making sure the GoPro is on, what caption he will add on Facebook to impress his whuffo friends and cool hand signals and sayings as soon a his canopy opens. So yeah, sounds like he's a mad skiilz pro, don't hold him back with your overbearing wife stuff. :S

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Z-Hills is a pretty big DZ and I would guess unless TK actually saw the newbie and knew his jump numbers, this could escape his notice with all the stuff going on there on a daily basis. Bad idea to be jumping a camera at 30 jumps. I wouldn't let it happen at my DZ, but there is almost no one who jumps there that I don't know and I am generally in the loading area for every jump.
Charlie Gittins, 540-327-2208
AFF-I, Sigma TI, IAD-I
MEI, CFI-I, Senior Rigger
Former DZO, Blue Ridge Skydiving Adventures

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fencebuster

Z-Hills is a pretty big DZ and I would guess unless TK actually saw the newbie and knew his jump numbers, this could escape his notice with all the stuff going on there on a daily basis. Bad idea to be jumping a camera at 30 jumps. I wouldn't let it happen at my DZ, but there is almost no one who jumps there that I don't know and I am generally in the loading area for every jump.



I'll throw TK a bone here and say there isn't much he doesn't pick up on. I assume this guy started jumping there so my guess is TK would recognize him as a newbie. I also bet the regulars there would notice and pass the word.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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