Have you ever left the Military...?

[leapdog 0]

Right on Bro. The only thing I was really upset about is that they didn't issue me Oakleys at Parris Island.

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

Sorry for the chick invasion....

I used to call on Radiologists and Emergency Physicians at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs CO...they couldn't wait to pay their dues/time and get out to be "civi's" and make $600K+/yr vs what they made while "serving".

_________________________________________

[cocheese 0]

What part of "I would't do anything like that for the money even if it was a lot of it" don't you understand ?
You're the second reason i left.

[leapdog 0]

Some use it as a stepping stone, some don't. Some fields in the Private work force don't pay as much as you could make in the armed forces. I could be making 40K a year active with my time in service and pay grade. but I make 7k less and pay my own benefits. Electronics don't make as much as the medical field.

I didn't like reward/cost ratio so I stayed reserves like I started.

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[DoTheDrew 0]

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Oh and i wanted to play with explosives I'll admit it.

Throw a lot of grenades in the national gard did you?

[SkyDaemon 0]

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but admit it. Military people LIKE to be told what to do. Non military people DON"T LIKE to be told what, how, when, where or whatever how to do something.

This is a gross oversimplification of the situation that may be your mantra after your experience, but it's just a motto that makes you feel justified in painting a large portion of Americans with the same brush. I can understand this type of mentality, and without trying to name percentages or quote statistics or pretend that one can make gross statements about the psychology of a large group from all over the USA, your statement is grossly inaccurate.

The military (like most large institutions, including most Fortune 500 companies) have policies and procedures in place that exist because they work and the overall organization benefits by having them. Your gripe that you may have seen a 'better' way of doing things, is a common one in both the military and industry. It's also commonly a gripe most uttered from those on the bottom of the pyramid.

When someone joins the military they do so with the full understanding that they will be assimilated into the institution, much as employees are in the case of major corporations. The goal being to ensure that a large group can work cohesively and predictably. The chain of command and hierarchical leadership of such institutions exists so that projects of scale can be accomplished. Those who join such institutions do so knowing they will start at the bottom of the ladder. In order to climb the ladder they will have to work within the system. Anyone who thought otherwise wasn't thinking in the first place (and didn't read their contract at all).

All organizations that involve people who are 'told what to do' involve people who 'tell them what to do'. The military has more rigid tools available to ensure that its members actually do this, however it's the basis of institutional life. Those who rise through the ranks become the individuals who's minds determine how the institution will be led and it is their hands on the helm. Those at the bottom of the pyramid are not asked to steer the institution any more often than a high school freshman is asked to teach the class. The hierarchy is very clear and obvious from the very beginning, and (for the past 20 years) those who participate do so voluntarily.

Do those who take on their first job and start at the bottom "Like to be told what to do"?, Do students like to 'told what to think'? Do those who start their first business "like to follow government rules and regulations and pay taxes"?

I understand the basis of your claim, however I think you've oversimplified the situation so much you've introduced a new level of error that distracts from your main point. You may want to rethink that point and phrase it less sharply as well as extend the respect to those who have risen through the ranks, endured the aspects of the situation that you couldn't stand, and moved ahead.

Although on a personal note, I agree with you. I stayed in the USMC long enough to be promoted to a comfortable level and left in 2001. I have since made it a priority to eliminate participation in as many institutions as I can. Personally, I don't care for the way institutions do things, the way they (don't) work, the structure, the inflexibility, or the overall sterile nature of instituations, but I realize they're far more complex than meets the eye and can't be explained by a cliche that would fit on a bumper sticker.

-=Raistlin

find / -name jumpers -print; cat jumpers $USER > manifest; cd /dev/airplane; more altitude; make jump; cd /pub; more beer;

[leapdog 0]

WOW. Well put. Got the back cover summarization to this stuff?

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[cocheese 0]

Nope, i'm just a man of fewer words. Taking risk of misunderstanding.

[Broke 0]

If you don't mind me asking what is you MOS in the Corpse.


I never did serve, but if I could do it all over again I would sign up to become a PJ. I love saving lives.

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[ccowden 0]

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Nope, i'm just a man of fewer words. Taking risk of misunderstanding.

I guess so. So far, what I've heard is you were in the NG for three years to pay some dues but really didn't want to do the job you signed up for or be told to, you were just there to keep a slot filled. And people in the military can't make their own decisions and like to be told what to do.

Screw you.

I joined the Army because I wanted to serve my country and defintely had a mind of my own. While others were telling me, "No, you go to college and you get a degree and get a good job. That's what you do." To me, I didn't like what to be told to do, I wanted to be myself and join the Army to serve my country. I joined to become a better person. Yes, I took orders and yes I was told what to do, but that is the reason our military is the strongest in the world. It is ALL volunteer and works well the way it runs. But it certainly doesn't mean I didn't have a mind of my own or liked to be told what to do. It was just doing my job to the best of my ability. People are told what to do in EVERY job.

I served my country and was willing to die to protect the freedoms we all enjoy, and I watched friends of mine die doing that same thing. It is honorable and brave and each one of the memeber of our Armed Forces has a mind of their own. Maybe more of a mind than most.

So, go ahead with your "Settle down dude" and your "You misunderstood me," because I don't give a shit. Your not thinking out your posts and "few words" pissed me off in this thread and I am gonna say so.

4 Years, 3/75th Ranger Battalion, US Army

[mattjw916 2]

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I joined the Army because I wanted to serve my country and defintely had a mind of my own. While others were telling me, "No, you go to college and you get a degree and get a good job. That's what you do." To me, I didn't like what to be told to do, I wanted to be myself and join the Army to serve my country. I joined to become a better person. Yes, I took orders and yes I was told what to do, but that is the reason our military is the strongest in the world. It is ALL volunteer and works well the way it runs. But it certainly doesn't mean I didn't have a mind of my own or liked to be told what to do. It was just doing my job to the best of my ability. People are told what to do in EVERY job.

Well said.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[EXTremeWade 0]

To all of you, thanks so much..I have learned a lot..wow, thank you all

[cocheese 0]

I think i'm going to become a troll. Damn it's fun to get you people going with just a few words.
Settle down Francis.

[ccowden 0]

Enjoy that do ya?

You already are a troll, so mission accomplished. Problem is, you are also a real person and the shit you say to people on here will carry over into real life. Bullshitting and and making smartass comments about garbage on here is one thing, I do that myself, but belittling people about something like this is a whole different thing.

So, I am glad you get a kick out of it and think it is funny. You go right ahead and enjoy being a troll on here. Everyone has to have goals.

[skymama 35]

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That's the problem with military people, you are too comfortable having others make your decisions.

My dad was the Captain of an artillery unit in Viet Nam and now runs his own company. He is a very imposing man and no one has the balls to tell him what to do.

Your statement is very offensive and I'm disappointed that you would say something like that.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[cocheese 0]

Read into it what you will. But my opinion is based on experience i have had with the military. Of course blanket statements like this will cause controversy, but
do we really need a lawyer type disclaimer everytime we speak our minds ? The poster came to us for our opinion. He asked us to help him make a big decision. A little tough love jab often wakes people up to the possible realities they need to face.
Never mind. I'll go away.
Or I'll stick to my usual candy ass fluff.

[AdrenalineBluez 0]

I served a decade and a half in the Navy. After more knee surgeries than I care to count the Navy finally got tired of putting Humpty Dumpty back together again and put me out.

At first I was terrified. I didn't know anything else!!! What the hell am I gonna do??? It was panic. I had other skills and I knew it but the apprehension was there.

Then I got the pipe dream. I can go make ass loads of money!!! Yeah I am a computer wizard the civillian sector is going to be the place to be... WRONG!!!! Errrrrrrr Ok RIGHT!!!!

Things to be aware of.

1. My salary now is about 20K more a year than your E-6 with 14 makes. The checks are about 100 dollars and some change less than my E-6 checks. The taxes you DONT pay on your BAH make a huge difference. So know that you need to see a lot more cash in the civilliam sector to take home what you do now in the military.

2. Medical insurance. You can pretty much rip a limb off in the military and they will put you back together and send you on your way. Civillian coverage it aint that way from most employers. Co-pays, or only getting full coverage until you have covered "x" amount out of your pocket.

3. You now have to buy your own work clothes. Sure our uniform allowance wasnt much. However, uniforms made going to work easy. You didnt have to think about what to wear. I loved that... Cripes I am so fashion challenged I have to let my wife dress me...

There are a lot of other little factors to consider. All or none of which may be important to you. You said you enjoyed the security. That is a big thing. However, with a good education and job experience you can virtually rest assured that as long as you apply yourself in the civillian sector there is security to be had. <~~wow serious run on.

Ok that said. If you love the military life then stay. I wish I could have. Though my motivation was making that 20 years. If you see civillian life as appealing go that way. Jumping will always be there and if you really want to jump badly enough you will always find a way. Make your career choice based on what you see yourself doing 10 or 20 years from now though. Don't make it based on what lets you jump the most. You have to work for most of the rest of your life. You may not even care about jumping long before then...

"Uh oh! This is gonna hurt!"

[OATSF14 0]

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That's the problem with military people, you are too comfortable having others make your decisions

A very stupid comment.

[cocheese 0]

Not really. Most military people are comfortable with the hand holding provided. I could rephrase it to a more PC comment as not to hurt the sensitive feelings of such tough people, but i don't even have the common decency to give you a reach around.

I love our military people. Nothing wrong with saying they are comfortable to go with the flow, but when they come here for career decisions i wonder how much they think for themselves. Jesus i need to unplug this fucking computer. Maybe i should re-up and help bomb the fuck out of other countries. It's what we do best because our polititions think it's the right thing to do.
How's that for a stupid comment ?

[matthewcline 0]

Pretty good.

Seriously, I would say your partially right.

I can say it as I have 19 1/2 years active duty and still going (not much longer though).

Some service members who stay in, like being told what to do and having little "work" decisions to make.

Others stay in because they are good at what they do, are moving up quickly and leading (making the decisions and advising others in what to do.)

Some even stay in because they believe in what the military is for; Protecting the country and its citizens.

I fall in the last 2 catogories.

I also found I got a few side benifits too; I learnd to skydive, got some extra school, made friends around the country and the world, learned alot about responsibility that I think some of todays teens will never learn, and a whole lot of other things that would take hours to write.

Just my opnion based on my observations.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[leapdog 0]

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Not really. Most military people are comfortable with the hand holding provided. I could rephrase it to a more PC comment as not to hurt the sensitive feelings of such tough people, but i don't even have the common decency to give you a reach around.


I love our military people. Nothing wrong with saying they are comfortable to go with the flow, but when they come here for career decisions i wonder how much they think for themselves. Jesus i need to unplug this fucking computer. Maybe i should re-up and help bomb the fuck out of other countries. It's what we do best because our polititions think it's the right thing to do.

How's that for a stupid comment ?

Now lean forward and choke yourself.

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[jmpnkramer 0]

Hey Wade:

Did we meet at the B&G? I was jumping with Katie,Alicia, & Ken 8's.

Anyway, that is a very hard decision to make so sit down and think about it long and hard. I always suggest to people on making a pro/con list. Gather as much information as possible and talk to the recruiters and look on-line. Now that we have that more readily available it can answer many questions.

I got off active duty after 10.5 Yrs. I went directly into the National Guard. They Pay 100% in my state and I believe in a majority of other states.

I am personally not happy with the Guard. I love my unit but dealing with the individuals at state is troublesome. That of course is my own experience. I got hurt skydiving and they wanted to immediately discharge me. I fought it and won. Then last June I broke my femur on a military jump and once again I am having issues at the state level.

As far as deployments; well it is much different. First you have plenty of time and after the first tour the rest are voluntary. They can force the issue though so do not be fooled by that statement. You will have more time to make arrangements then if you were on active duty though.





Now as for the comments made by Cocheese. All of ya'll that reprimanded him I commend you but at the same time am slightly disappointed.
Here is a guy who spent possibly three years in the Guard. He knows less than shit about the military. He probably did not make it past the rank of PVT and workied in the mess hall. Therefore his idea of blowing stuff up was with natural gas when he screwed up!

I mean seriously for those of us who have been there we know the deal. As well as those of us who are Combat arms.

Not to mention he is obviously a lonely man as to how much he posts on here. I do not even view this site that much and many threads are from him.




Wade, I wish you the best of luck in your decision. Like another poster said if you need assistance with a resume' PM me.


Laters,

K-MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



.

The REAL KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!

"HESITATION CAUSES DEATH!!!"
"Be Slow to Fall into Friendship; but when Thou Art in, Continue Firm & Constant." - SOCRATES

[Shark 0]

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That's the problem with military people, you are too comfortable having others make your decisions

A very stupid comment.

Yep! Obviously he has not been in the black shoe Navy.

[BIGUN 1,053]

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I love the miliatry, but dont want to leave its job and finiacial security so as to what has been paying for the sport since I started.

There's a myriad of folks who who pay for skydiving in a myriad of ways without the benefit of a steady paycheck; packing, rigging, second jobs, manifest, gear sales, etc.

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My next option is to go to college I guess, and work at some degree like buisness, but I mean in reality, I dont know what I would like to do wioht a college degree yet.

Very few people do. The first couple of years is a sprinkling of exposure to a vast array of directions. I declared a business degree until I found my true passion in Communications which served me well; but needed a graduate degree in business for corporate America (thankfully, I minored in management in undergrad).

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I am asking for some help from anyone here who has left the military and gone a different route and tell me how they paid for the sport and did you eventually get back into it hard like you used to before you left the military or what.

Yes; 10 years active and five in the reserves - after Desert Storm, I took a nine year break from skydiving. The first couple of years was for grad school. the next few years were job-related and while my fellow skydivers remained friends over the years, they would occasionally ask if I thought about skydiving again. At the time, my standard response was, "Been there, done that." I found myself back in skydiving when a group of about 15 co-workers asked me to hook them up with a DZ. I took them out to my former Jumpmaster, friend and occasional "breakfast club" buddy turned DZO for their classes. He told me about some new student gear which I tried on and then suggested I go do a jump. Second jump of the day, I called Linda Marie (LM) out at the Gear-store @ elsinore and ordered new gear - that was seven years ago. So I had nine years in the sport in the 80's, stopped in 90 when activated for DS, then grad school, etc. and started jumping again in '99.

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I just dont know what to do wiht myslef

That's a good thing. I don't think anyone with any form of IQ or ambition is ever really satisfied with status quo. There's always something to do, new challenges to take on, new lands to visit and new quests to conquer.

It took you all of eternity to get there and if by the grace of God you get your block of 75 years on this planet; do everything you can... cause when you leave; you're never coming back. I hope you never learn what to do with yourself. I hope you learn to do a little bit of everything.

The man you become ten or twenty years from now will always be rooted by what you've learned in the military. I don't care how many degrees you get, how financially successful you become or if you choose to be a social worker or teacher for a pittance of salary. Those things you've learned in the military will always be the foundation of your dedication and you will always be a member of the largest fraternity on the planet - a Veteran. There are no graduation rings, awards, or membership fees required and yet; the only requirement for membership is the pride you have in yourself for having served.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[OATSF14 0]

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don't even have the common decency to give you a reach around

Great line from a great movie