likestojump 3 #1 January 27, 2008 yeah, no shit - got a K22 that just turned yellow. pull is ok, but does it even seem realistic to wash it ? a sidenote - in the 80s Pioneer was buying them back - what's their official position on that now ? (yeah, loooooooooooong shot, i know) whats interesting is all the doc i pull up say Oct 1981 and on shoudl be tested. This one is Sept 1981 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #2 January 27, 2008 Please don't jump it. I'd be genuinely surprised if you can find a rigger who would be willing to pack it for you. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #3 January 28, 2008 I'm not sure you CAN wash it. For SAC's only a few people got the approval for the alternate means of compliance, washing it. Not every rigger could do it. I just don't remember for the K-22. And it's not worth looking up. It's not worth risking someones life by packing it. And, you need to pull at least every panel next to the mesh. I had one where two panels on the same gore, the same color, next to one continuous piece of mesh and obviously having seen the same environmental conditions had reacted differently. One was like wet Kleenex. I could pull it apart with two finger on each hand, probably no more than 2 pounds. The other panel was full strenght. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybeergodd 0 #4 January 28, 2008 If you can wash it...use Cheer Detergent....it really does work.... I had one that was "hot " for acid and washed it just for experience and to see if it worked... It actually did and to top it all off it passed the PIA strength test(all gores)...Now this was not a canopy that was in service and was just used as an experiment......My feeling is , if one is that old that it actually was in the acid mess AD, then it needs to be replaced...It's old and everyone knows that most pilots aren't good about keeping their rigs current. My good pilot(non-skydivers) customers bring me their rigs once a year...I have others that I see every two or three years. There is no way would I want to wash a canopy and send it out knowing it's going to be at least a year or two before I get to see it and test it again.............. DO NOT REPLY WITH YOU ARGUEMENTS,INSIGHTS OR ANY OTHER REASON YOU CAN THINK OF TO ARGUE....THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION AND I WILL NOT DEBATE YOU SO SAVE YOUR TIME (damn shame I have to put this disclaimer on) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #5 January 28, 2008 I don't know what to say. If it is hot for acid, then this will probably be a pretty big deal in the rigging community... What the hell were the riggers who packed it doing for the last 20 years!?!?!?=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #6 January 28, 2008 QuotePlease don't jump it. I'd be genuinely surprised if you can find a rigger who would be willing to pack it for you. wow thanks for the helpful answer. Just guessing that anybody who tests for acid is probably rigger themslves. I agree wholeheartedly that such a 27 year canopy, that had acid mesh for over 20 year would be foolish to trust a life to, even after any possible "repairs" are done. I wouldn't use a 22ft for any kind of emergency rig anyway :). I do plan to give it a bath, just to see if it will work. Afterwards.... perhaps cut the lines and put it on eBay. Or draw some skulls and bones with a Sharpie, then give it a bath and cut the lines off and ... still sell on eBay. Thanks for the answers ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,046 #7 January 28, 2008 Hi likes, How about washing and drying it, cutting the lines off of it & then donating it to an elementary school? The kiddies will love you, I think, and you will feel good, I think. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #8 January 28, 2008 Quote Hi likes, How about washing and drying it, cutting the lines off of it & then donating it to an elementary school? The kiddies will love you, I think, and you will feel good, I think. JerryBaumchen I never thought of it, but i would be glad to do donate it as well. The canopy is plain white, I figured the schools would want something more colorful.. Tnx for the idea. And I believe you were one of those individuals/lofts that was authorized to wash the SACs. Or at least one that i have has your name on it :) cya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #9 January 28, 2008 You could give it to your local DPRE! I'm sure he could find a use for it to train upcoming rigglets. =========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #10 January 28, 2008 QuoteQuotePlease don't jump it. I'd be genuinely surprised if you can find a rigger who would be willing to pack it for you. wow thanks for the helpful answer. Just guessing that anybody who tests for acid is probably rigger themslves. I agree wholeheartedly that such a 27 year canopy, that had acid mesh for over 20 year would be foolish to trust a life to, even after any possible "repairs" are done. I wouldn't use a 22ft for any kind of emergency rig anyway :). I do plan to give it a bath, just to see if it will work. Afterwards.... perhaps cut the lines and put it on eBay. Or draw some skulls and bones with a Sharpie, then give it a bath and cut the lines off and ... still sell on eBay. Thanks for the answers ! Don't chop it up! I'll take it, jump it (not as a reserve) to destruction!---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 January 28, 2008 Tee! Hee! Most pilots are on the "mad rush the week before the soaring competition ... mad rush the week before the aerobatic competition ... mad rush the week before the Reno Air Races ... mad rush the week before the Oshkosh Fly In" schedule! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #12 January 28, 2008 The acid mesh era was twenty years ago. It is time to quietly retire all those suspect canopies. Even if they never had acidic mesh, twenty years of tensile testing has significantly weakened the fabric. The other problem is that hardly any modern skydiving instructors remember how to land round parachutes. Oh! Wait a minute! Most young skydiving instructors have never SEEN a round parachute! How can they teach something they have never done????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dumstuntzz 0 #13 January 28, 2008 i agree with rob. retire the canopy. its at the supposed end of its service life anyhow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #14 January 28, 2008 Quotei agree with rob. retire the canopy. its at the supposed end of its service life anyhow. I agree with Rob too. But it has been packed away in a rig for close to 20 years, so not tensile testing but the pull that i did. as far as retirement age - BULLSHIT. Look at Don Mayers statemetns on Pilot rigs page. http://www.parachuteshop.com/used_pilot_parachutes.htm My water BASE rig has a 1985 Phantom 24 and i trust it with no reserve. Of course high-speed aircraft deployments are a different story, but those canopies can still be used by smart and cautious people for the right purposes, as long as they are not trying to land them on hard ground. cya Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #15 January 28, 2008 Quoteyeah, no shit - got a K22 that just turned yellow. pull is ok, but does it even seem realistic to wash it ? a sidenote - in the 80s Pioneer was buying them back - what's their official position on that now ? (yeah, loooooooooooong shot, i know) whats interesting is all the doc i pull up say Oct 1981 and on shoudl be tested. This one is Sept 1981 Recommendation: Cut the lines Check with DPRE's/course instructors to see if any of them want one for instructional purposes. DO NOT sell on EBay... I'm tired of having to explain why the CR&P they just bought online is not going to get packed. While it COULD be washed, and pull tested... why...? New and not-so-old "never been hot" reserves just aren't that expensive. But then, thats just me... I think my last shot (and that of those I rig for) should be as good as I can get it... JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dumstuntzz 0 #16 January 28, 2008 i said SUPPOSED retirement age. geez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #17 January 29, 2008 Quotei said SUPPOSED retirement age. geez I apologize if I sounded confrontational. I just want to know where the "SUPPOSED" retirement age comes from ? Too many people think that a 20year plus canopy is good for nothing but a car cover, and that drives me mad :) sorry dude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hajnalka 0 #18 January 29, 2008 This is not even funny. I've only ever seen 2 canopies fail pH in my loft - The first one was sent back to the manufacturer. The second one we kept because it seemed solid/passed pull tests. Next week it pulled apart like tissue paper in my hands. Please be careful. PM me if you want. Best, D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #19 January 29, 2008 Never had one fail, seen very few that were of the "right" type, but a close friend of mine did... He was just returning to the sport after putting the gear in the closet for years. Took it to a rigger up in PA for I&R. As I understand it, the rigger told him that upon inspection, he should get new gear. When asked "why" the rigger, with my friend's consent, proceeded to demonstrate by picking up the skirt and ripping it to the apex with one move. My friend, being a seasoned and wise individual, recognizing that this is better seen on the ground than in the air, chose the "new gear" route. It was a HOT SAC that had been carefully stored and not inspected since shortly before the warnings went out. This is why riggers need to: read history compare notes research any gear that they don't know (make/model/year) ask questions like someone's life depends on the answer (it DOES) Just because it "flake in the usual manner" doesn't mean it should be... JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ripcord4 0 #20 January 30, 2008 QuoteQuotei said SUPPOSED retirement age. geez I apologize if I sounded confrontational. I just want to know where the "SUPPOSED" retirement age comes from ? Too many people think that a 20year plus canopy is good for nothing but a car cover, and that drives me mad :) sorry dude. "Supposed" retirement age, my ass! I routinely jump a 43 year old Para Commander and a 40 year old Tri-Conical reserve. Needless to say, I unhesitatingly trust my life to both of them. "Modern" skydivers have an unhealthy fear of any rig more than 10 years old - 'taint so, folks. Most rigs, if properly stored and maintained will outlast their owners. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dumstuntzz 0 #21 January 31, 2008 i guess nobody got that i was being SARCASTIC when i said SUPPOSED retirement age. lighten up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
