Chris_K 0 #51 September 17, 2008 QuoteQuote I think by posting this and by simply reading this thread you have acquired the balls and knowledge to borrow my Xaos 83 which I bought because it was cheaper to buy it than having to spend the money relining my Crossfire2 99, ha ha ha --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ever think his retarded downsizing may have something to do with the fucktards he surrounds himself with? If your profile is correct you have 500 jumps yet your jumping a Xaos 83. Fucking brilliant....................... Just for the record, Freak is a very samll guy. It might be a small canopy but his WL is not that high. I forgot to add, Freak is a very sarcastic guy, he would never let steve jump that canopy. Steve is surrounded by two types; the old jumpers, a couple of thousand jump, have seen it all, etc. they all say this is a bad idea. then he has the young swoopers, even after one pilled into the ground fairly recently it did not give pause for though (that was equipment failure) Steve I know your mentor has a few tousand jumps, but he still has many less the fuzzy or Steve S, listen to the real experience.Downsizing is not the way to prove your manhood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cyn 0 #52 September 17, 2008 Zep, what you're doing kinda reminds me of what my daughter used to do when trying to convince me to buy sugary cereal. She'd look at the nutrition facts on the side of the box and ignore the sugar, carbs, calories, fat etc (all the bad stuff) and focus on the 3 grams of protien or 20% of her iron requirement. You're choosing to listen to the 1 or 2 people who are telling you what you want to hear and not the many many other people that know you & are telling you what you need to hear because they care about you. I, personally, can't stand some of the alarmist attitudes that people get on DZ.com or drama.com as some people call it. I've never been a big fan of people that don't know me telling me that they care about me & my safety & know what's best for me or flaming people for making simple comments or asking questions. I don't think I've made any secret of that. I mean we're all making our own choices in the end and not everyone has to agree with them i guess. But seriously, dude, listen to the people who actually know you. I know my jump numbers are much lower than yours & I'm not saying you should listen to me. I'm just saying you should listen to ALL the people around you who know you & are offering you good advice for your safety because they really do care, not just the couple that you want to listen to. I don't get what you're doing at all. What's the point?"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Telek 0 #53 September 17, 2008 QuoteLook how many of your friends have posted here. Let's do a count of people that have posted in this thread that PERSONALLY know you and have jumped with you. Jim S Chris K Adam G Peter C Fuzzy Freak Chris S Let's add a few more to that list who haven't posted who disagree with his choices: Sean Marika Jeff K Adam M (The DZO!) Alex T Mikhail Cyn Vic Doug R Shelley R Fez ... and the list goes on. and I bet that I know the 3 that he is speaking of (who said it's ok to jump that canopy), and I honestly wouldn't take their opinions with much weight as they are all crater bait and reckless and there are several people with far more experience who are recommending against it. At our dropzone there have been at least a dozen people that I have personally spoken with who disagree with his choices vs the few who do. His thought process really sounds like someone who has made the decision to do something, then comes up with as many logical points for the decision and then doesn't put the same effort into coming up with points against. Thus once the process is complete you're left with more in the "for" column than the "against" one and obviously you've made a rational decision. This is in stark contrast to taking an objective look at the whole situation and applying logic from there to MAKE the decision. Part of what really frustrates me with this one is that at least two very experienced and reasonable people have separately taken him aside and told him not to jump that canopy. I'm sorry, but if I was in his position and I had those people come up to me then I would have reconsidered my position, and I am not the most cautious jumper known to man. So instead of trying to persuade him with logic, how about trying to understand the mentality behind these decisions? The biggest issue I think that is really here is that he is bored with the canopies that he should be jumping. For someone who is looking for excitement, as many jumpers are, it's hard to get them to see things from a more rational perspective. Honestly I think that most people can understand this, albeit not agree. So perhaps we could be looking at it (constructively!) from that point of view - how can he safely get more excitement out of a larger canopy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cyn 0 #54 September 17, 2008 QuoteQuoteHis thought process really sounds like someone who has made the decision to do something, then comes up with as many logical points for the decision and then doesn't put the same effort into coming up with points against. Thus once the process is complete you're left with more in the "for" column than the "against" one and obviously you've made a rational decision. This is in stark contrast to taking an objective look at the whole situation and applying logic from there to MAKE the decision. Quote So perhaps we could be looking at it (constructively!) from that point of view - how can he safely get more excitement out of a larger canopy? My confidence in the ability for a dz.com forum discussion to be constructive is, unfortunately, almost non-existant, but I think you're right. It does seem like a better and more positive way to handle it. I can certainly think of a few rediculous ideas to try but I don't think they're actually helpful. My canopy, for me, is still just a way for me to get to the ground though. I'm not at that - i need more thrill under my canopy stage - so I fear I won't be able to add much to that discussion. Although, maybe doing some CRW might be a good idea (obviously with a different canopy)."Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Chris_K 0 #55 September 17, 2008 Steve, Angus and I will take you up for some CREW, or learn how to swoop (gradually) with a 170. You can totally swoop a 170 by the way, making it a real fun ride. I totaly agree with TELEK on how to approach this. I have said all the bad things that can happen to you, coming from a guy who spent TWO YEARS in a wheelchair, and can't stand still due to all the plates, screws, etc now i will offer to take you up and do some fun canopy related jumps, hell to show you how serious I am I will PAY for a few of your jumps, as long as they are on a safer canopy.Downsizing is not the way to prove your manhood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peregrinerose 0 #56 September 17, 2008 The very fact that he can't get excited or thrilled flying larger canopies is the very reason he should be on them. Right now, he's doing conservative box patterns and learning very little on a 136 in the effort to stay alive. On a larger more forgiving canopy, he would be able to learn how to fly the living crap out of them, and THAT is exciting. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LloydDobbler 2 #57 September 17, 2008 Quote On a larger more forgiving canopy, he would be able to learn how to fly the living crap out of them, and THAT is exciting. Oh, that's just what all the alarmists on Dropzone.com say. (Not to mention every one of the PD Factory team I've met, as well as numerous other PST competitors - they've all pointed out that you can swoop the hell out of a more forgiving canopy, and it will make you 10 times the swooper/canopy pilot in the long run). But I'm sure he'd rather listen to the 3 standup/mad skillz folks who've given him the advice he's looking for. Signatures are the new black. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DangerDoug 0 #58 September 17, 2008 Quote The very fact that he can't get excited or thrilled flying larger canopies is the very reason he should be on them. Right now, he's doing conservative box patterns and learning very little on a 136 in the effort to stay alive. On a larger more forgiving canopy, he would be able to learn how to fly the living crap out of them, and THAT is exciting. I agree 100% Everyone should learn to fly the crap out of their current canopy before downsizing. Even with that previous experience, a smaller canopy will give you a sense of fear, and that keeps you alive to learn how to fly the crap out of it before downsizing anymore. Take baby-steps Steve my friend. Learn to swoop your 170 if you want to increase fun. Trust me, you'll scare yourself easily enough with that sometimes, and still have the ability to put down where you want, when you want, especially incase of emergency. Hang in there Steve, everyone's skydiving career is up and down (trust me on this one ) so, take some advise from those that have been around the block a few times and take it slow dude!! We want to see you skydiving for many years to come. Your friend,Danger Doug www.dangerdoug.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Marika 0 #59 September 17, 2008 TALK TO MARTIN STEINKE!!!! For the love of god, Steve, why are we still having this discussion?!? I'm new to PST, and I can't even really claim that because I've had my head up my ass all year and have jumped ONCE... So I don't know how great the riggers are up at the new club. What I do remember was a few years ago at SWOOP, when someone wanted to downsize too fast (you're downsizing far more aggressively) and Steinke told them that he could make a much lower wing loading still really rock their world. As much as I hate to get on the "lets rag on you" bandwagon here - to be fair, you only want to jump in "optimal" conditions, which means you either: 1) Can't have fun unless you're jumping a DANGEROUS canopy or 2) Don't enjoy jumping enough to jump more often with a larger (SAFER) canopy under all conditions. (And don't give me that "but I can't afford to jump, so I need a super high-performance canopy" crap!) I have the opposite problem. I'm underloading my canopy because I don't feel comfortable downsizing from my 190 to a 170. I can't jump if it's too windy, which SUCKS. Why do you want to limit the conditions in which you can jump when you'd get a lot more use out of a 150 or a 170? You know that you shouldn't be jumping this canopy. You KNOW it's a big risk, and that you're going to hurt yourself... You KNOW why you're jumping this canopy... sort out all of that out and don't kill yourself because we all really love hanging out with you. I mean, if you bounced, who else would I be able to sing "Cabin in the Woods" with?!? Seana?When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DangerDoug 0 #60 September 17, 2008 For the love of God Steve listen to Marika!! I hear her now... ...come little rabbit, come with me, happy we will always be! For the record, I don't mean to rag on you, I would hope that you make an educated decision that is in your own best interest. PS, Honestly, a quick google gave me those lyrics, I really don't know the song. Danger Doug www.dangerdoug.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #61 September 17, 2008 QuoteSo instead of trying to persuade him with logic, how about trying to understand the mentality behind these decisions? You mean other than testosterone? I'd love to know why people make these decisions despite being told not to by very experienced and competent jumpers. I have a friend (although I'm not sure he considers me a good friend anymore) who was told by several very competent, experienced and knowledgeable jumpers that a Katana was a bad idea. But all the guys on his team were getting them, and gee, he'd have looked pretty silly being sponsored by PD and flying a big ass Spectre, wouldn't he? He did listen enough to go with a 170 instead of a 150, but he still looked really silly with that logo'ed Katana being held up to shade his broken body in the landing area. It's been a year since that jump. His doctor told him that if he jumps again he needs to find another doctor. But skydivers understand why he wants to jump again. One of the most experienced canopy pilots on our dz told him - again - to go with a big ass Spectre, not with another Katana. Is he going to listen? I doubt it. Is he likely to fuck himself up again? Probably. Will I be driving him to and from surgery and checking on him while he's recovering from his next fuck up like I did last time? Nope. So yeah. If someone could explain the thought processes involved in making these type of decisions, it'd be much appreciated by those of us who want our friends to be able to jump with us next weekend too... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rwieder 0 #62 September 17, 2008 Yo...Bro: All these people can posts all the sentimental posts they wish for you, and what they think you should & shouldn't do. And 99% of them are right. That has nothing to do with what i'm fixing to offer you. This is the time of "Self Examanation" this is what you YOU are reaponseable for, no one else here, no one. I'm not going to give you my opinion, because it mirrors so much of the preceding posts, and it's prety much the same as theirs. And i won't comisserate with you. I'm a Drilling Engineer, my work carries me around the world, literally so I am the "First Line Of Defence" and a First responder, wheher it be fire, man down or any other mehanical failure. Most og the time i have 50-150 souls on board i have to account for all of the time, 00% of the tme. If we ever have to evacuatte the rig, i'm the last man off, this is the waym of it, why doesn't matter. I consider myself culturley diverse, i can't think of any ethnicitity, or someoe whom choses an alternaive lifestly. What i do know is that you YOU ar the only one who can ultimately has to make this decision. I will say this, if i were he DZO or the S&TA, you would not fly my DZ, 3 corner pattern or not. Something else i know is i don't know you, but i know your are a part of "OUR" family, a familiy who cares about the SkyDiving Community as a whole and abroad. I wll close in saying only "Follow You Hewart" and do what you are trained to do, and not what your not trained for. Good Luck, Take Care, Eyes Shut, Ears open for a while God Bless.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites humanflite 0 #63 September 17, 2008 This thread has turned pathetic.... The original poster is clearly an attention seeker and hence why he posted this in DZ incidents forum KNOWING it would stir up a hornets nest! I say you should sell your canpoy and buy a JVX69 or something a little smaller. You will get all the excitment you are seeking then.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freakflydiver 0 #64 September 17, 2008 I'm pretty sure my friend Steve stopped reading this posting as no one here will offer any sign of approval to his decision. Not to violate my friend's privacy but I had a nice talk with him this morning as he's my very close friend and I believe all of you very fine people have finally broke the shell. He came to realize that maybe it wasn't a great idea to downsize like that or maybe he's never got so much hell in his life before and wants us to shut up, but at least he's now considering selling his canopy and buying a 170 semi elliptical. I even suggested a Crossfire 2 189 and he seemed quite interested, so if you know anyone out there who's selling such canopy or that wants to trade for a Samurai 136, please drop him or myself a line. This is a big achievement ladies and gentlemen. My friend Steve is a wonderful person and I love him dearly(in a non-gay way), but oh boy he is the biggest stubborn ass I've ever met. Thank you all for your effort, it was well worth it. I am proud and happy to have such a great family of people who care about each other and have so much respect and love for the sport that will not allow anyone to ruin the fun for others. Freakfly.ca coming soon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peregrinerose 0 #65 September 18, 2008 For what it's worth, if this is true, you can guarantee Steve a genuine Peregrinerose-hug if/when we ever run across each other at a DZ. He would have earned major respect from me if he actually does upsize to a less aggressive canopy, and THAT is the kind of skydiver I'd like to call a friend. Humility is a tough pill to swallow in this sport (I know, had to take some healthy doses of it myself, and probably will again in the future), but it's the mark of a truly wise mind that can learn and adapt and change. He'll be a better role model for it as well. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyjunkySean 0 #66 September 18, 2008 OK I have read every post in here so here is my two cents...I downsized rapidly...from a student 230, 188,sabre2170,sabre150...and finally to a SAMURAI 150...I gotta tell ya that SAMwas badass!!! way too badass for me as on feb 26th at perris on a beautiful winter day I hooked in. Thank God it had been raining all week because I did crater...left a 6 inch deep divit. The cost...shattered pelvis, femur, sacrum,and a coupla compressed vertebrae. Not to mention several severely damaged internal organs. I am sitting here almost 7 months later still barely able to walk or pee regularly. I had my canopy loaded at 1.43 and was told by my coaches that if I respected it and was ALWAYS on my game I should be allright. Well all it takes is ONE brainfart. Dude I dont know you or your skills, I do know this though, limited experience on a fast unforgiving canopy will get you very dead. If ya dont believe me, PM me n I let ya look at my Xrays n records....they say I died 4 times while they were putting me back together...I hope I can get back in the air sometime in the next year. The Sam....is sold....next canopy Lotus 170 or sabre2 170....for at least 400/500 jumps. Sorry to ramble but this is a first person perspective. Blue skies, Sean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zeppo 0 #67 September 18, 2008 I've given it thought - and freak is right with what he said. Based on the few jumps that I've had with it...it's too much Some key things some people have mentioned on here have sunk in...some of them including, setting a proper example, emergency situations, if something were to go wrong, or something unexpected, at this point, I doubt I would have the skill to save my ass. So...anyone wanna buy a Samurai 136??? Perhaps to trade for a stiletto 170??? (come on...I need some fun under canopy)What goes up, must come DOWN!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peregrinerose 0 #68 September 18, 2008 What I'd strongly suggest doing is take advantage of PDs demo program before buying anything. It's like $50 and you get whatever canopy for 2 weekends to play with. Try a 170 Sabre2 (just as much fun as a stilletto but more reliable opens), Spectre (and it's possible to have a blast on a Spectre... I have one), Storm (and let me know what you think, I want to try that one myself!). See if you can get a Safire2 demo, and a Pilot to demo. These are all great canopies. If you want to dabble in CRW training at some point, lean toward the Spectre or Storm. If you want to fly camera, think Sabre2, Pilot, or Spectre (maybe Storm? I don't know much about that one) You have lots of options, try a lot of different 170s out, write down everything you like/don't like about each one, and compare at the end. Make sure you play with getting back from a long spot on all of them, and with accuracy. Have fun! Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zeppo 0 #69 September 18, 2008 Unfortunately, In canada, we dont have access to the Pd program,..something about shipping across the border.What goes up, must come DOWN!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peregrinerose 0 #70 September 18, 2008 That sucks If I was picking for you, I'd pick Sabre2.... definitely sporty, fun, great openings, versitile. A good friend of mine can swoop the living shit out of his, so you really can get a lot out of it as you learn to fly it very well. Mine is too small for you or I'd ship it up and let you play with it for a while (I jump a 150 spectre and 135 Sabre 2, love 'em both, but the Sabre2 would give you the more zippy response that it sounds like you want) Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cyn 0 #71 September 18, 2008 QuoteUnfortunately, In canada, we dont have access to the Pd program,..something about shipping across the border. Hey there. Could you get them to ship it to Frontier Skydivers (right across the border) - near Lewiston? The people there are super super nice. If you need someone to vouch for you (as long as you're not getting something dumb) let me know. That's where I got my USPA licences."Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RMURRAY 1 #72 September 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteUnfortunately, In canada, we dont have access to the Pd program,..something about shipping across the border. Hey there. Could you get them to ship it to Frontier Skydivers (right across the border) - near Lewiston? The people there are super super nice. If you need someone to vouch for you (as long as you're not getting something dumb) let me know. That's where I got my USPA licences. zeppo, my opinion. being across the border from PD, forget the trouble of a demo. I brought up a firebolt 182 for people to try out (was hoping you would give a try after your ankle injury healed by the way) and it cost me a bunch. I would try out a sabre2 170 which is on the DZ - just borrow it for a couple of jumps. "cyn" has one if I remember right. R Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites humanflite 0 #73 September 18, 2008 Quote I've given it thought - and freak is right with what he said. Based on the few jumps that I've had with it...it's too much Some key things some people have mentioned on here have sunk in...some of them including, setting a proper example, emergency situations, if something were to go wrong, or something unexpected, at this point, I doubt I would have the skill to save my ass. So...anyone wanna buy a Samurai 136??? Perhaps to trade for a stiletto 170??? (come on...I need some fun under canopy) Thats the wisest thing you have said yet... Good decision dude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cyn 0 #74 September 18, 2008 Quote I would try out a sabre2 170 which is on the DZ - just borrow it for a couple of jumps. "cyn" has one if I remember right. R Gee thanks rob. Cyn doesn't share well with others and suffers from separation anxiety when parted from her new sabre2. I'm starting to hyperventilate just thinking about someone else jumping it. I might be inclined to lend it out in the interest of safety but if anything happens to it I"ll have to rip steve's face off and various other very unpleasant things. I hope Steve will be prepared to drive me home to hamilton too because i won't be able to see through the waterfall of tears and I may pass out due to shock. omg I think I just blacked out for a second. I know I grumble about hating her every time i pack her but it's only said in anger. She and I have an understanding. If I can find some sedatives you can jump my sabre 2 Steve."Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydude89 0 #75 September 18, 2008 I think aerodyne would ship u a pilot to try we had a pilot demo in kamloops for a bit. I bought a pilot 168 and the openings r so nice and its a fun canopy to fly, i had a saber 170 before this 1, and the openings on the saber sucked ass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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cyn 0 #52 September 17, 2008 Zep, what you're doing kinda reminds me of what my daughter used to do when trying to convince me to buy sugary cereal. She'd look at the nutrition facts on the side of the box and ignore the sugar, carbs, calories, fat etc (all the bad stuff) and focus on the 3 grams of protien or 20% of her iron requirement. You're choosing to listen to the 1 or 2 people who are telling you what you want to hear and not the many many other people that know you & are telling you what you need to hear because they care about you. I, personally, can't stand some of the alarmist attitudes that people get on DZ.com or drama.com as some people call it. I've never been a big fan of people that don't know me telling me that they care about me & my safety & know what's best for me or flaming people for making simple comments or asking questions. I don't think I've made any secret of that. I mean we're all making our own choices in the end and not everyone has to agree with them i guess. But seriously, dude, listen to the people who actually know you. I know my jump numbers are much lower than yours & I'm not saying you should listen to me. I'm just saying you should listen to ALL the people around you who know you & are offering you good advice for your safety because they really do care, not just the couple that you want to listen to. I don't get what you're doing at all. What's the point?"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Telek 0 #53 September 17, 2008 QuoteLook how many of your friends have posted here. Let's do a count of people that have posted in this thread that PERSONALLY know you and have jumped with you. Jim S Chris K Adam G Peter C Fuzzy Freak Chris S Let's add a few more to that list who haven't posted who disagree with his choices: Sean Marika Jeff K Adam M (The DZO!) Alex T Mikhail Cyn Vic Doug R Shelley R Fez ... and the list goes on. and I bet that I know the 3 that he is speaking of (who said it's ok to jump that canopy), and I honestly wouldn't take their opinions with much weight as they are all crater bait and reckless and there are several people with far more experience who are recommending against it. At our dropzone there have been at least a dozen people that I have personally spoken with who disagree with his choices vs the few who do. His thought process really sounds like someone who has made the decision to do something, then comes up with as many logical points for the decision and then doesn't put the same effort into coming up with points against. Thus once the process is complete you're left with more in the "for" column than the "against" one and obviously you've made a rational decision. This is in stark contrast to taking an objective look at the whole situation and applying logic from there to MAKE the decision. Part of what really frustrates me with this one is that at least two very experienced and reasonable people have separately taken him aside and told him not to jump that canopy. I'm sorry, but if I was in his position and I had those people come up to me then I would have reconsidered my position, and I am not the most cautious jumper known to man. So instead of trying to persuade him with logic, how about trying to understand the mentality behind these decisions? The biggest issue I think that is really here is that he is bored with the canopies that he should be jumping. For someone who is looking for excitement, as many jumpers are, it's hard to get them to see things from a more rational perspective. Honestly I think that most people can understand this, albeit not agree. So perhaps we could be looking at it (constructively!) from that point of view - how can he safely get more excitement out of a larger canopy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyn 0 #54 September 17, 2008 QuoteQuoteHis thought process really sounds like someone who has made the decision to do something, then comes up with as many logical points for the decision and then doesn't put the same effort into coming up with points against. Thus once the process is complete you're left with more in the "for" column than the "against" one and obviously you've made a rational decision. This is in stark contrast to taking an objective look at the whole situation and applying logic from there to MAKE the decision. Quote So perhaps we could be looking at it (constructively!) from that point of view - how can he safely get more excitement out of a larger canopy? My confidence in the ability for a dz.com forum discussion to be constructive is, unfortunately, almost non-existant, but I think you're right. It does seem like a better and more positive way to handle it. I can certainly think of a few rediculous ideas to try but I don't think they're actually helpful. My canopy, for me, is still just a way for me to get to the ground though. I'm not at that - i need more thrill under my canopy stage - so I fear I won't be able to add much to that discussion. Although, maybe doing some CRW might be a good idea (obviously with a different canopy)."Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris_K 0 #55 September 17, 2008 Steve, Angus and I will take you up for some CREW, or learn how to swoop (gradually) with a 170. You can totally swoop a 170 by the way, making it a real fun ride. I totaly agree with TELEK on how to approach this. I have said all the bad things that can happen to you, coming from a guy who spent TWO YEARS in a wheelchair, and can't stand still due to all the plates, screws, etc now i will offer to take you up and do some fun canopy related jumps, hell to show you how serious I am I will PAY for a few of your jumps, as long as they are on a safer canopy.Downsizing is not the way to prove your manhood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #56 September 17, 2008 The very fact that he can't get excited or thrilled flying larger canopies is the very reason he should be on them. Right now, he's doing conservative box patterns and learning very little on a 136 in the effort to stay alive. On a larger more forgiving canopy, he would be able to learn how to fly the living crap out of them, and THAT is exciting. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LloydDobbler 2 #57 September 17, 2008 Quote On a larger more forgiving canopy, he would be able to learn how to fly the living crap out of them, and THAT is exciting. Oh, that's just what all the alarmists on Dropzone.com say. (Not to mention every one of the PD Factory team I've met, as well as numerous other PST competitors - they've all pointed out that you can swoop the hell out of a more forgiving canopy, and it will make you 10 times the swooper/canopy pilot in the long run). But I'm sure he'd rather listen to the 3 standup/mad skillz folks who've given him the advice he's looking for. Signatures are the new black. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DangerDoug 0 #58 September 17, 2008 Quote The very fact that he can't get excited or thrilled flying larger canopies is the very reason he should be on them. Right now, he's doing conservative box patterns and learning very little on a 136 in the effort to stay alive. On a larger more forgiving canopy, he would be able to learn how to fly the living crap out of them, and THAT is exciting. I agree 100% Everyone should learn to fly the crap out of their current canopy before downsizing. Even with that previous experience, a smaller canopy will give you a sense of fear, and that keeps you alive to learn how to fly the crap out of it before downsizing anymore. Take baby-steps Steve my friend. Learn to swoop your 170 if you want to increase fun. Trust me, you'll scare yourself easily enough with that sometimes, and still have the ability to put down where you want, when you want, especially incase of emergency. Hang in there Steve, everyone's skydiving career is up and down (trust me on this one ) so, take some advise from those that have been around the block a few times and take it slow dude!! We want to see you skydiving for many years to come. Your friend,Danger Doug www.dangerdoug.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marika 0 #59 September 17, 2008 TALK TO MARTIN STEINKE!!!! For the love of god, Steve, why are we still having this discussion?!? I'm new to PST, and I can't even really claim that because I've had my head up my ass all year and have jumped ONCE... So I don't know how great the riggers are up at the new club. What I do remember was a few years ago at SWOOP, when someone wanted to downsize too fast (you're downsizing far more aggressively) and Steinke told them that he could make a much lower wing loading still really rock their world. As much as I hate to get on the "lets rag on you" bandwagon here - to be fair, you only want to jump in "optimal" conditions, which means you either: 1) Can't have fun unless you're jumping a DANGEROUS canopy or 2) Don't enjoy jumping enough to jump more often with a larger (SAFER) canopy under all conditions. (And don't give me that "but I can't afford to jump, so I need a super high-performance canopy" crap!) I have the opposite problem. I'm underloading my canopy because I don't feel comfortable downsizing from my 190 to a 170. I can't jump if it's too windy, which SUCKS. Why do you want to limit the conditions in which you can jump when you'd get a lot more use out of a 150 or a 170? You know that you shouldn't be jumping this canopy. You KNOW it's a big risk, and that you're going to hurt yourself... You KNOW why you're jumping this canopy... sort out all of that out and don't kill yourself because we all really love hanging out with you. I mean, if you bounced, who else would I be able to sing "Cabin in the Woods" with?!? Seana?When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DangerDoug 0 #60 September 17, 2008 For the love of God Steve listen to Marika!! I hear her now... ...come little rabbit, come with me, happy we will always be! For the record, I don't mean to rag on you, I would hope that you make an educated decision that is in your own best interest. PS, Honestly, a quick google gave me those lyrics, I really don't know the song. Danger Doug www.dangerdoug.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #61 September 17, 2008 QuoteSo instead of trying to persuade him with logic, how about trying to understand the mentality behind these decisions? You mean other than testosterone? I'd love to know why people make these decisions despite being told not to by very experienced and competent jumpers. I have a friend (although I'm not sure he considers me a good friend anymore) who was told by several very competent, experienced and knowledgeable jumpers that a Katana was a bad idea. But all the guys on his team were getting them, and gee, he'd have looked pretty silly being sponsored by PD and flying a big ass Spectre, wouldn't he? He did listen enough to go with a 170 instead of a 150, but he still looked really silly with that logo'ed Katana being held up to shade his broken body in the landing area. It's been a year since that jump. His doctor told him that if he jumps again he needs to find another doctor. But skydivers understand why he wants to jump again. One of the most experienced canopy pilots on our dz told him - again - to go with a big ass Spectre, not with another Katana. Is he going to listen? I doubt it. Is he likely to fuck himself up again? Probably. Will I be driving him to and from surgery and checking on him while he's recovering from his next fuck up like I did last time? Nope. So yeah. If someone could explain the thought processes involved in making these type of decisions, it'd be much appreciated by those of us who want our friends to be able to jump with us next weekend too... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #62 September 17, 2008 Yo...Bro: All these people can posts all the sentimental posts they wish for you, and what they think you should & shouldn't do. And 99% of them are right. That has nothing to do with what i'm fixing to offer you. This is the time of "Self Examanation" this is what you YOU are reaponseable for, no one else here, no one. I'm not going to give you my opinion, because it mirrors so much of the preceding posts, and it's prety much the same as theirs. And i won't comisserate with you. I'm a Drilling Engineer, my work carries me around the world, literally so I am the "First Line Of Defence" and a First responder, wheher it be fire, man down or any other mehanical failure. Most og the time i have 50-150 souls on board i have to account for all of the time, 00% of the tme. If we ever have to evacuatte the rig, i'm the last man off, this is the waym of it, why doesn't matter. I consider myself culturley diverse, i can't think of any ethnicitity, or someoe whom choses an alternaive lifestly. What i do know is that you YOU ar the only one who can ultimately has to make this decision. I will say this, if i were he DZO or the S&TA, you would not fly my DZ, 3 corner pattern or not. Something else i know is i don't know you, but i know your are a part of "OUR" family, a familiy who cares about the SkyDiving Community as a whole and abroad. I wll close in saying only "Follow You Hewart" and do what you are trained to do, and not what your not trained for. Good Luck, Take Care, Eyes Shut, Ears open for a while God Bless.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #63 September 17, 2008 This thread has turned pathetic.... The original poster is clearly an attention seeker and hence why he posted this in DZ incidents forum KNOWING it would stir up a hornets nest! I say you should sell your canpoy and buy a JVX69 or something a little smaller. You will get all the excitment you are seeking then.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakflydiver 0 #64 September 17, 2008 I'm pretty sure my friend Steve stopped reading this posting as no one here will offer any sign of approval to his decision. Not to violate my friend's privacy but I had a nice talk with him this morning as he's my very close friend and I believe all of you very fine people have finally broke the shell. He came to realize that maybe it wasn't a great idea to downsize like that or maybe he's never got so much hell in his life before and wants us to shut up, but at least he's now considering selling his canopy and buying a 170 semi elliptical. I even suggested a Crossfire 2 189 and he seemed quite interested, so if you know anyone out there who's selling such canopy or that wants to trade for a Samurai 136, please drop him or myself a line. This is a big achievement ladies and gentlemen. My friend Steve is a wonderful person and I love him dearly(in a non-gay way), but oh boy he is the biggest stubborn ass I've ever met. Thank you all for your effort, it was well worth it. I am proud and happy to have such a great family of people who care about each other and have so much respect and love for the sport that will not allow anyone to ruin the fun for others. Freakfly.ca coming soon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #65 September 18, 2008 For what it's worth, if this is true, you can guarantee Steve a genuine Peregrinerose-hug if/when we ever run across each other at a DZ. He would have earned major respect from me if he actually does upsize to a less aggressive canopy, and THAT is the kind of skydiver I'd like to call a friend. Humility is a tough pill to swallow in this sport (I know, had to take some healthy doses of it myself, and probably will again in the future), but it's the mark of a truly wise mind that can learn and adapt and change. He'll be a better role model for it as well. Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyjunkySean 0 #66 September 18, 2008 OK I have read every post in here so here is my two cents...I downsized rapidly...from a student 230, 188,sabre2170,sabre150...and finally to a SAMURAI 150...I gotta tell ya that SAMwas badass!!! way too badass for me as on feb 26th at perris on a beautiful winter day I hooked in. Thank God it had been raining all week because I did crater...left a 6 inch deep divit. The cost...shattered pelvis, femur, sacrum,and a coupla compressed vertebrae. Not to mention several severely damaged internal organs. I am sitting here almost 7 months later still barely able to walk or pee regularly. I had my canopy loaded at 1.43 and was told by my coaches that if I respected it and was ALWAYS on my game I should be allright. Well all it takes is ONE brainfart. Dude I dont know you or your skills, I do know this though, limited experience on a fast unforgiving canopy will get you very dead. If ya dont believe me, PM me n I let ya look at my Xrays n records....they say I died 4 times while they were putting me back together...I hope I can get back in the air sometime in the next year. The Sam....is sold....next canopy Lotus 170 or sabre2 170....for at least 400/500 jumps. Sorry to ramble but this is a first person perspective. Blue skies, Sean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeppo 0 #67 September 18, 2008 I've given it thought - and freak is right with what he said. Based on the few jumps that I've had with it...it's too much Some key things some people have mentioned on here have sunk in...some of them including, setting a proper example, emergency situations, if something were to go wrong, or something unexpected, at this point, I doubt I would have the skill to save my ass. So...anyone wanna buy a Samurai 136??? Perhaps to trade for a stiletto 170??? (come on...I need some fun under canopy)What goes up, must come DOWN!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #68 September 18, 2008 What I'd strongly suggest doing is take advantage of PDs demo program before buying anything. It's like $50 and you get whatever canopy for 2 weekends to play with. Try a 170 Sabre2 (just as much fun as a stilletto but more reliable opens), Spectre (and it's possible to have a blast on a Spectre... I have one), Storm (and let me know what you think, I want to try that one myself!). See if you can get a Safire2 demo, and a Pilot to demo. These are all great canopies. If you want to dabble in CRW training at some point, lean toward the Spectre or Storm. If you want to fly camera, think Sabre2, Pilot, or Spectre (maybe Storm? I don't know much about that one) You have lots of options, try a lot of different 170s out, write down everything you like/don't like about each one, and compare at the end. Make sure you play with getting back from a long spot on all of them, and with accuracy. Have fun! Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeppo 0 #69 September 18, 2008 Unfortunately, In canada, we dont have access to the Pd program,..something about shipping across the border.What goes up, must come DOWN!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #70 September 18, 2008 That sucks If I was picking for you, I'd pick Sabre2.... definitely sporty, fun, great openings, versitile. A good friend of mine can swoop the living shit out of his, so you really can get a lot out of it as you learn to fly it very well. Mine is too small for you or I'd ship it up and let you play with it for a while (I jump a 150 spectre and 135 Sabre 2, love 'em both, but the Sabre2 would give you the more zippy response that it sounds like you want) Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyn 0 #71 September 18, 2008 QuoteUnfortunately, In canada, we dont have access to the Pd program,..something about shipping across the border. Hey there. Could you get them to ship it to Frontier Skydivers (right across the border) - near Lewiston? The people there are super super nice. If you need someone to vouch for you (as long as you're not getting something dumb) let me know. That's where I got my USPA licences."Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #72 September 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteUnfortunately, In canada, we dont have access to the Pd program,..something about shipping across the border. Hey there. Could you get them to ship it to Frontier Skydivers (right across the border) - near Lewiston? The people there are super super nice. If you need someone to vouch for you (as long as you're not getting something dumb) let me know. That's where I got my USPA licences. zeppo, my opinion. being across the border from PD, forget the trouble of a demo. I brought up a firebolt 182 for people to try out (was hoping you would give a try after your ankle injury healed by the way) and it cost me a bunch. I would try out a sabre2 170 which is on the DZ - just borrow it for a couple of jumps. "cyn" has one if I remember right. R Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #73 September 18, 2008 Quote I've given it thought - and freak is right with what he said. Based on the few jumps that I've had with it...it's too much Some key things some people have mentioned on here have sunk in...some of them including, setting a proper example, emergency situations, if something were to go wrong, or something unexpected, at this point, I doubt I would have the skill to save my ass. So...anyone wanna buy a Samurai 136??? Perhaps to trade for a stiletto 170??? (come on...I need some fun under canopy) Thats the wisest thing you have said yet... Good decision dude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cyn 0 #74 September 18, 2008 Quote I would try out a sabre2 170 which is on the DZ - just borrow it for a couple of jumps. "cyn" has one if I remember right. R Gee thanks rob. Cyn doesn't share well with others and suffers from separation anxiety when parted from her new sabre2. I'm starting to hyperventilate just thinking about someone else jumping it. I might be inclined to lend it out in the interest of safety but if anything happens to it I"ll have to rip steve's face off and various other very unpleasant things. I hope Steve will be prepared to drive me home to hamilton too because i won't be able to see through the waterfall of tears and I may pass out due to shock. omg I think I just blacked out for a second. I know I grumble about hating her every time i pack her but it's only said in anger. She and I have an understanding. If I can find some sedatives you can jump my sabre 2 Steve."Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydude89 0 #75 September 18, 2008 I think aerodyne would ship u a pilot to try we had a pilot demo in kamloops for a bit. I bought a pilot 168 and the openings r so nice and its a fun canopy to fly, i had a saber 170 before this 1, and the openings on the saber sucked ass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
