councilman24 36 #26 March 16, 2013 The FAA authorization for me to test for lap parachute ratings was signed Friday March 15th. FAA riggers may now add lap rating to their certificate by appointment. More information concerning details later.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #27 March 16, 2013 Hee! Hee! May I make an appointment to "test" during the PIA Symposium? Where is the nearest FAA FSDO to Daytona Beach? What if I bring a lap-type PEP that I sewed myself? ... a lap-type that requires zero hand-tacking? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #28 March 16, 2013 Well first you have to pack 19 under my supervision. You already have one. Or was it two?But of course I can't test outside of my FSDO area without approval from each and inspection of my alternate facility. IF I had more than a week I might look into it but in reality there wouldn't be time to supervise and test in Daytona. And for everyone this is a REAL rating that needs to meet all of the experience and testing requirements, including fees. I'll start talking seriously about folks coming to Michigan if they want after PIA. No time before. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #29 March 17, 2013 Hee! Hee! Yes, I packed two lap-type parachutes - under your supervision - during the last PIA Symposium. Just to mess with regulations ... since my Canadian Rigger B rating includes all types of PEPs .. I will just sign off lap-type PEPs under my Canadian license. Now, if I pack twenty laps - under my Canadian license - can I then test for the FAA lap-type rating???? Hee! Hee! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John_snurkowski 0 #30 March 4, 2015 who manufactured your parachute? and was it made specifically for you? and is it tso'd ? also i just found this picture on ebay! it says early thirties Sig Wilson of Marquette Michigan is the guy in the picture. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #31 March 4, 2015 Councilman' slap chute was seen by Jerry Baumchen and all the FAA paperwork is legal, since Mr. Baumchen has held FAA approval to build parachutes for more than 30 years. I have also seen a couple of lap-type chutes, but do not need gov't approval since I live in Canada. My lap-types are based on Jerry's designs, but the harness is easier to don. Jerry's designs are based I. Military patterns from the 1930s. There has been no significant lap production since the 1930s. However, there is a limited modern demand for laps by test-pilots flying the first few hours in kit planes that have tight cockpits, side-mounted control sticks, etc. That old photograph looks like it dates from the 1920s and it looks like the guy is wearing a regular SEAT type PEP backwards. Hint: there is no visible hardware to allow him to release the chest strap(s) after landing. Another hint is the coiled metal ripcord housing sticking out the right side of the container. Traditionally, PEP ripcords are mounted on the left side or centre of the chest. Back and seat type PEPs have ripcord pockets on the left side of the chest. Chest or lap type PEPs may have centre-pull ripcords. No ripcord handle is visible in this photo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #32 March 4, 2015 Rob told you who made it. Jerry is the manufacturer, it is TSO'd and last I knew I think he had only built the one. I helped design it and am a co-author of the manual. As Rob said he's built a couple but they are not TSO'd (don't have to be in Canada) and are not legal in the US. I've seen that photo before and it is a seat worn backwards as Rob pointed out. I have several photos in books of lap parachutes and now some Soviet copies. I also have an original photographic print of Leslie Irvin modeling his lap parachute (as well as prints with back seat and chest)from around 1930. They have center pull ripcords on the container. I've never found any indication any other company than Irving Parachutes built a lap before Jerry. By the time Irvin's patents ran out the airplanes that used laps were out of date. I've finally learned, from a Ukrainian rigger, what type of airplane it was used in.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #33 March 4, 2015 Okay councilman, Please don't keep us in suspense any longer .... What type of Ukrainian airplane used lap-type chutes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #34 March 4, 2015 No no. It was an American airplane, similar designs and uses copied by the Soviets. And I have to save something for the PIA Symposium. It was enlightening having someone as nuts about a lap rating as me from a Soviet block country come get the rating and share what he found in searches behind the old iron curtain. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,046 #35 March 5, 2015 Hi Terry, Quotelast I knew I think he had only built the one. Two, Jim has one also. It was a team effort, remember? Jerry Baumchen PS) Seatpack went out today via USPS. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #36 March 5, 2015 Wasn't sure if you ever made Jim's or not. Couldn't remember. I'm old for my age.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #37 March 16, 2015 :-)Always remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #38 February 4, 2017 Hi Terry and Jerry, Are you guys planning to present a seminar on lap-chutes during the 2017 PIA Symposium? Sorry but I will not be able to attend. Since we last met, I sewn together third and fourth generation lap packs. These new lap packs incorporate two major innovations: aprons and reversed leg straps. Both innovations simplify dressing. The apron starts at the shoulder junctions and extends all the way forward under the container ... sort of a backwards version of the extended back pad installed on modern seat-packs. The apron/bib does such a good job of keeping shoulder straps in place that a horizontal chest strap may be superfluess. The hole between the back pad and front apron is barely big enough to pass a helmet. The most important part of the apron is its riser covers. Velcroed riser covers completely cover risers all the way from shoulder joints to the inside of the container. The next variable is to determine how wide a "lap" is needed to accommodate seat belts. My first guess is 6 inches to accept 4 inch wide aerobatic seatbelts. Reversed leg straps are not a new invention. My Eze-Flyer harness incorporated reversed leg straps that were more comfortable than any conventional harness I have ever worn. Lower/rear leg straps were so short that B12 Snaps barely hung below hip joints. OTOH upper/front leg straps were so long they wrapped completely around my thighs. Adjustable V-Rings completed the ends of the upper/front leg straps. These innovations simplify dressing. Lay the harness face down on a wing or table. Step into the leg straps. Dive into the yoke head first. Tighten leg straps. Tighten both horizontal side straps. Board airplane. Sorry that I cannot post photos as black webbing and black binding tape do not provide much contrast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob_Church 7 #39 February 4, 2017 JerryBaumchenHi Terry, Quotelast I knew I think he had only built the one. Two, Jim has one also. It was a team effort, remember? Jerry Baumchen PS) Seatpack went out today via USPS. Do you pack emergency rigs? And if so could I mail mine to you for an i/r? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #40 February 4, 2017 If I come, planning on it right now, I'll have it with me but not scheduled for a seminar. I figured milking it for three in a row was enough. I did find that I HAD a photo with a gunner wearing one NEXT to the dual cockpit biplane it was used in. Didn't realize I had it. It was the final thing I didn't have to put the original laps in context. They needed laps for these gunners because they sat in a sling and didn't have room behind their back or on their chest to operate and traverse the machine gun. The lap was on their thighs under the shelf below the rim of the cockpit that held the magazines.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob_Church 7 #41 February 4, 2017 SEREJumperMade it Clicky! http://www.parachuteshop.com/lap%20parachute.htm I know it's very different but it sure looks a lot like the first reserve I opened. It was a low mount belly wart. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,046 #42 February 5, 2017 Hi Bob, QuoteDo you pack emergency rigs? No longer. I do not have access to a proper packing table for rounds and my back will no longer let me pack rigs when on my knees. C'est la vie, Jerry Baumchen PS) Contact Terry Urban ( councilman24 ) as I think that he does. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,046 #43 February 5, 2017 Hi Rob, QuoteSorry that I cannot post photos as black webbing and black binding tape do not provide much contrast. Put the rig on & try to find someone with a good digital camera; the photos should come thru OK. I'll be there but just attending, Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
