Hop and Pop issues

[johnbamburg 1]

Baksteen

Too right! I remember that first scary, long, slowly flat-sprinning freefall from 12k all too well


To the OP, personally i have never managed to nail a solo floater exit from side door aircraft (Caravan, C206, Otter).
I prefer to jump sideways from within the plane.

I prefer the same. But I realize that as I progress into RW with others. I need to be able to handle a floater exit with at least some proficiency.
I'm re-doing the HnPs tomorrow. I don't see a problem anymore.
" I Got My Mind Right Now, Boss ". I know there's plenty of time and I'll just watch the airplane and take the time.

What you do speaks so loud, I can't hear what you say.

[Baksteen 84]

johnbamburg

I realize that as I progress into RW with others. I need to be able to handle a floater exit with at least some proficiency.

That has nothing to do with the best or most comfortable exit for a hop n pop.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[Andrei_Serban 1]

John, you are not alone :) in fact I'm doing much worse, having managed only 4 or 5 stable exits out of my 52 jumps so far, and these were all dive exits towards the rear. All attempts at a stable floater exit (or, for that matter, any exit "into the wind") were thwarted by my brain "locking" the moment I jumped off. The results (as seen on video) reminded one very much of a chicken's flapping and kicking right after having its head cut off :)

I would always stabilize after 2-3 seconds, but exiting is still a psychological threshold for me, and a source of constant frustration. I feel that I need to get it right in order to do formation jumps, and also hop'n'pops for canopy practice.

Anyway, keep us posted about how it went this Friday.

Cheers,
Andrei

[dthames 0]

Andrei_Serban

John, you are not alone :) in fact I'm doing much worse, having managed only 4 or 5 stable exits out of my 52 jumps so far, and these were all dive exits towards the rear. All attempts at a stable floater exit (or, for that matter, any exit "into the wind") were thwarted by my brain "locking" the moment I jumped off. The results (as seen on video) reminded one very much of a chicken's flapping and kicking right after having its head cut off :)

I would always stabilize after 2-3 seconds, but exiting is still a psychological threshold for me, and a source of constant frustration. I feel that I need to get it right in order to do formation jumps, and also hop'n'pops for canopy practice.

Anyway, keep us posted about how it went this Friday.

Cheers,
Andrei

People with experience have a hard time remembering exactly what things are like when your experience is little or lacking. So I am not saying do this or that this is a good approach.

Visualize in your mind how you would exit and react if you exited with your eyes closed and kept them closed for a few seconds.

If you visualize that, what do you see?
What do you feel?

I am curious. I know what I feel and what I imagine.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[sundevil777 93]

dthames

***John, you are not alone :) in fact I'm doing much worse, having managed only 4 or 5 stable exits out of my 52 jumps so far, and these were all dive exits towards the rear. All attempts at a stable floater exit (or, for that matter, any exit "into the wind") were thwarted by my brain "locking" the moment I jumped off. The results (as seen on video) reminded one very much of a chicken's flapping and kicking right after having its head cut off :)

I would always stabilize after 2-3 seconds, but exiting is still a psychological threshold for me, and a source of constant frustration. I feel that I need to get it right in order to do formation jumps, and also hop'n'pops for canopy practice.

Anyway, keep us posted about how it went this Friday.

Cheers,
Andrei

People with experience have a hard time remembering exactly what things are like when your experience is little or lacking. So I am not saying do this or that this is a good approach.

Visualize in your mind how you would exit and react if you exited with your eyes closed and kept them closed for a few seconds.

If you visualize that, what do you see?
What do you feel?

I am curious. I know what I feel and what I imagine.

That reminds me of an exit I did so long ago from a C-182 long ago on a completely dark-no moonlight night jump. We launched a 4 way and pulled it off perfectly. We all talked after the jump about how it felt so easy, perhaps in part because we had no reference to the horizon, we just flew the relative wind. Those having issues probably would do well to close their eyes for a couple seconds, it would be pretty fun also.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[PixieUK 0]

johnbamburg

I'm sure this has been covered before. I can't find where exactly so I thought I'd ask for what at least has to be...again.
I'm coming to the end of AFP. I've had pretty decent exits and very little stability problems through out. Yet it got really strange when it came time to do the hop and pops.
On 2 attempts. I seemed to get "brain lock" or something. My exits were very bad and I ended up pulling, once in a spin and another almost in a sitting position. Just totally wrong and as if I'd never had any real training at all.
Let me say that my instructors are the best and my training has been great. Even the training for these hop and pop attempts.
I'm having a "Do Over" this weekend. I can't figure out why this suddenly got so difficult when nothing else really has been. I know there is plenty of time for these. Why am I acting like there's no time to get stable and pull? It's like I've got a brain lock.
Am I the only one whose had problems like this. Allot of the folks at the DZ just laugh. And I really can't blame them.

Not particularly helpful for people to laugh, as loads of newbies do have this issue (it's AFF in the UK, but very similar principles).

The way I got mine straight in my head was to deconstruct my altitudes from the ground up. At the time I was entering a pattern at around 1500', turning crosswind at around 1000' and turning onto final at 500'. So my first criteria was to be in a position to leave my holding area at somewhere between 1500 and 2000' depending on where exactly I was and what the wind conditions were.

So that meant I needed to be under a stable canopy having done my checks by 2000'. And my hop and pop was to be at nearly double that height, at sub-terminal speeds so a nice soft opening. That helped put it all into perspective for me and reduced my fear quite dramatically. We had to do dive exits for our Level 8 (the hop and pop qualifying jump) to simulate an aircraft emergency but if you can do a float exit, that's actually much easier as your chest is already presented to the wind, just keep your chin up and let go
Don't fret about exits for RW and canopy work at this stage - RW exits rarely resemble student exits as people are usually holding grips and need to make space for other people to have air to fly in - it's an unnecessary complication for you to think about for a hop and pop.

When I did my level 8, my instructor said the key thing to do was to pull, better was to pull stable, and better yet was to be stable, check my altimeter and pull. You have already demonstrated you can leave the aircraft at a relatively low altitude and pull, so now you just need to go up one level and be stable before pulling
Another tip I was given was to not look down as I exited. Presumably you have an instructor who will supervise your exit so they will do the spotting for you. All you need to do is focus on the exit, so keep your eyes on the wing, take a deep breath, let it out slowly, take another one and go

A mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original dimensions - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr

[ufk22 32]

You are exiting into sub-terminal air. Your arms and legs are going to have much less effect as control surfaces.
Consequently, your initial presentation needs to be more controlled into the relative wind.
From floater, just open up your left side and arch. Keep your hands and feet still for a few seconds, then deploy.
This is one time a "hard arch" is much more effective than relaxed arms and legs.
Remember the relative wind and don't try to get belly to earth.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[johnbamburg 1]

Well,
I have to say thank you to everyone who help me through this little issue.
I finally realized that no matter the altitude...The hill is the hill.
Relaxing and making a good presentation into the relative wind on the 5500' floater exit HnP riding the hill and pulling toward the end was suddenly easy.
The samte with the 3500', diving exit HnP. The same hill....pull toward the end.
It all went down with no issues once I wrapped my mind around the fact that altitude really doesn't matter when pulling this close to exit.
I'm now on to self supervised solos and a feww jumps away from my A license check dive. Thanks to everyone

What you do speaks so loud, I can't hear what you say.

[dthames 0]

Well done!

Next challenge.....

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[catfishhunter 1]

johnbamburg

******We have both a King Air and a Caravan at the DZ. Both of these ridiculously poor Hop and Pops were out of the Van. And yes it was from a "floater" position outside.

Not to contradict your instructors, but the general point of (a) low hop & pop(s) as part of training for AFF students is for at least one such exit to be un-poised, to simulate the conditions of an emergency exit.

I understand and If I were given a preference for exit. It would be a dive, chest and pelvis to prop. But I don't think it would have made a difference on the first 2 screw ups. I simply went completely wacky. didn't read the rest of the replies yet but I felt I had to correct you. You did not screw them up. If you did you would be dead. You deployed your parachute and landed safe. That's a successful skydive bro.

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[JohnMitchell 14]

ufk22

Remember the relative wind and don't try to get belly to earth.

This right here. A good exit is all about proper presentation and a good arch. Always remember that when you first exit, you're not falling straight down, but ACROSS the ground. "Straight Down" is somewhere towards the forward horizon. Usually about a 45 degree angle to the horizon is good for most jump run speeds.