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AdamGardner

what is this canopy doing

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Nah, the brake lines are the right length but it looks like the suspension lines have stretched.;) Probably due to overloading:P Seriously though the canopy would fly better with lines in trim and land better with a full flare instead of a half flare and a lot of running.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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Might want to consider the video title which states "landing in turbulence" or something like that. I have had a few different canopies that sort of shake and accordion on the ends like that when air pressure changes are drastic. I was jumping in Hawaii at Pacific Skydiving Center and had a ride like that when the wind was coming from the mountain side of the dz. As soon as I dropped below the peak level the canopy exibited symptoms like this one.

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well their was barely any wind, so turbulence doesn't seem like it suits the situation.

and to the finish your flare- yeah I will work on that-
having not jumped in over a month or so- yeah guess I am rusty and forget little things like finish the flare :D

thanks for the input so far

if anyone disagrees with what has been said- please throw it out there-

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with this being a pretty damn near new canopy-

purchased in July with only around 5 jumps(if that) on it from the previous owner-everything still "crystal clean"
I have put only 56 jumps on it.

would line trim change that dramatically so soon?



yes, your brake lines will sometimes shorten quite a bit in the first 50-100 jumps.

it looks like your brake lines are too short, way too short.

also, about finishing your flare.... your not going to be able to finnish much more, due to the drastically short brake lines. you may stall the canopy.

you will most likely find loosening your brake lines will solve most of your problems...

have someone with experience jump the canopy and decide how much to loosen them, but my guess would be at least 2-3 inches.

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My brand new Cobalt came with the brake lines too short from the factory. I ended up replacing the brake lines with 5 inch longer lines from the cats eye to the toggle. Not all canopies are set up to run front risers.
"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

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with this being a pretty damn near new canopy-

purchased in July with only around 5 jumps(if that) on it from the previous owner-everything still "crystal clean"
I have put only 56 jumps on it.

would line trim change that dramatically so soon?





To check for brake lines that may be too short, open high. With brakes unstowed and in your hands, look up at the right back edge of your canopy as you pull down on the right front riser. If the back edge of your canopy pulls down any, while your pulling your front riser down, your brake line is too short. Lengthen them about 4" and try it again.


Ed
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

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The references to lengthening the brake lines are to change only the lower brakeline length. (the section between the toggle and the cat's eye). If you change the upper line length it may affect your openings. In any case see a rigger, doing it yourself is possible but bartacking the fingertraps by hand is a pain. Have your rigger leave lots of extra length past the toggles so you can get the adjustment right and have some left over to accomodate future shrinkage. My .02 anyway. I've had to deal with this problem on several canopies for various reasons, you'll be amazed at the improved performance you'll get.
Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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chris- Ah, yeah I haven't thought of that- maybe they were too short to begin with.

bodypilot- I am going to do that tomorrow. Well c what happens.

martini-right on- yeah I'll have a rigger do it if I need it done. I don't know enough yet of what I am doing, bartacking on the lines etc.- but I will watch him do it. I would like to get my riggers ticket, but that will take a lot of time. so I just keep learning as I get things fixed on my container and now canopy.

Anyone with a sabre2- can you stall your canopy without taking a wrap of your steering line? I know this kind of is biased due to people having weird lengths of their arms and bodies- but on average...

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change only the lower brakeline length. (the section between the toggle and the cat's eye).



Good point I forgot to make, Paul. Thanks ;)

This is why I never bar tack any brake lines. He should ask his rigger to finger trap and knot instead, that way he can always adjust easily.


Ed
www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

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Ed, like you I absolutely never bartack the toggle end of the brakeline, an overhand knot after fingertrappinng is secure but removable. OTOH bartacking the end that fingertraps at the cat's eye is a must. I know that's obvious to you but might not be to someone else reading this. I've seen that fingertrap pull out after it was improperly bartacked. Fortunately it came loose at brake release and not during landing.
Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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so I have adjusted the brake line-We measured it and on both sides they were not what the specs:
http://performancedesigns.com/docs/linetrims/SA_097-170P02LT.pdf
said they should be. One had about two and a half inches too short- an inch and more on the brake line to the toggle and an inch and more on the lower control line.
We ended up adding about three inches to the break line to toggle-there was extra line shoved up into the the line so no need to add, just needed to pull it out and retied it.

It now flies- a little better. (Unfortunately I forgot to get a copy of the video)There was not as much movement as the canopy was in the fronts. I watched while I was up high- the effect and the increased bowed out effect of the extra brake line even when I was in the fronts.

On my front riser into final and my landing- it was still slightly bucking. We also had some wind though- which I am sure comes into affect. We had about 10mph-and I made a slight crosswind landing as the winds shifted slightly during my final approach.

this is a sabre2 anyone have similar experiences with this type of canopy- is it known to buck on the fronts when doing carving turns?

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A Sabre2 at factory specs will buck when you pull on a front riser. Get with your rigger and the experienced canopy people at your DZ to go through a lengthening process. The trick is to find the proper length that leaves you with the least amount of tail distortion while leaving the proper amount of toggle stroke to give you a proper control range with the toggles. It is definitely a give and take situation. I don't recommend adding more then 1" of adjustment at a time. 1" can make a HUGE difference in how the canopy flies.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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and to the finish your flare- yeah I will work on that-
having not jumped in over a month or so- yeah guess I am rusty and forget little things like finish the flare



But you didn't forget to haul down on your front risers on final approach.

Maybe shuffle your priorities around a little when it comes to jumping and currency.

Also, maybe you shoud do a little research into canopy mechanics before inducing speed on your landings.

Proper adjustment of your brake lines is key to canopy performance. How do you expect to learn if your canopy isn't even set up properly?

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But you didn't forget to haul down on your front risers on final approach.


yeah, ok-- you are right-I am not going to try and justify it- please do not turn this into a flame thread.

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Proper adjustment of your brake lines is key to canopy performance. How do you expect to learn if your canopy isn't even set up properly?



Your absolutely right. Which is why-my canopy is not performing. Therefore, I am learning on all stages from my attitude about recurrency, to adjusting the brake lines- and different effects of where you add to the line- and how I am tweaking my canopy to get the performance desired.
I know you were not at my dz today- but we were not able to jump due to fog until later afternoon. I learned alot just listening to some of the people I look up to. Our rigger was working with me etc. anyways, I know I do not have alot of knowledge and experience but I enjoy learning, especially when it comes to the mechanics.

I want to know all the aspects when it comes down to it. Honestly, I would rather not have put this post up at all- if I KNEW what was going on. I figured this was a neat venue to throw this topic out there, which I am sure someone else has already. I have picked up some pointers, or shall I saw reinforcer's to what I had already established.

Thanks to all who have contributed

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Don't be upset with me. I didn't make the choices for you, I simply pointed out the choices you made yourself.

Should I have kept my comments to myself? Maybe, but seeing as they were is reference to things you didn't know, how am I to know what else you don't know? I couldn't possibly tell you everything you need to know, so suggesting that you take on further study was the best I could do.

There used to be common situation where everyone hung out at the DZ after hours, and stories would be swapped and questions would be answered. Many longer term jumpers on this board have lamented the passing of this trend, noting that information isn't making it as far as it used to. You shouldn't have to wait for a layer of fog to roll in a facilitate your learning.

Beyond that, it looks like you've been jumping for two years. Well, the very resource you're using in hindsight to gather information, DZ.com, has been around for much longer than that. All the posts, and all the posters were here freely exchanging info all along.

Be upset with yourself, and take my suggestion to re-suffle your priorities to educate yourself first, and endanger yourself second.

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...Be upset with yourself, and take my suggestion to re-suffle your priorities to educate yourself first, and endanger yourself second.



Worth repeating over and over again...for EVERYBODY!
The OP scared me.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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