Vision by Aerodyne

[bigway 4]

Just looking to hear a bit of feedback by anyone who owns or has experience on the Vision as well as experience to compare to similar canopies from PD and Icarus etc.

Sure, I know what Aerodyne tell me about their canopies and i know what I think of the canopy from jumping it but i would like to hear some detailed feedback from happy as well as unhappy owners of the Vision or just people who have test jumped it.

Thanks guys.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[fallingfaster 0]

I came to my current canopy, a Vision 132, from a Safire. I think everyone tends to speak highly of a canopy they own. But I really love the vision. I demoed the Stilletto for 10 jumps, and I think the vision is more responsive than the Stilletto without the 'spinetto' bad habits. I've put maybe 200 jumps on my Vision, and had line twists a grand total of twice. That being said, I think it's opened on heading that number of times as well. . . Usually it's a 90, but I've had it pull a 270 or 360 on a couple of openings.

The openings are almost always soft, very rarely are they more brisk, but I've never had a slammer with the canopy. I like the Aerodyne riser and toggle setup, esp. with the tru lock style toggle security.

At my loading (1.3 to 1.4 depending on weight I'm wearing) the front, rear and toggle pressures are fairly light. So light in fact, that the canopy is easy to hold in a pretty steep dive with front risers and some harness input.

Toggles stalls on the canopy are a wild ride, usually resulting in line twists and other fun. I've had it throw me against the chest strap so hard that it's knocked the wind out of me. But rear riser stalls are nice and gentle, canopy collapses and just floats you down. (Though let up on one side while doing this, and the resulting 'Helicopter stall' is ever so much fun!)

The canopy isn't very ground hungry, but can be forced into a steep glide with aggressive riser input. The recovery arc is slightly longer than a Stilletto, but still fairly short in comparison to the X-Fire or Katana.

I've only landed the canopy straight in with no riser input a couple of times, but when I did, the flare power seems a little lacking. With a 90° front riser turn, the canopy lands very nicely. The canopy lands great on rear risers only, and even with 90° turns it is possible to transition from rears to toggles in the flare.

All and all I really like the Vision, it is aggressive but forgiving enough to teach basic canopy flight and swoop skills. The Vision is part of the reason I've come to love the canopy ride more than the freefall. Good luck with your decision!

[bigway 4]

Thanks mate, thats the sort of stuff i want to read as a reply.

I am not looking to buy one, I sell aerodyne gear and am just trying to learn about others experiences as well as my limited experience on one.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[parachutist 1]

I loaded my Vision 117 at 2.0 all season doing about 300 jumps, most with camera. I've enjoyed it a great deal. Here's what I've noticed about the canopy:

- easy to fly it through the openings to maintain desired heading. If it starts going left, a little body shift to the right brings it back quickly & vice versa. My only wing suit jump was under this canopy, & it opened on heading for that too.
- middle-speed opening. Not snappy & not really slow opening. That's been good for camera work because no neck breaker openings. And if it's a long spot, I still have altitude to work with.
- middle glide loaded at 2.0. I can squeeze some extra distance out of it with rear risers, but it's not as efficient as a velo, and gets a little less glide than I'd expect from a Stiletto 120. But I have a lot more fun landing it than a stiletto
- light front riser pressure
- middle recovery arc. Much longer than a Stiletto, shorter than a Katana. You do need to give it a little input to bring it out of the dive while you still have speed.
- lots of rear riser play available. Typically I can pull about 6-8" of rear risers before I get to stall range. The one thing I haven't figured out with this canopy is how to land it efficiently on rear risers. It feels like I cause more drag with the amount of rear risers I'm pulling than if I'd just used brakes... seems like brakes provide longer swoops. That could just be my approach though.
- New lines for this canopy are HMA (original line set was Spectra & that went out of trim over about 300 jumps). I haven't instalkled the new line set yet. It's not what I expected... it's large diameter HMA that's cascaded & the only HMA line sets I've seen thus far were thin & not cascaded. I'm not sure what weight the line is, but it's just a little smaller than 750lb Vectran & looks much like Vectran. I'm looking forward to trying out these new lines after they're installed. They shouldn't go out of trim as the Spectra did.

The predictable openings have been fabulous. I sold my X-braced canopy because I didn't want to deal with finicky oenings while flying camera. I wanted the ability to do big-way RW without worrying about other jumpers in the vicinity during deployment, or low openings putting me too low. And on top of all that, it's fun to land. This canopy's been perfect for my needs all year.

[matt3sa 0]

I've jumped PD's Stiletto 170, 150, 135.
I've jumped Atair's Cobalt 135
I've jumped the Icarus Crossfire 1 139.
I've jumped the Aerodyne Vision 150

On a 135 SQ ft canopy I usually load it between ranges of 1.6-1.7.

These are some overall observations from my experiences.

Openings: (Best at top)
1. Crossfire 1 - perfect soft openings on all jumps
2. Stiletto - Not bad. Soft openings, some off heading
3. Cobalt- Not bad, some off heading openings
4. Vision - Not bad. Frequent off heading and some harder openings


Overall turn rate (fastest listed at the top)
1. Cobalt
2. Stiletto
3. Vision
4. Crossfire 1

Dives (Longest at top)
1. Cobalt Very Very light riser pressure compared to others mentioned here
2. Vision
3. Crossfire 1 (service bulletin canopy)
4. Stiletto (ridiculously high riser pressure)

Landing Performance

Cobalt: Tons and tons of flare with excellent glide ability. Fast when loaded above 1.6. Very responsive. Great for high performance or straight in soft landings.
Fun for hook turns and front riser landings. Easy to surf on rear risers when landing due to light pressure. Very strong tension and response from toggles... lot's of lift.

Stiletto: Tough to make dive for landing. Fun for hook turns. High riser pressure. Great flare that provides half way decent distance after a correctly timed recovery arc.

Crossfire 1: Tough to keep in a dive due to moderatley high riser pressure. This canopy was recalled, so I don't know how much that effected it's performance. Everyone has their own opinion. Good speed on landing. Powerful flare, but it comes very deep and it's difficult to us that small sweet spot for a lot of distance (if you've jumped other canopies by Atair or PD).

Vision: Carries good speed after inducing speed prior to final. Not sure if Aerodyne screwed something up on canopy they sent me, but the Vision had absolutely no flare at all. No sweet spot. It felt more like an f-111 canopy flare with slightly more pressure. No two stage flare on that one at all. Just as I felt like I was getting some distance it just dropped out without producing any shut down power.

These are just my experiences. Consider my wing loads before you make a decision. You may have a completely different experience at different loads with your flying style. I'm aggressive and I like to try to swoop on landings. I love toggle hooks and riser dives. Hope this helps. I would have liked the Vision much more if it had more likeable landing characteristics. It's smooth in the air. Good luck.

[bigway 4]

Excellent posts guys. Keep them coming.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[damion75 0]

Canopy History:

Spectre 170
Vision 150
Sabre2 150
Vision 132
Katana 120

Also some jumps on:
Triathlon 175 & 160
Sabre2 170
Springo 160
Stiletto 150
Mamba 132
Mamba 117

My main canopy was a Vision from 300 jumps to 900 jumps (split between the 150 and the 132) and I serisouly considered staying with that to get the 117, but went with a Katana 120 for the added dive. I actually wanted the Mamba 117 but didn't want to wait for one to be built. Love the Aerodyne canopies and also the customer service (cheers Arnold!)

The Vision 132 was the canopy that I started work on learning about canopy piloting with, and I reckon it was about perfect for the purpose. Lots of range on rears and toggles to get back from the long spots, Medium dive (between Stilletto and Katana) and I did not have any of the shutting down problems of one of the previous posters.

There was little if any oversteer and one of the things I liked most about the canopy was it's predictability, it did exactly what I asked of it. Great canopy and I am pleased that Aerodyne are finally starting to make a fuss of it.

Hope that helps.

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[billvon 2,384]

I put a bunch of jumps on an earlier Vision and didn't like it one bit. Narrow flare range, very finicky on opening and while flying in brakes, and unpredictable openings. I understand they've gotten better. But if you're buying used, try to avoid the earlier Visions.

[bigway 4]

Can you explain what you mean by Finicky?

Also, have you done even a single jumps on the newer ones?

Am only really interested in Brand new visions so the current version.


The things is, I have alot of people/customers asking about the vision. I only have a couple of jumps on it, So i am listening to other peoples opinions on the canopy for education so to speak. I am not going to make my own opinion from eveything people say here as that would be iggnorant, Just trying to find out more from experiences.

What canopy would best be compared in relation next to the vision?

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[billvon 2,384]

>Can you explain what you mean by Finicky?

Wanted to spin up. You had to ride it through opening carefully, and then monitor it after opening until you had released the brakes. If you didn't do anything - just sat perfectly still - it would start turning towards one side and keep accelerating until the brakes are released. Body steering was needed to keep it flying straight. Since I often have things to do after opening (stowing slider, looking for students etc) such canopies are not ideal for me.

>Also, have you done even a single jumps on the newer ones?

I put 2 jumps on a newer Vision 132, but that was during a bigway event when I could not pay much attention to it, so I can't comment on it too much. It seemed a bit better, but I'd hesitate to base any judgments on that.

[bigway 4]

Thanks mate. All experiences are greatly received and noted.

What gets me is why you never really hear of this canopy.
The Pilot and Smart reserve are out there in force and have made a huge impact in the sport.... To be honest the pilot is probably one of the most produced canopies after the Sabre 2 (i am guessing ).
I have been VERY busy with emails for gear over the past 12 months but have only ever had 2-3 people enquiring about the Vision. I am curious as to why there is not so much support for it, Has the vision got a bad rep from the original vision maybe? or is it just a canopy that has not had the marketing put into it?

Aerodyne have the greatest distributor prices I have come across, so it really stumps me as to why you never hear about people talking about 'their' vision canopy.

The original Sabre (i know, different class of canopies) had issues with openings and is well known for it and this results in not many people left jumping the Sabre 1,
Your experiences on the original Vision, Were they a general opinion shared by others?



Anyway, thanks for replying in detail.


Can you tell me for that class, what you personally would prefer OVER the Vision?

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
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[billvon 2,384]

>I am curious as to why there is not so much support for it . . .

I think because it got a bit of a bad rap to start with. Once they had it fixed, their "main pushes" were the Pilot (great starter canopy) and the Mamba (their high performance canopy.) That's my guess at least.

It's not just the Vision. The Silhouette is a great canopy that flies "small" so someone used to a Sabre 150 can go to a Silhouette 150 and get a noticeable increase in performance. It's also a hybrid so it's easy to pack. Yet it's not well known here, I think because it doesn't have as clear a market as, say, the Velocity does. It is, for some reason, better known in Europe.

>so it really stumps me as to why you never hear about people talking
>about 'their' vision canopy.

I heard a bit about them. I think both Dominic (deguzman) and JP Funari (Diablopilot) jumped them at one point.

[iopenhi 0]

Quote

>Can you explain what you mean by Finicky?

billvon wrote:Wanted to spin up. You had to ride it through opening carefully, and then monitor it after opening until you had released the brakes. If you didn't do anything - just sat perfectly still - it would start turning towards one side and keep accelerating until the brakes are released. Body steering was needed to keep it flying straight. Since I often have things to do after opening (stowing slider, looking for students etc) such canopies are not ideal for me.



I have 100+ jumps on my Vision 132 loaded at 1.3ish My experience is just as billvon stated. I jump primarily at a Cessna DZ so the issue of off heading openings or the canopy trying to spin up is perhaps not as critical as if I were in the air with 10 other jumpers or 50 other jumpers, but I don't take a lot of stock in the ""big sky" concept. Occasionally I make the trek to Z'Hills or Lake Wales and make a couple boogies a year, and the more I jump, especially on bigger loads, the less I like to have that nagging thought in the back of my mind of "well am I going to turn 180 on opening and fly into someone, or will it be 360 this time? I'm not a swooper nor do I plan to be. I'm a conservative canopy pilot and I've had a number of folks joke with me and tell me that I'm so predictable that the wind socks check my pattern so they know which way to fly. I'm also 47 years young and have some disk issues throughout my spinal column. I love the Vision's soft openings but have not been able to correct whatever I'm doing (or the canopy is doing) on opening. It seems odd to me, but regardless of how I treat the nose while packing, it doesn't seem to significantly change the openings. I've had many jumps with video buddies arranged to film my openings and have many of them on tape from my camera's perspective.

I have found that on no wind days I have trouble reaching that "finish" point in the flare and need to run it out. Again- I've watched enough video to rule out incomplete toggle stroke

I bought the canopy from one of the jumpers at our dz with about 120 jumps on it and it had been bought new by the owner before that. I don't have the canopy in front of me at the moment; perhaps when I get home this evening I'll look at the DOM and edit to post it. I wasn't aware that the earlier Visions had "issues".

The plan is to stay with Aerodyne products- I think I have a Pilot 150 demo on the way. I have jumped that canopy before and enjoyed the heck out of it, but wanted to jump it a few more times before pulling the trigger on a brand new one.

I've really enjoyed reviewing this post and would certainly be open to suggestions from those of you withe more experience under the Vision.

Clark

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken manure.

• Quote

[Joellercoaster 6]

Quote

>I am curious as to why there is not so much support for it . . .

I think because it got a bit of a bad rap to start with. Once they had it fixed, their "main pushes" were the Pilot (great starter canopy) and the Mamba (their high performance canopy.) That's my guess at least.

I have a theory too, but I don't know much about the canopy biz... I've had mine since October and have just posted the following review in the gear section:

~~~~ wavy lines ~~~~

I bought my Vision 150 at 400 jumps, having ordered a Pilot 150 with a new rig then decided I wanted something a bit sportier in the long UPT wait period. My feelings about the canopy are positive, but kind of mixed - the executive summary is that I'm going to keep it and learn it well, but have a feeling that there might be something better out there in the same sort of class.

Before this I've jumped mostly Pilots and Sabre2s, sizes 210-150, and preferred the Pilots in general. I have the HMA lines, not because I am a swoop god, but because I ordered them by accident. So far, they seem pretty good and I like the way they pack, though we'll see how they wear eh?

The good: Openings are positive and regular. Noticeably quicker than the Pilot, which I have to say I like, and generally on-heading, seems fairly sensitive to body position during the snivel (you can steer it if you're watching). Mine is prone to occasional end-cell closure, which is annoying but not really a big deal. It spun up on me and put me on my back on the second jump, but it hasn't done it again now that I leave a good 2' of line between the last stow and the risers.

It's fun to fly - initially about as responsive to toggle input as the Pilots I've jumped, but requires me to think a little more about oversteer as it will happily heel over and spiral if I (for example) yank on a rear riser too hard, without counter-input. Good exercise for the future, needing to think another step ahead. It certainly dives harder and longer than the Pilot, and it's easy to build up a lot more speed and keep it. Front riser pressure I'd put at 'medium'; it doesn't take a lot of effort to start something but it can be a strain to hold onto - the difference being, you're getting more for your input even though it feels like you're not pulling much further.

It notices when you shift your weight in the harness. Leaning into turns makes a world of difference.

The bad: As other people have said, the Vision can run out of flare just when you want to shut it down. I've noticed mine only does this on straight-in landings; the flare is fine on front-riser approaches. I asked another Vision owner about it, and he said he had the same thing until he downsized... an idea emerges.

Looking at the Aerodyne website, they recommend Visions be loaded at 1.6 to 1.8. And the plot thickens further. 1.6 is a hefty loading even in the accelerated Mad Skillz world we live in now - the Vision is at the lower-performance end of the elliptical spectrum, viewed by buyers as maybe a decent 'first' elliptical for people who don't want the really long recovery arc of a Crossfire or a Katana, and are a bit suspicious of the Stiletto's opening reputation. But 1.6 was a step too far for me, and it seems I'm underloading mine because I feel like I'm right on the bottom edge of the useful performance envelope, flare-wise. Which makes me wonder, exactly who is this canopy aimed at? 0.2 pounds per square foot is not a huge window of wingloading range.

On double fronts or carving approaches though, it's a happy bunny. So I just land it like that mostly, and flare hard and late when I have to land straight in.

Overall, it's a good canopy but I don't honestly know who to recommend it to. I'll demo a 132 in a few hundred jumps and see if the shutdown does indeed improve with higher load, because other than that I really like it. Failing that, I dunno... Nitro? Crossfire2 in the same size?

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[flipper 0]

Quote

I put a bunch of jumps on an earlier Vision and didn't like it one bit. Narrow flare range, very finicky on opening and while flying in brakes, and unpredictable openings. I understand they've gotten better. But if you're buying used, try to avoid the earlier Visions.

Totally agree ... early versions were not the best .. also jumped some sub 100 proto versions that they had ... they were worse : (