Wingsuit Pull vs. Standard Pull

[SPAWNmaster 0]

Hi there,

Just contemplating recently as I've started to fly...why is the wingsuit type of pull not taught to skydiving students?

It seems to me that it's symmetrical and more intuitive than a standard pull (bringing one arm over your head often caused me to spin a bit at pull time earlier in my career).

Another positive side is that if everyone pulled like this there would be more distance when tracking from a formation.

I don't claim to be any more knowledgable than the next guy nor am I an instructor- just wondering about this.

Any ideas why this isn't being adopted?

[pilotdave 0]

Tends to make you pitch forward. A student could flip right over, but for the most part it is more likely to cause harder openings. See attached pic of someone doing it. You can see how head-low it put her.

Since we would still slow down and wave off after tracking, this would not help increase separation.

Dave

[dragon2 2]

Probably because pulling with your head low is going to hurt you sooner rather than later.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[dragon2 2]

Beat me to it

Not just regular skydivers can flip over, wingsuiters can also manage that, esp newbies or when you cutaway your armwings in freefall for some reason. I've been told my previous safire 135 flew just fine with a flipthrough

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

Hi there,

Just contemplating recently as I've started to fly...why is the wingsuit type of pull not taught to skydiving students?

It seems to me that it's symmetrical and more intuitive than a standard pull (bringing one arm over your head often caused me to spin a bit at pull time earlier in my career).

Another positive side is that if everyone pulled like this there would be more distance when tracking from a formation.

I don't claim to be any more knowledgable than the next guy nor am I an instructor- just wondering about this.

Any ideas why this isn't being adopted?

Why do you think that the second best way is taught for students?

A class requirement: pull stable.

You were taught how to pull stable.

[billvon 2,918]

>Another positive side is that if everyone pulled like this there would be more
>distance when tracking from a formation.

You actually get _less_ distance in a worst case tracking scenario.

When you have to track to X feet and you need every yard of clearance, you can combine the stop/check/waveoff/pull by getting both hands far out in front, waving off while looking around, then pulling with one hand still far out in front. You're slowing down the whole time.

[SPAWNmaster 0]

thanks for the input guys!

[Chubba 0]

Quote

wingsuiters can also manage that

Indeed, friend doing his ~10th wingsuit jump (Phantom 2) on the weekend ended up practically headdown on deployment.

On the video the canopy didn't even snivel, just BOOM.

[sdctlc 0]

Quote

Quote

wingsuiters can also manage that

Indeed, friend doing his ~10th wingsuit jump (Phantom 2) on the weekend ended up practically headdown on deployment.

On the video the canopy didn't even snivel, just BOOM.

For the OP, it was noted you will likely go head low if you don't counter balance with the left arm over your head. Working towards WS flying is great to do but the WS pull is more of a necessity given lack of arm movement over the head and the extra fabric the wings provide.

For the poster I am quoting, your friend is most likely keeping his leg wing open and that is creating the head down. I teach FFC students to collapse the leg wing and to bend at the knee. This is initially taught on the ground by having the First Flight student standing up in a full flight position, simulating the 3 leg kicks for wave off followed by a small squat with the legs together then doing the symmetrical arm motion for pull. The squat is not a deep one but maybe a quarter or 1/3 of the way so you have a slight bend at the hips and one at the knees. Even if the leg with is partially inflated, the bends take some of the leg wing out and will prevent the head low. It also takes some of the forward drive the leg is producing out of the equation. this is for skydiving not hopping off of rocks where the general feeling seems to be that you should keep the leg open through deployment, I have been told. But I digress

If all is done mostly as taught, you will end up with a with a head high position looking at the horizon giving the best opportunity to fly through the deployment with your shoulders thus getting an improved chance at a cleaner deployment. The key I feel is the Knee bend which pitches the head up. This method is the one I use for my WS jumps and is also good if you have a rig with no wingsuit modifications (other then hopefully an extended bridle) as the pitch up helps give a more vertical relative to the container deployment sequence.

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[pms07 3]

Quote

Hi there,

Just contemplating recently as I've started to fly...why is the wingsuit type of pull not taught to skydiving students?

It seems to me that it's symmetrical and more intuitive than a standard pull (bringing one arm over your head often caused me to spin a bit at pull time earlier in my career).

Another positive side is that if everyone pulled like this there would be more distance when tracking from a formation.

I don't claim to be any more knowledgable than the next guy nor am I an instructor- just wondering about this.

Any ideas why this isn't being adopted?

Yeah, I think if you go try the wingsuit pull you will find it is not more intuitive. It is, in fact, more difficult for many very experienced jumpers. At least that's what I've seen on a number of people training to start on a wingsuit. For sure less stability in the pitch axis and, as others have observed, easy to get head low. A head low body position also seems very uncomfortable for many on student status and easily leads to major instabillity.