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hackish

What isthe deal with Canadian gear and repacks in the USA?

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So I've made it down to DeLand to jump my ass off. I brought some gear with me. It's maintained by a Canadian rigger and is about 160 days into our 180 day repack cycle. The gear is legal to jump in Canada.

Nobody seems to know if I need to have it repacked to conform to the 120 day repack cycle here or if I will be able to jump it as it is. The gear is a PD reserve and a Vector 3 with a PD main. One of the small components on the rig may not be TSO'd if that makes any difference.

-Michael

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You can jump it (for the next 20 days).

SEC. 105.49 FOREIGN
PARACHUTISTS AND EQUIPMENT
(a) No person may conduct a parachute operation, and no
pilot in command of an aircraft may allow a parachute
operation to be conducted from that aircraft with an
unapproved foreign parachute system unless—
(1) The parachute system is worn by a foreign para-
chutist who is the owner of that system.
(2) The parachute system is of a single-harness dual
parachute type.
(3) The parachute system meets the civil aviation
authority requirements of the foreign parachutist’s
country.
(4) All foreign non-approved parachutes deployed
by a foreign parachutist during a parachute opera-
tion conducted under this section shall be packed
as follows—
(i) The main parachute must be packed by the for-
eign parachutist making the next parachute
jump with that parachute, a certificated para-
chute rigger, or any other person acceptable to
the Administrator.
(ii) The reserve parachute must be packed in accor-
dance with the foreign parachutist’s civil aviation
authority requirements, by a certificated para-
chute rigger, or any other person acceptable to
the Administrator.

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I can only offer my opinion; you must obey the USA rules because at least one of your components are TSO'd. [:/]



If it's an "unapproved parachute system", then the FAR is pretty clear that the Canadian rules apply, and as he says, the rig is legal to jump in Canada. If it's not "unapproved", then what's the problem?

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If it's an "unapproved parachute system", then the FAR is pretty clear that the Canadian rules apply,



He has a Vector, and PD canopies. Those are approved (TSO'd) components, so US rules apply. He needs a repack to jump that system.

Ted
Like a giddy school girl.

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Hey,

Just some input. I jumped my Javelin Odyssey, Spectre 135 and PD 143 at a major US DZ last year, and I was well over the 120 days, but under 180. They said as long as I'm legal in my country.

I'm finding out this year that I am not going to be able to jump at another major DZ. Sucks, but I'm getting it repacked tomorrow for my trip.

I guess it ultimately ends up in the DZ's hands.
"When once you have tasted flight..."

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If the rig does contain components that are not TSO'd then I assume it does fall into that category. I think the passage ficus posted explains it well but are there any others people know of that would override that?

It would suck if I had to get a repack because the reserve has to be unpacked at the end of the week to remove the AAD :(

-Michael

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It's approved equipment, so it must meet FAA packing requirements. Essentially, the regulations say that if the FAA approves all the components, then the FAA knows what's best and you must follow US regulations. If one of the components (reserve or container) isn't approved, then FAA doesn't know enough about your equipment to make a judgment, and the home country rules apply. That's the law. Some drop zones may not enforce it to the letter. For more detail see an article I wrote for Dropzone.com in 2003 at http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=96
Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

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A part of the reserve system is not TSO'd. Even though it is well researched and well tested it does not apply to the TSO and is part of the certificated parachute. I suspect technically an FAA rigger would not legally be allowed to certify the reserve. Don't want to back myself into a corner too much here. The reserve is within the 180 day repack rules we use in Canada and I believe it is safe - or I would not be jumping it.

-Michael

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Doesn't really matter what your interpretation is or the interpretation of anyone on DZ.com. It matters how the person signing off your gear at Deland interprets it.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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This came up a while back in south Texas. The guys at the San Antonio FSDO were aware of and very clear about this situation. If your permanent residence is outside the US then the rules of that country apply to only the OWNER of the gear. Any one else jumping the gear goes by the FAR's including all applicable TSO's. It doesn't matter where the gear is made. The guys name at the SA FSDO was Tarwater. He may still be around so maybe you can call him and ask. Or, call your own FSDO. It doesn't matter what the DZ's opinion is or the USPA's for that matter. Or anybody else who may have written an article. It's up to the person who's going to issue the citation to the pilot if the FAA gets involved. I know. I'm a pilot and I've been there.

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A part of the reserve system is not TSO'd. Even though it is well researched and well tested it does not apply to the TSO and is part of the certificated parachute. I suspect technically an FAA rigger would not legally be allowed to certify the reserve. Don't want to back myself into a corner too much here.



If part of the reserve system is not TSO'd, then the whole reserve system is not TSO'd. That makes the system unapproved for use by US citizens or permanent residents, but the FAA is just fine with visitors using their own unapproved equipment.

If you needed, an FAA rigger could pack it for you to jump. That's in FAR 105.49(a)(4)(ii): "The reserve parachute must be packed in accordance with the foreign parachutist's civil aviation authority requirements, by a certificated parachute rigger [my emphasis], or any other person acceptable to the [FAA] Administrator."

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The reserve is within the 180 day repack rules we use in Canada and I believe it is safe [even though part of the reserve system is not TSO'd] - or I would not be jumping it.



That whole test jumping thing. Kinda fun, really. Never a dull moment!;)

Mark

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As a Canadian who has jumped at a number of US DZ's since the Canadian repack cycle was increased to 180 days, I have chatted with a number of riggers (US and Canadian) on the topic. Tom B's article covers the topic well in that since your parachute components are US Made and TSO'd they fall under the US rules and the 120-day cycle. A minor component that is not TSO'd (whatever you mean by that) does not grant an extra 60 days on the repack cycle and may open more questions than you expect.

Now there are many Canadian's who will tell you of events and places where the the 180-day repack cycle is allowed for Canadians, whatever they jump. Normally this is where either the person is well known to the Drop Zone or some other factor in play. This is not a right under the FAA rules. I haven't been to Deland in years so I dont know their policy. I suggest you call or e-mail them in advance so you dont have a suprise start to your vacation by having to get a repack (and boogie repacks can take a while and can be expensive).
Also if your concern is that your reserve needs to be repacked after 'cause your cypress is due, talk to your rigger. They dont have to do a complete Inspection-and-Repack just to pull the Cypress. You are probably better off to get the repack taken care of before you head to Deland by your own rigger.
Regardless, have fun in Deland, it is a great place for jumping.

Major Dad
CSPA D-579

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If part of the reserve system is not TSO'd, then the whole reserve system is not TSO'd.



that is the part that is not entirely clear. 'part' of the system may not invalidate or validate anything. If an accident happens, the FAA inspectors may be out, and they are judge, jury and executioner, all wrapped into one.

Since they do not care much about you, they go after the pilot when you violate an FAR, and even if you are right, it could cost the pilot a lot of time and money defending himself or herself against said allegations of wrongdoing.

So here's the simple rule, - when in Rome, do as the Romans. If you have any US Made container or reserve, then repack it in the US to US specs and there is no issue.

Hopefully in March of 2008, the FAA will change this rule and all this will be moot.

But it is not up to the DZ to decide at this point - we care because in the USA, it is FEDERAL law, not like Canada, where it is just a CSPA rule, which has no law-making abilities.

TK

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As luck would have it the DZO reviewed the situation scratched his head and referred me to a rigger across the street. The guy considered the situation and said that because the equipment was (mostly) TSO'd it would have to follow the 120 day repack cycle. So $45 and a couple of hours later I was repacked. The repack was actually far more comfortable and much more compact so I've really got no complaints. I guess 12,000 reserve packs of practise will do that!

In any event I've had great fun so far jumping from a pac and a caravan - all new experiences for me. Also found this sabre2 170 flies great. I absolutely love it. It's responsive enough that I won't need to think about downsizing for years. I think it flare about 10 times better than the sabre210 I've been flying.

-Michael

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It would suck if I had to get a repack because the reserve has to be unpacked at the end of the week to remove the AAD :(

-Michael



Why?

Get out your pencil.
Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

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That whole FAA "foreign gear waiver" was designed to encourage Europeans to jump at Florida DZs, back before little TSOed gear was manufactured outside the USA.
The South Africans were one of the first foreign countries to administer TSO standards (photo-copies of FAA standards) followed by New Zealand, Canada, etc. Since the European Common Market adopted Joint Technical Standard Orders (circa 2000) the whole issue of non-TSOed gear is slowly fading.

For example, out of three Canadian manufacturers, only one holds a (Transport Canada photo-copied FAA standards) TSO, and one of the non-TSOed manufacturers is close to retirement.

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Sure you can quote me on it. I did the canopy coaching course - Scott Miller's course but it was personalized for me as I did it one on one. We covered a lot of material I already knew and had done but it was great to get someone to video and critique all of my jumps. Made a lot of tiny changes that ultimately made a big difference on the approach and landing. I was afraid that I wouldn't learn a lot and although I may not have learned many more technical details I definitely found better ways to actually "use" them. Also got a few suggestions from some of the PD guys who were out doing test jumps. Funny how a tiny detail like shifting my upper body toward one riser helped my harness turns immensely.

-Michael

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