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i_like_to_fly

saftey seal jams reserve (non deployment)

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I don't know if this is a troll or not, but it seems bogus.

I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but why was this guy popping his reserve in the first place? He makes it sound like, Hey - I'm inexperienced and in my living room. I think I'll pop the reserve.

I can't comment on why this guy posted, but if it smells like shit, and it looks like shit, I say it's shit.

Nova

*edited for spelling
"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

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why was this guy popping his reserve in the first place? He makes it sound like, Hey - I'm inexperienced and in my living room. I think I'll pop the reserve.



That's exactly it, and not that unusual. Either for the sake of just practicing, and pulling a live handle, or to combat the old wives tale that if you don't pull your handle, the rigger can just pencil whip your reserve, it's not that uncommon for jumpers to dump their reserve when they need a repack.


Add this to an overly-excited newbie, and they certainly would just pull their handles in their living room.

Along those lines, a note to others, don't dump your reserve in your living room. If you insisnt on pulling your handles, do it when you drop the rig off and with a rigger present.

If there are any problems with the pull, having a rigger nearby to diagnose the problem is key to preventing it happen to others (such as this case).

Beyond that, the safest way for you to transport your reserve and reserve compnents is with them securely in your rig. Having the PC, bridle, and reserve hanging out of your rig while you transport it to your rigger is just asking for trouble. Keep it together until you get where you're going, then dump it, then hand it to your rigger to take care of.

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I have seen this on a Vector 2 and I was there when customer pulled it. The previous rigger insert the red cotton thread thrue the Cypres loop and it was enough to hold the chute because the lead seal went into the grommet. I could be the same thing...

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I don't know if this is a troll or not, but it seems bogus.

I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but why was this guy popping his reserve in the first place? He makes it sound like, Hey - I'm inexperienced and in my living room. I think I'll pop the reserve.

I can't comment on why this guy posted, but if it smells like shit, and it looks like shit, I say it's shit.

Nova



seriously? I'm sure the OP made everything up, right?

He had a serious problem that others have seen happen, so please stop telling this guy it is "BS" and that "its Shit".

Only on DZ.com I guess.
Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

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I just put that post on EQUIPMENT AND RIGGING FORUM but I thought it would be appropiate to put it here too.

<<To avoid that problem, the rigger should place the seal in the middle of the red safety braid length and have this red braid relatively thight or with at about 1/4" play>>>.
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but why was this guy popping his reserve in the first place? He makes it sound like, Hey - I'm inexperienced and in my living room. I think I'll pop the reserve.



He has every right to pop his reserve, after all it is his equipment.

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He has every right to pop his reserve, after all it is his equipment.



Of course he does. That doesn't make it a good idea. ;)

It is a good idea to keep the reserve packed until you're with your rigger. B|
"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

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>It is a good idea to keep the reserve packed until you're with your rigger.

Why? I encourage people to open their reserves and poke around to see how their gear is put together. Do it at your rigger's if you like, or do it at the DZ with someone more experienced, or even do it at home. Cover any velcro you expose and stuff it all in a bag afterwards to protect it. It's just a canopy; there's no magic to it, no secret sauce that will leak out.

Too many people don't see their reserve, ever - or worse yet, see it for the first time when they have to use it. If, some day, they look up and see eight risers and two canopies, it would be good to know what their reserve risers/toggles/slider/canopy looks like.

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Why?

Not because of magic mystery sauce inside the reserve container. Skydivers aren't a superior group that have better than average common sense or supernatural intellect. Sometimes my observations lead me to believe contrariwise. Nonetheless, I don't think the reserve system is a big mystery to skydivers in terms of construction and use. We know parachutes want to open and if properly packed it's pretty hard to pack one that won't open.

The reserve is different. It has to open; we rely on that. And it has to open fast. My experience is the reserve is a mystery in terms of maintenance and packing for the no-fail factor. That's the magic: Rigger Skill.

The reserve system, while robust, should be kept clean, undamaged and protected from the environment. That environment includes food, drink, pets, dirt, solvents, &c., &c.

I also encourage people to open their reserves and get familiar with it - with their rigger, who can explain how its construction differs from mains, how it fits together, functions and why it should be kept protected from the environment. But IMO it really isn't necessary for a jumper to see their reserve prior to its activation. Is seeing it going to create that magic sauce you mentioned? Is seeing it going to make them a better 7-cell F-111 pilot?

Reservations/concerns about the reserve are dispelled by learning and instruction, not by playing around with a parachute system. There is good reasoning behind the instruction & training of and licensing of riggers. There are good reasons for one's rigger to observe the pulling/opening the reserve container. Let your rigger play with the reserve and he/she will certainly be glad to explain it all. You have another parachute to play with. ;)

This got longer than I expected, but it's my $0.02.

Nova

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

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> Skydivers aren't a superior group that have better than average common
>sense or supernatural intellect.

Agreed. We are pretty much like everyone else, except that we're willing to jump out of airplanes.

>The reserve is different. It has to open; we rely on that. And it has to open fast.
>My experience is the reserve is a mystery in terms of maintenance and packing
>for the no-fail factor.

Right - and that's a problem. It shouldn't be a mystery. You should understand that thing that you rely on to save your life.

>The reserve system, while robust, should be kept clean, undamaged and
>protected from the environment. That environment includes food, drink, pets,
>dirt, solvents, &c., &c.

Agreed.

>But IMO it really isn't necessary for a jumper to see their reserve prior to its
>activation. Is seeing it going to create that magic sauce you mentioned? Is
>seeing it going to make them a better 7-cell F-111 pilot?

Yes! If, as I mentioned, they someday see a two-out, and one canopy has a serious problem with a brake line snag - their life may depend on knowing that their reserve brake lines go to red toggles, not yellow toggles. If they have an orange main, again, it may be critical for them to know that they have an orange reserve - and that unexplained snarl of fabric above them is not just a malfunctioning part of their main.

>Reservations/concerns about the reserve are dispelled by learning and
>instruction, not by playing around with a parachute system.

I'd argue that both are critical. You can learn a lot about a reserve by "playing" with it just as you learn a lot about a main by packing it. (Which is one reason we require students to learn to pack, even if they are 100% positive they will pay a packer for the rest of their skydiving careers.)

And, as you mentioned, if the idea makes you nervous, you can "play" with it under the watchful eye of your rigger.

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Thank you for the precision. I understand that the method described on your PDF document is ONE of the acceptable methods. I am maybe a bit nit picking but the method described in that document doesn't seem to be a guarantee the safety braid to be broken when you pull the rip cord.
Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

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Well, as far as the BPA is concerned, this is the ONLY acceptable method.
The whole idea of this method is that the cotton thread is wrapped around the ripcord pin above and below the closing loop, but doesn't pass through the closing loop it's self.
When the reserve is deployed, the cotton loop should still be intact.

I theory, I guess it would be possible to open the reserve, tamper with it, then re-close the reserve by passing the pin back through the unbroken loop of the cotton thread. In practice, that's not possible because of the surgeons' knot and the fact that the lead seal is tacked to the container so you don't have enough slack to work with.

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It's just a canopy; there's no magic to it, no secret sauce that will leak out.



I still remember the Instructor on my FJC laying a canopy out in the class room and while he was explaining the names of the parts he took off his shoes and proceeded to walk all over the canopy saying "It's not a Sacred Cow, don't be afraid of it but do treat it with respect and it will save your life" ;)
I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

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