I cant believe this needs to be said but.......

[dgskydive 0]

I have had a few pm's today from low time jumpers that have just amazed me.

In light of this weekends incidents they have just realized that they, you, I can die in this sport.

Why would you think that you can't? Why would you think that you won't be the one?

I can understand a student doing there 1st tandem not really thinking about that fact. They are reassured by overy person on the DZ that they are gonna be fine, they are gonna have the time of their lives. It will be great! You will remember this for the rest of your life.

But if you are a regular jumper and don't think it will ever be you, or a close friend, or that hero you look up to. Here is a realty check. It can and will happen. You will know someone that died. You will see it. Even right now someone reading this will say "nope, not me!" Wake up you are lying to your self and your family and your wuffo friends.

Old time jumpers know this, the people that pioneered our sport saw it much more then most of us ever had or will. They didn't lie to each other or wuffos.

I think a big problem with this sport today is the people that think it won't be them.

People that think an AAD will save them....you are stupid!!! People that think an RSL will save them....you are stupid. People that down size to fast.....you are stupid. People that think they will make it in this sport and never get smacked in the face by death in some way....you are stupid. If you are not thinking about the chance of death every time you step on a plane......you are stupid.

We are doing what man was never ment to do and we love it. Just don't be stupid. Think of all the possibilities. Be as safe as possible. Use your AAD's, use your RSL's they do help, but they are not full proof. The only way to insure you won't die jumping is to never jump.

PEOPLE, YOU CAN DIE IN THIS SPORT!!!!!!!!

YOU WILL WATCH A FRIEND DIE ONE DAY!!!!!!!!!!

YOU WILL SEE A BLOODY MESS ON THE LANDING AREA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU WILL SEE A FRIEND NEVER WALK AGAIN!!!!!!!!!

IF YOU CAN'T EXCEPT THIS THEN GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LIFE IS ROUGH, SKYDIVING IS EVEN ROUGHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dom

[Mike111 0]

Even though i have hardly any experience in this sport, I think thats a great bit of advice to everyoe, especially low timers like me.

THnaks

[mattyblast 0]

The tandem video that is shown at our DZ makes this reality very clear. The inventor of the tandem rig (shame on me for not knowing his name offhand--but I'm a noob) states something like, "You are trading the thrill of this skydive with the risk that you will be seriously injured or killed."

Your post is well-put. Even if everything (including your brain) functions perfectly, fate and fate only can be the thing that kills you in this sport. And as one of my coaches once told me, fate doesn't care who you are, how many kids you have, how much money you have, or how important in society you are.

"DOOR!!!"

[Amazon 7]

Thanks Dom,

A tad harsh but its all true....this weekend has hit me kinda hard....

I watched my first fatality at Greene County in 1976...it was an old guy with one leg who went in with a streamer and cut away too low for the reserve to deploy. I have watched others... too many.... I gave up the sport in 1981 to be responsible.. so I could be there for someone and I was tired of the carnage and the place I moved to had the potential for even more of the carnage.

I returned to the sport in 2003 and since then have met and jumped and partied with some amazing people. I think my number of people I have met at various places since I started jumping again are about 12 now who are no longer with us....It is a harsh sport... the highs are very high... and right now I am in one of those very lows.....

[Frenchy68 0]

Quote

The inventor of the tandem rig (shame on me for not knowing his name offhand--but I'm a noob) states something like, "You are trading the thrill of this skydive with the risk that you will be seriously injured or killed."

You mean the guy with the ZZtop beard? He's dgskydive's older and wiser twin brother. I always get them confused...
Yes, it seems it this hobby of ours will someday break your/my heart. It will do so either by hitting the ground too hard, or by being close to someone who fought and lost his/her fight against gravity.
And so it goes...

Peace to you all.
Dom, stay gold, and safe.

N.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[dgskydive 0]

I ment it to be harsh.

We as jumpers kinda of look over the fact. If you talk about death on the DZ you are told not to.

Shhhhhh.....your gonna scare that student!

Well they should be scared. If they can't handle the truth then this sport is not for them. I am tired of people (myself included) trying to gloss over it.

If I just made 10 people quit jumping, that is 10 people that don't need to be in the sport and I may have saved them a lot of pain later on.

I lost 3 people this weekend that I knew very well. 3 people that will never make me smile again. I knew it could happen to them and that is the only thing that keeps me from totally losing it.

I keep thinking of that movie " A Few Good Men"

"You can't handle the truth!!!!!"

If people can't handle the truth, then go away and save yourselves the pain and losses you will have one day.

If they can handle the truth, then live life and love life and your friends, because they may not be there tommorrow.

Dom

[PLFXpert 0]

I think it's important to add this can be said about many, if not most, things in life.

Skydiving is relatively safe compared to driving my car each day. My car doesn't have a reserve, so to speak.

And while I agree you must accept the possibility & probabiliy of all of the above you mentioned, I would NOT go as far to say it is a given. It's just like anything else.



Edit: Please continue reading for clarification before responding. Chances are, someone else already said what you're about to.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Remster 24]

Quote

Skydiving is relatively safe compared to driving my car each day.

Get real.

Seriously. Get real.

Remster

[jumper03 0]

Quote

I lost 3 people this weekend that I knew very well. 3 people that will never make me smile again.

I whole-heartedly agree with everything you said but this....new smiles, maybe not...but damn I've got some good memories that will put a smile on my face when I think of the good times we had.

Scars remind us that the past is real

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

I think it's important to add this can be said about many, if not most, things in life.

Skydiving is relatively safe compared to driving my car each day. My car doesn't have a reserve, so to speak.

And while I agree you must accept the possibility & probabiliy of all of the above you mentioned, I would NOT go as far to say it is a given. It's just like anything else.

I don't mean this as a personal attack on you, so please don't take it that way.....but this is exactly what I am talking about. It is the additude that has been bred into jumpers over the last 10 years maybe.

Wake up. It will happen. You will see it. It may be at your home DZ, or a far away boogie, but it will happen. Kid yourself if you want to. Because that is all you are doing....kidding yourself!

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

Quote

new smiles, maybe not...but damn I've got some good memories that will put a smile on my face when I think of the good times we had.

Thanks for reminding me of that. You are 100% correct!

Dom

[PLFXpert 0]

This is the best I can do:

Based on the number of licensed drivers in the United States in 2005 and the reported number of car-accident related deaths.

Vs.

Number of USPA members and the reported # of skydiver deaths in 2005.

Both assume the same thing: Not every licensed driver drives. Not every USPA member jumps. There's not really a way ( at least, in a few minutes time) to do a completely accurate comparison, but by my calculations, the percentages are the same with .001 percent chance more skydiving.



I stand by what I said--admiting the car analogy was not the best.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Zipp0 1]

I figured out real quick that you could die in this sport when I let go of the strut that first time. Weekends like this just drive that point home.

I agree that everyone should realize that you can die. At the same time, when I am hanging on the strut, that's the last thing I want to be thinking about. Once I have accepted the risks, I just want to think about what I need to do to have a safe skydive.

Zipp0

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

I think it's important to add this can be said about many, if not most, things in life.

Skydiving is relatively safe compared to driving my car each day. My car doesn't have a reserve, so to speak.

And while I agree you must accept the possibility & probabiliy of all of the above you mentioned, I would NOT go as far to say it is a given. It's just like anything else.

Like Remster said, you need to sit back and ponder this. It is very important to understand why. The first step to rationalization is to start comparing safety of Skydiving to other activities. All such comparisons are invalid! I always cringe when I hear people use them. Skydiving is not "SAFE". It will never be. You should be thinking about this always, and constantly be aware of it. It should scare the hell out of you anytime you catch yourself rationalizing. Don't fool yourself.

dgskydive's comments are 100% the cold, hard, truth. When the old timers are talking about death in front of the students, they are just thinking out loud, instinctively, constantly working through the process of keeping it real. If you find that you have to walk away in order not to hear it, then you shouldn't be skydiving.

[dgskydive 0]

Stats don't help in this situation. I am not talking about how many of us die or get injured.

I am talking about the fact that this is a small community and the 7 degrees of seperation rule is in effect. Hell I bet it takes less then 7 degrees of seperation in this sport. You will know someone, you will see someone. It will happen.

Dom

[niolosoiale 0]

I was thinking to start a thread in SC somewhat related to the nature of death and skydiving. As I was typing it, I kept on thinking, should I do it or not. I didn't, mostly because I was getting incredibly convoluted while trying to make sure the thread was presented in the proper context. I also figured it wasn't really a good time to say anything, considering my level of detatchment from this weekend's events.

Regardless, here are a couple things I can say that I think universally ring true.

Death is as inevitable as the life it concludes. You can spend your life running from it as many do, fear it, hate it, do everything you think you can to stop it. But it will gain you nothing. However, ironically, once you accept death you can begin to see a beauty in life that you may not have noticed.

You see death serves as the final accent to one's life. It brings attention to the life it took. The people affected by the life have this time to come together in unison and share, not only in the grief and pain of a loved one's death, but in the joy and happiness that person's life. While I wouldn't suggest anyone took a moment of the lives of our friends who have recently left us for granted, I would suggest that you take this time to soak in the positive memories and interactions of the deceased and all those people they affected like you. For these are the gifts that death leaves for everyone who goes on living to remind them to live their own lives to the fullest.

The pain makes the joy, the beauty, and the happiness, that much sweeter.

[PLFXpert 0]

I do not believe it is given I will see it in my lifetime. I accept the possibility I might.

Furthermore, I could very well be at said DZ or boogie in the event of such a thing and not see it. I also drive each day when they are thousands of accidents (some resulting in death) that I also did not see.

Perhaps not the best analygy as I previously noted.

I am done here---it is not my intention to lessen the impact of importance of being aware of these facts.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[fool 0]

I agree with what you said, but wanted to add my point of view on this anyhow. I think it varies greatly person to person on when that reality check comes in. I know for me, I probably had 200 jumps before I seriously asked myself if I was willing to potentially give my life for this wonderful sport and the people that are in it. I eventually said yes obviously, but realised that I was previously in the crowd of "it will never happen to me," and I think for some people that's the way they get out of the plane for a while. I was told early on that it's a guarantee that if you spend enough time in this sport, that you WILL lose friends to it, but it didn't really sink in until later. People tell themselves that it's safer than driving, that it's never going to happen to them, or ignore the possibility of death because they aren't yet prepared to face the reality of it yet, but if you spend enough time in the sport, eventually you're going to ask yourself the same question I did.

S.E.X. party #1

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "f*#k, what a ride".

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

This is the best I can do:

Based on the number of licensed drivers in the United States in 2005 and the reported number of car-accident related deaths.

Vs.

Number of USPA members and the reported # of skydiver deaths in 2005.

Both assume the same thing: Not every licensed driver drives. Not every USPA member jumps. There's not really a way ( at least, in a few minutes time) to do a completely accurate comparison, but by my calculations, the percentages are the same with .001 percent chance more skydiving.



I stand by what I said--admiting the car analogy was not the best.

Leave that nonsense up to the actuarial experts at the insurance company. We are all random statistics to them (nothing wrong with that, they don't control and can't make assumptions about how/why we go about our activities). It makes no sense when you are weighing the risks against the benefits for YOURSELF. You have complete control of how/why you go about skydiving, and you can/should be thinking about it constantly.

[waltappel 1]

One old timer here (nearly 28 years in skydiving, 18 years in BASE).

You have valid points. So does PLFXpert. Let's not argue here. The last few days were devastating for both the skydiving and BASE communities.

Yes, you can die doing what we do.

Yes, you are kidding yourself if you think an AAD or RSL or any other device removes that possibility.

Let's be careful out there.

Let's also be a little kinder toward each other for a few days while we sort all this out.

Walt

[PLFXpert 0]

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I am talking about the fact that this is a small community and the 7 degrees of seperation rule is in effect. Hell I bet it takes less then 7 degrees of seperation in this sport. You will know someone, you will see someone. It will happen.

To be clear, I absolutely agree you will know someone b/c it is such a small community. And I HAVE known people.

One of my points is that it is not a given I will SEE it.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[Douva 0]

In my days as an instructor, I had a few students who seemed to think they were about to board an amusement park ride. That always worried me a lot more than the terrified students.

Just remember that the smart skydivers always know exactly what's at risk.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[dgskydive 0]

YOu have accepted the risks... you understand... that is all this thread was ment to do.

Good for you. I am just tired of seeing people "surprised" that these things happen. I am doing my part to open eyes to the fact and like I said if it causes 10 people of 100 to quit today, then maybe I saved them from pain later on that they are not able or willing to accept.

Dom

[ChangoLanzao 0]

Quote

I think it varies greatly person to person on when that reality check comes in.

I recommend that you go through that prcess at least every time you don your gear and line up to get on the plane.

[PRSKY71 0]

I am terrified of dying. There, I said it. That is why I have not moved forward in the sport. I want to sooo very badly, but I think about dying and I am frozen. I don't want to run away from the sport, I want to learn and become great at it some day. But, how to get over this fear when I can see how REAL the possibility is that something can go wrong.

This weekend and the terrible events that transpired brings it ALL home, even though I never met those (I'm sure) wonderful people who passed away. I am truly sorry for your loss.

--Sara

Character cannot be made except by a steady, long continued process. -- Phillips Brooks