Observations from an ultra newbie

[Texas-Girl 0]

Hello...I am new to the forum and have only had two tandem jumps. Recently, I decided to start researching the process of earning my AFF license.

Skydiving will my second big hobby. I have been a certified scuba diver for many years. Here are two difference that I have noticed so far:

1. The seems to be less pressure to buy equipment in skydiving. Several online sources, DZ included, warn about the dangers of buying gear as a newbie. It is refreshing to NOT be pressured into dropping a $1000 or more for "newbie" gear.

2. Also, after the initial formal education for licensure, there seems to be less emphasis on formal education and more emphasis on actually getting out there and practicing the sport in which you have been trained. It's a novel idea that experience actually makes one better at the activity being practiced. (LOL) Once again, it' refreshing. One of the big certifying agencies in scuba is PADI. The big joke is that it's an acronym for Put Another Dollar In.

Am I correct

[beowulf 1]

The pressure to buy your own gear will go up once you have your license. Mostly because renting gear all of the time is really expensive.

Your training after your license is really up to you. There are many routes to take depending on what discipline interests you most. Some require a lot more effort and time then others. If you want to be a world class 4way RW or 4 vRW competitor it will take a lot longer then if you just want to have fun with your new friends on the weekend putting together various formations or freeflying and looking at each other and just enjoying the view.

[Rover 9]

Beware of complications if you go jumping shortly after a deep dive.

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[Texas-Girl 0]

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Beware of complications if you go jumping shortly after a deep dive.

I am a very experienced scuba diver and that point is well known in scuba circles. But thanks for passing it on.

[kmills0705 0]

I have been a PADI certified SCUBA diver since I was a senior in high school (Jeesh that was 19 years ago!) and I never really felt pressured into buying my own stuff. I did eventually buy my own gear (including tanks) but never felt pressure.

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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2. Also, after the initial formal education for licensure, there seems to be less emphasis on formal education and more emphasis on actually getting out there and practicing the sport in which you have been trained...
...PADI. The big joke is that it's an acronym for Put Another Dollar In.

Am I correct

I'm not a diver, but I know there is a lot of technical stuff (depth times, decompression tables, ect) that need to be used on a regular basis. Mistakes are dangerous.

The only real number skydivers care about is pull altitude. (or the amount of beer in the fridge).
Most of it is learned skills, not technical knowledge. You can't learn body flight or canopy control out of a book. You have to do it.


And I hope you don't think skydiving is not going to cost most of your disposable income

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[popsjumper 2]

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The only real number skydivers care about is pull altitude. (or the amount of beer in the fridge).
Most of it is learned skills, not technical knowledge. You can't learn body flight or canopy control out of a book. You have to do it.

And therein lies a major problem within the industry....lack of knowledge. People, there's more to skydiving safely than just air skills. What you get out of the book could very well save your life one day. What you get by word-of-mouth could very well kill you.

For those if you in the U.S.A., get the SIM and read it and learn it.

For those of you who live by absolutes....save it for later and some other thread.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[airtwardo 6]

What you get by word-of-mouth could very well kill you.

Depends on who ya talk to!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[kelpdiver 2]

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1. The seems to be less pressure to buy equipment in skydiving. Several online sources, DZ included, warn about the dangers of buying gear as a newbie. It is refreshing to NOT be pressured into dropping a $1000 or more for "newbie" gear.

Two big differences:

1) the dive shop makes nearly all of its money on gear sales, while offering OW certs and air close to at cost. You're not going to pay to visit the shop.

The DZ makes the big money on tandems, decent money on students, and very little money on up jumpers. But the up jumpers represent a more reliable flow during the poorer weather seasons. And they do refer a lot of tandems.

2) dive gear for the beginner isn't different from dive gear for the expert. My primary regulator is the first one I bought, back in 1995. I've made other changes (particularly with BC to backplates) as I got more experienced, but only because my preferences got better refined.

But the recommended wing loading and canopy selection for the student and the A licensee is much more restrictive then that for the more experienced. And the costs are much higher - a new canopy can cost more than an entire dive outfit, esp for those in warm water. Even in cold water, I started out with about $1200 in gear.

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2. Also, after the initial formal education for licensure, there seems to be less emphasis on formal education and more emphasis on actually getting out there and practicing the sport in which you have been trained.

PADI obviously wants more classes - it's getting $20/card. Dive shops have the motivation of getting these people inside the store for more opportunities to sell (one reason why SSI has taken a lot of business from PADI). Past AOW, one reason shops want to teach rescue, divemaster, and instructor classes is they need more bodies helping with classes. The AOW and other specialty classes, otoh, are just easy money.

Certainly there are canopy classes, and FF and RW coaches out there for hire. And wind tunnels at $700/hr. But it's a much smaller sport - like diving was in the 60s. If skydiving grew to have millions of regular participants, we might see multiple USPAs, and lots of specialty classes.

--
A difference you'll probably see quickly is that other jumpers want to see you. While a diver might complain about crowded waters, the jumpers see another person to keep the turbines going on a light day, another person to do group jumps with.

[kelpdiver 2]

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And therein lies a major problem within the industry....lack of knowledge. People, there's more to skydiving safely than just air skills. What you get out of the book could very well save your life one day. What you get by word-of-mouth could very well kill you.

yeah - mistakes in skydiving are much more likely to kill/maim you.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Other differences to ponder:

Skydiving decisions can have incredible time pressure. At terminal speed, a typical deployment altitude of 3,000 feet AGL is ~15 seconds from impact. That provides damned little time to diagnose and respond to a problem.

If you get into trouble in skydiving, it is pretty unlikely that anyone else can help you. There is no parallel to “buddy breathing” in skydiving. Yes, there rare exceptions like Chris Gay’s lifesaving topdock over water, and stories of jumpers pulling for unconscious divers in freefall; but these are rare and not taught as procedures.

I don’t know about this issue in SCUBA diving… but in skydiving you can easily and quickly be killed by other jumpers. There have been a number of “innocent” jumpers who did nothing wrong, who were killed in canopy collisions in recent years.

Skydiving carries an entirely different social impact on friends, coworkers, and family. SCUBA divers are seen as adventurous, while skydivers are widely viewed as nearly suicidal.

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[airtwardo 6]

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Other differences to ponder:

Skydiving decisions can have incredible time pressure. At terminal speed, a typical deployment altitude of 3,000 feet AGL is ~15 seconds from impact. That provides damned little time to diagnose and respond to a problem.

If you get into trouble in skydiving, it is pretty unlikely that anyone else can help you. There is no parallel to “buddy breathing” in skydiving. Yes, there rare exceptions like Chris Gay’s lifesaving topdock over water, and stories of jumpers pulling for unconscious divers in freefall; but these are rare and not taught as procedures.

I don’t know about this issue in SCUBA diving… but in skydiving you can easily and quickly be killed by other jumpers. There have been a number of “innocent” jumpers who did nothing wrong, who were killed in canopy collisions in recent years.

Skydiving carries an entirely different social impact on friends, coworkers, and family. SCUBA divers are seen as adventurous, while skydivers are widely viewed as nearly suicidal.

And with scuba...forgetting yer gear isn't nearly so dramatic!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[erdnarob 1]

Welcome to the club, Texas girl. I hope your interest for skydiving will be as great as for skuba diving. Both are technical sports. You should know your equipment, your techniques, some physiological aspects and emergency procedures...etc in both cases.
I got a skuba diving certificate first in 1962 from France using the Cousteau-Gagnan system (probably one of the first civilian equipment) when very few people were doing that sport. In 1973 I got the certificate from PADI (Professional Association of Diving Instructors) in Canada. But this is when I discovered skydiving and put my choice and money into it only. For a little while, I was doing both and at some and occasions on the same day but always skydiving first then skuba (never the reverse because of air under pressure dissolved into the blood from skuba which could cause problem at altitude (less pressure) doing skydiving).
About the pressure to buy a rig now, well it comes generally from yourself when seeing people who started with you buying their own equipment. Actually, the Drop Zones which have rigs for rent are not pushing you too much for doing so since they make money form that.
There is however a difference between skuba and skydiving: the skydiving equipment which comprises reserve and container/harness can be quite different from another equipment because of the performances of the main parachute.
Skuba equipments are expensive but they are all giving the same basic performances which is not the case for main parachutes. To illustrate that, parachutes range in surface from 360+ square feet to 87 square feet or less which results in speed of 10-15 mph to speed up to 65 mph. For sure you don't have such difference in skuba equipment performances.
I guess the beginning of your statement #2 concerns skuba diving. If I am right then skydiving is really the place for a continuous education concerning (licenses, coaches rating, instructors rating, organizers, competitors, competition judge rating, rigger rating...).

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[auburnguy 0]

I have a stress and rescue scuba rating and have been skydiving for a couple of years and can tell you that from my observations and experiences the two have little in common. Skydiving is much more dangerous and demands a much higher level of concentration and education. Don't forget that just because someone has x thousands of jumps does not mean that they are safe and have the best advice. Find your dropzone's s&ta and take advice from them. That is actually a piece of advice from another poster on this thread which has proven to be some of the best skydiving advice I have ever received.

"If you don't like your job, you don't strike! You just go in every day, and do it really half assed. That's the American way."
- Homer Simpson

[Texas-Girl 0]

ROFL...for the record, I was not drawing an extensive apples-to-apples comparison...only stating two initial differences that I have noted.

[rehmwa 2]

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What you get by word-of-mouth could very well kill you.

I guess that's true if the newbie is a completely oblivious (they don't know who they are, be everyone else does) and just takes actions based on comments without thinking things through for themselves and deciding if it just plain "makes sense". If it doesn't, then they don't have to figure out the right answer, but they can go ask a few more experienced people.

The basics of skydiving are pretty simple. The gear is fairly easy to understand as well. It's not rocket science.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[shropshire 0]

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The gear is fairly easy to understand as well. It's not rocket science.

And, for most of us, that's just as well
Texas-lass : welcome to the sport, be safe and enjoy.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Croc 0]

Lost my C-card decades ago but IMHO the primary difference in the two sports is this:

Scuba is SLOW
Skydiving is FAST

This is a profound difference; in fact, they are in no way alike.

Welcome to the sport!

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[airtwardo 6]

This is a profound difference; in fact, they are in no way alike.

Sure they are, the gear all has neat buckles and snaps and stuff...and if ya run outta air in either-yer screwed!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Texas-Girl 0]

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The gear is fairly easy to understand as well. It's not rocket science.

And, for most of us, that's just as well
Texas-lass : welcome to the sport, be safe and enjoy.

Thank you for the warm welcome!

[Bertt 0]

Several people have mentioned this, but I phrase it a little differently. In most activities you can start out slow and gentle. You can ski on the bunny slope before you move to the steeper hills. You can scuba in the shallow end of the pool before you move to the deep end. In skydiving, there is only the deep end. If you're high enough to use a parachute, you're high enough to kill yourself. We sometimes see people in the first jump course who do fine rehearsing the skydive on the ground, but freak out when the adrenaline hits. Even if you start with some tandems and wind tunnel time, it's hard to ease into skydiving.

[hallux 0]

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Beware of complications if you go jumping shortly after a deep dive.

I am a very experienced scuba diver and that point is well known in scuba circles. But thanks for passing it on.

I was about to say.......I'm sure she knows that as a certified diver

[hallux 0]

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ROFL...for the record, I was not drawing an extensive apples-to-apples comparison...only stating two initial differences that I have noted.

get used to it.... people on here are going to tell you what they "know" and are most likely going to take anything you say out of context. They arent bad people or stupid. they just want to contribute.

[hallux 0]

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This is a profound difference; in fact, they are in no way alike.

Sure they are, the gear all has neat buckles and snaps and stuff...and if ya run outta air in either-yer screwed!

that was good. lol

[Texas-Girl 0]

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ROFL...for the record, I was not drawing an extensive apples-to-apples comparison...only stating two initial differences that I have noted.

get used to it.... people on here are going to tell you what they "know" and are most likely going to take anything you say out of context. They arent bad people or stupid. they just want to contribute.

Thanks for the insight.