Consistent off heading openings on my new Sabre 2

[Newbie 0]

I'm getting consistent off headers with my Sabre2. It must be down to how im packing it (or rather, how im not packing it) because i paid for a pack job for the first time in a while last weekend and it opened smoothly on heading.

Im finding its a 2 stage opening - not much of a snivel at all, and then it tends to react quite violently as it finishes line stretch - i can get anything form a 90-180+ opening (to the point where line twists are almost induced) on virtually every single opening. The swings tend to be quite aggressive too. I have about 50 jumps o nthe canopy now, so its not brand brand new.

I tend to push the nose into the cente of the pack job - which i have always done - but perhaps this is causing some issues as the nose fights for direction on opening? Im just not sure what i might be doing to produce consistent off headers - anyonwe with experience of Sabre2s got any thoughts?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[damion75 0]

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I'm getting consistent off headers with my Sabre2.

From my experience with them (I had one on loan for about 6 months), that is just a fact of life. I never liked their openings which is one reason why I never got one.

The on heading from the packer may have been a fluke. Sorry!

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[brabzzz 0]

Mine used to do that.

The Pilot I bought afterwards didn't, and nor did the Sabre 1 (shock, horror!) or Spectre that followed it.

I guess it's just a 'feature' of the canopy. Maybe there is some way to tame them and get lovely, soft, consistent, on-heading openings - but i'd rather just have a canopy that provices them no matter how you pack it or who packs it...

---------------------------------------
Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club
www.skydivebristoluni.com

[piisfish 135]

there was a post about this stating that John LeBlanc once said it was a feature of the canopy

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I'm getting consistent off headers with my Sabre2.

Every canopy is a compromise. Try to live with it .

This was known for long. I read reviews before buying at least.

[mktoson 0]

All I can say is get used to it

So far, this is the oldest I've ever been.

[WatchYourStep 0]

Newbie-

I was having the same problems on my Sabre 2 170, other than that I loved the canopy. I called PD to get a Sabre 2 150 demo and asked about my brisk openings. Kim (in the demo department) gave me some packing tips. I've tried them and the openings are much better and on heading. The big one was don't tuck the nose or roll it. Give them a call and ask for suggestions.

"You start off your skydiving career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience up before your bag of luck runs out."

[Newbie 0]

Quote

Quote

I'm getting consistent off headers with my Sabre2.

Every canopy is a compromise. Try to live with it .

This was known for long. I read reviews before buying at least.

I read plenty of reviews thanks and not one of them mentioned this.

It's not too much of a problem, but it is somewhat disconcerting.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Newbie 0]

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Newbie-

I was having the same problems on my Sabre 2 170, other than that I loved the canopy. I called PD to get a Sabre 2 150 demo and asked about my brisk openings. Kim (in the demo department) gave me some packing tips. I've tried them and the openings are much better and on heading. The big one was don't tuck the nose or roll it. Give them a call and ask for suggestions.

Thanks im definitely going to stop pushing the nose in and see what happens here. What other tips did they give you, if you don't mind mentioning them here.

Thanks

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[WatchYourStep 0]

Make sure the slider is evenly quartered. make sure the slider is pushed all the way to the top, make sure when you are rolling the tail you don't get the nose caught in the roll. Those were the big ones. Again I suggest you call them because they can answer more specific questions.

"You start off your skydiving career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience up before your bag of luck runs out."

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Make sure the slider is evenly quartered. make sure the slider is pushed all the way to the top, make sure when you are rolling the tail you don't get the nose caught in the roll. Those were the big ones. Again I suggest you call them because they can answer more specific questions.

Agreed. On a side note, don't roll the tail too tight. You basically only want it to contain the packjob and keep the slider up against the chips. Excessive rolling can worsten the openings.

Packing
Let the nose hang.
Keep the slider quartered
Keep the slider against the chips.

Opening
Keep symetrical - feet and knees together when the deployment sequence pulls you upright.
Don't fight the opening

End Cell Closure
http://www.performancedesigns.com/pdzone/videos_endcellclosure.asp

Watch that vid.

Blues!
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[darkwing 4]

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I read plenty of reviews thanks and not one of them mentioned this.

It's not too much of a problem, but it is somewhat disconcerting.

Interesting that you say that. The forums are full of complaints about sabre2 openings. I demoed one that was very bad in that respect (in all 8 jumps). But yes, they do fly well once they are open. I own a Pilot now.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[ChrisL 2]

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I'm getting consistent off headers with my Sabre2. It must be down to how im packing it (or rather, how im not packing it) because i paid for a pack job for the first time in a while last weekend and it opened smoothly on heading.

I've had two Sabre2 mains. They both opened off heading more often than not.

I now have a Pilot and it opens on heading.

When I used packers it made no difference in the openings.

__

My mighty steed

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

Quote

I read plenty of reviews thanks and not one of them mentioned this.

It's not too much of a problem, but it is somewhat disconcerting.

Interesting that you say that. The forums are full of complaints about sabre2 openings. I demoed one that was very bad in that respect (in all 8 jumps). But yes, they do fly well once they are open. I own a Pilot now.

I'll add my hat to the ring. I demo'd one when they first came out. The openings were always diving, spinning. Even when I had a packer pack it. The canopy was nice once open (I had to fight it to keep it from going into line twists), but with a camera on my head I didn't want to play that game every time.

The canopy was sent back to PD for a look-see. It never came back. They sent Square One a new one. Never did find out what that canopy's exact problem was. I'll stick with my Spectre, thank you.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[pilotdave 0]

My openings are almost always off heading. It's gotten a little better after a reline, but still turns at the end of just about every opening. Had a PD rep pack it (before the reline), and it still did a 270 on opening.

Only had a few hard openings, all just before getting it relined. Actually one since the reline, but that's what I get for having a student pack for me. Pretty sure he flipped the dbag before putting it in the container.

I've tried every tip to get it to open on heading. Nothing's worked for me. Opens the same no matter who packs it. Could be body position, but you'd think I would get it right more than maybe 30 times over my last 900 jumps, even if by accident.
Dave

[rehmwa 2]

Check the line trim too. PD has the charts on line.

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/linetrims/SA_097-170P02LT.pdf

Or, you can quick check the length difference between the outside lines and the center lines (that's quicker). I think most S2's the A1 and A5's should be within an inch of each other (usually a 1/4 or 1/8 delta), if the outer's shrunk to where it's more than a couple inches shorter than the A line, then you might consider a reline.

Another way to check for shrinkage is the brake lines. Can you front riser to a clean dive? Or does it buck when you front riser? Should be PLENTY of curve in the brake lines when you let it fly.

My wife had a recent problem - on heading, on heading, on heading, then as the slider started to come down a quick 90 left. Lots of line shrinkage, finally to the point that the front left corner you could really see the distortion. We're getting a reline as I write this.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Spizzzarko 0]

Don't push the nose in any. Quarter the slider really well and pull the slider out in front of the nose. Do not roll the tail very much if at all. Try 1/2 turn of the tail.

[Spizzzarko 0]

Also steer the canopy throught the opening with rears.

[rehmwa 2]

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Also steer the canopy throught the opening with rears.

Saw a pretty nasty spinning malfunction two weeks ago from a guy doing this. (but it was a velo - canopy was turning one way and he barely tapped the rear riser and it turned around and wrapped the other way catching the small riser input into the resulting twist and locking the turn = spinning out of control - it happened so very quick)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[WatchYourStep 0]

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Also steer the canopy throught the opening with rears.

Actually I was advised against this by the person I spoke to at PD. Not saying what's right or wrong, just repeating what I was told.

"You start off your skydiving career with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience up before your bag of luck runs out."

[brabzzz 0]

Quote

there was a post about this stating that John LeBlanc once said it was a feature of the canopy

Indeed. I got a packjob off John a couple of years ago after he heard me moaning...and, yes, it was also off heading!
Once they're open though, they're schweet as.

---------------------------------------
Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club
www.skydivebristoluni.com

[Newbie 0]

Quote

Check the line trim too. PD has the charts on line.

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/linetrims/SA_097-170P02LT.pdf

Or, you can quick check the length difference between the outside lines and the center lines (that's quicker). I think most S2's the A1 and A5's should be within an inch of each other (usually a 1/4 or 1/8 delta), if the outer's shrunk to where it's more than a couple inches shorter than the A line, then you might consider a reline.

Another way to check for shrinkage is the brake lines. Can you front riser to a clean dive? Or does it buck when you front riser? Should be PLENTY of curve in the brake lines when you let it fly.

My wife had a recent problem - on heading, on heading, on heading, then as the slider started to come down a quick 90 left. Lots of line shrinkage, finally to the point that the front left corner you could really see the distortion. We're getting a reline as I write this.

90 front riser leads to a little bit of bucking - what does that actually tell me?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Newbie 0]

Quote

Don't push the nose in any. Quarter the slider really well and pull the slider out in front of the nose. Do not roll the tail very much if at all. Try 1/2 turn of the tail.

Im definitely going to try nose out, flaked on either side as i never did this before with my hornet which opened consistently on heading, but i guess it could be the characteristic of the Sabre2 that it likes it's nose out. I always quarter well and make sure the slider is all the way down. Will also think about less turn on the tail, cheers old bean

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[ianmdrennan 2]

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90 front riser leads to a little bit of bucking - what does that actually tell me?

Almost always - That your brake lines are too short.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Rdy2skydive 0]

I had the same problem with my Sabre 2. It was a great canopy to fly but I couldn't stand the openings and had to get rid of it. Two things that helped:

1. Steer through the opening with the rear risers. Not recommended by PD but it made a difference for me.

2. Keep your legs together on opening. PD recommended this as it helps to keep your body more symmetrical during opening thus reducing the degree of turn on opening.

For the most part doing both of these together helped a lot but it never alleviated the problem. I ended up buying a Spectre instead. Good luck!