3 ring...did i assemble correctly?

[popsjumper 2]

Good stuff, Jason. I particularly like:

1. You're trying to learn on your own.
2. You're trying things on your own.
3. You're asking questions and getting info from different sources.
4. You're taking things back to your riggers and instructors before you actually put anything into practice.
5. You're doing all the right things.

What I didn't like is:
1. Hammering Airtwardo. I suggest not alienating him. He is one of our finest and has more knowledge than you and I both will ever attain. He has a sense of humor, yes. Pick his brain for knowledge.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[bigway 4]

I think that is the most serious post I have ever read from you oldman.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[masterrig 1]

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Good stuff, Jason. I particularly like:

1. You're trying to learn on your own.
2. You're trying things on your own.
3. You're asking questions and getting info from different sources.
4. You're taking things back to your riggers and instructors before you actually put anything into practice.
5. You're doing all the right things.

What I didn't like is:
1. Hammering Airtwardo. I suggest not alienating him. He is one of our finest and has more knowledge than you and I both will ever attain. He has a sense of humor, yes. Pick his brain for knowledge.

__________________________________

Nicely done!


Chuck

[FrflyPimpDaddy 0]

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halle-freakin-lujah Someone finally figured that out. My home dz is about an hour away. I wanted to see if i could do it myself. Im glad someone finally realized that.

I hate to break this to you, brother but an hour is considered in your back yard. When I was jumping in Texas I had to drive 3 hours to the nearest turbine DZ and if I wanted to get decent jumps in I had to drive 5 hours. Count yourself lucky that you can get to your DZ in an hour.

[ChrisL 2]

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wow...typo...sue me.

Dude, relax

__

My mighty steed

[TCMRigging 0]

A quick suggestion for the next post. When you post a pic demonstrating it done wrong please leave that pic and then repost it (not edit) done correctly. I was about to start making an ass of myself asking how people were seeing the loop pass through the RSL ring when it clearly was not. I think it also caused confusion down the line when people posted that they would jump it. Good job getting opinions though and double checking with your local dz before jumping it.

[mark 102]

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[P]eople were seeing the loop pass through the RSL ring when it clearly was not. I think it also caused confusion down the line when people posted that they would jump it.

I posted that I would jump it with the loop passing through the RSL ring. I was not confused about how it was assembled.

I wouldn't assemble it that way, but the number of people who explained why it might be a problem is exactly zero.

Mark

[SwampThing 0]

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Good stuff, Jason. I particularly like:

1. You're trying to learn on your own.
2. You're trying things on your own.
3. You're asking questions and getting info from different sources.
4. You're taking things back to your riggers and instructors before you actually put anything into practice.
5. You're doing all the right things.

What I didn't like is:
1. Hammering Airtwardo. I suggest not alienating him. He is one of our finest and has more knowledge than you and I both will ever attain. He has a sense of humor, yes. Pick his brain for knowledge.

And now he has to get even a bigger helmet, nice going Popsjumper!

The Pessimist says: "It can't possibly get any worse!"
The Optimist says: "Sure it can!"

[floridadiver81 0]

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My only question is why did'nt you pull the manual for your container .... most if not all manufacturers have the "owners manual" online and I'm sure they would be glad to help you out if it's not online ?

http://www.miragesys.com/Downloads/G4ContainerManual.pdf

http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=91&Itemid=38

Someone sent me the owners manual after this thread was started. I have it and read through it so i know it was done correctly after i did it initially....according to the owners manual.

"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie
"Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye

[floridadiver81 0]

Things between airtwardo and i are ok.

"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie
"Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye

[hajnalka 0]

I'm sure it would be OK if the RSL ring stayed in back of the riser in line with the riser grommet, but what if the RSL ring flipped around inboard when there was no load on the system? Could put a lot of force on that little white loop on opening ...

I'm not trying to start an argument with anyone, and you certainly have WAAAAY more experience than me, and it's your call if you'd jump it that way.

IMO it's too critical of a system to have it "almost" hooked up correctly.

Peace,
Dawn

[mark 102]

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[W]hat if the RSL ring flipped around inboard when there was no load on the system?

I'm having trouble picturing what you mean. Could you say more, please?

Thanks,
Mark

[sagan 0]

Not that I know anything -- just a thought.

Just because you hook up the 3 ring correctly does not mean the rest of the canopy is hooked up correctly... i.e. if you hooked up your right riser on the left side and left on the right. Then there's also the possibility that one or both of the riser was twisted before it was hooked up properly so now the a's and b's are crossing the c's, d's, and suspension lines somewhere.

So for the comment about "yea I'd jump that" did you mean "yea I'd jump that" with the assumption that the rest was ok and wasn't twisted or risers hooked up in reverse?

Thoughts? I'm sure there'll be comments

(And for the record the reason why I thought about this twisting or mismatching right away was because I demoed a canopy for the first time a few weeks back and thus had these issues among others hooking the main back up -- who knew it was a bad idea to just disconnect your main and then just stuff it in a duffle bag for hookup later expecting it not to be tangled with step throughs and all kinds of good stuff later )

-Patrick

[mark 102]

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So for the comment about "yea I'd jump that" did you mean "yea I'd jump that" with the assumption that the rest was ok and wasn't twisted or risers hooked up in reverse?

Yes, I was just commenting on how the 3-ring was assembled. I was assuming the rest of the assembly was correct -- thanks for pointing out that I was assuming a lot!

Mark

[floridadiver81 0]

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Just because you hook up the 3 ring correctly does not mean the rest of the canopy is hooked up correctly... i.e. if you hooked up your right riser on the left side and left on the right. Then there's also the possibility that one or both of the riser was twisted before it was hooked up properly so now the a's and b's are crossing the c's, d's, and suspension lines somewhere.

For the record...there is no main canopy on the rig. The risers are correct because they were flat when i installed them and the risers with the toggles are facing back...like they are under canopy. I know the proper risers are on the proper side because the rsl ring are both facing in..not out. The reason why i know that is becasue i was out at my dz this pas saturday and i looked at how another jumper's risers were set up...that and it was the same on the visual references that i got from the owners manual that was sent to me.

"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie
"Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye

[sagan 0]

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I know the proper risers are on the proper side because the rsl ring are both facing in..not out. The reason why i know that is because i was out at my dz this pas Saturday and i looked at how another jumper's risers were set up...that and it was the same on the visual references that i got from the owners manual that was sent to me.

Manual good, other jumpers as reference for rigging, not bad but... I'd go with my rigger. The reason I say that is because not all RSL rings are toward the inside. The container I jump for instance is designed with the RSL ring on the outside right.

I guess the message of the post is don't make assumptions even when you research it recognize that something important may still be missing from the big picture.

**edit** --- I just re-read my post. It seems to come across a bit crass or "i know better than you", that's not the intention of it, just dialog ***

-Patrick

[floridadiver81 0]

i cross referenced it wil the owners manual..it is done according to it. If i rigger says otherwise fine. For now it is as the manual states.

"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie
"Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye

[damion75 0]

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The container I jump for instance is designed with the RSL ring on the outside right.

That is a more unusual design? Did you have the rig from new? The only reason I ask is because of course risers can be removed from the canopy as well as the container...

So a right-hand riser with the RSL ringon the outside could quite easily also be a left-hand riser with the RSL ring on the inside... depending on who set it up!

That is just the risers of course and I guess the location of the actual RSL will dictate which side it is all hooked up - providing it is a factory original!

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[skyblu3 0]

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For the record...there is no main canopy on the rig. The risers are correct because they were flat when i installed them and the risers with the toggles are facing back...like they are under canopy. I know the proper risers are on the proper side because the rsl ring are both facing in..not out. The reason why i know that is becasue i was out at my dz this pas saturday and i looked at how another jumper's risers were set up...that and it was the same on the visual references that i got from the owners manual that was sent to me.

Looking at other jumpers gear is good as its good to be observant but remember not all gear is the same. There is such a thing as Integrity risers (reverse risers), they face the other way round. Very popular in Europe on PDf containers. So if you are going to copy other peoples set up make sure you are comparing to the same model container.

[floridadiver81 0]

[reply

Looking at other jumpers gear is good as its good to be observant but remember not all gear is the same. There is such a thing as Integrity risers (reverse risers), they face the other way round. Very popular in Europe on PDf containers. So if you are going to copy other peoples set up make sure you are comparing to the same model container.

Even if i looked at other gear it still in accordance with the containers owners manual...like i have stated a few times in this thread.

"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie
"Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye

[sagan 0]

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That is a more unusual design? Did you have the rig from new? The only reason I ask is because of course risers can be removed from the canopy as well as the container...

Yes that's the way this particular manufacturer sets it up. I've gotten plenty of double takes when people see it.

-Patrick

[hajnalka 0]

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[W]hat if the RSL ring flipped around inboard when there was no load on the system?

I'm having trouble picturing what you mean. Could you say more, please?

Thanks,
Mark

Wish I could post pics, but that's a challenge with my dial-up connenction.

I've talked a bit and learned a lot from the guy who invented the 3-ring system, and according to him, the length of the white loop is critical to give enough "play" or "float" in the cable housing amp fitting on opening, since that's where the load is translated.

(Note; I did NOT see the incorrect routing pics before the original post was edited. I'm assuming the loop went through an inboard RSL ring flipped behind the riser, in the vicinity of the riser grommet.)

If the RSL ring was flipped inboard away from the riser (like in the position they usually are when an RSL is connected) then this would effectively shorten the length of the loop, which would increase the amount of force translated to the cutaway cable on opening.

Over the years there have been instances of the loop placing excessive force on the cutaway cable on opening, that lead to "suck through" where the cable was pulled/crimped through the amp fitting/grommet at the top of the cutaway housing.

Result = not being able to cutaway the main canopy if it mals, which could lead to an entanglement if the main isn't landable and you have to deploy your reserve.

Then there are cutaway forces. Hard or impossible cutaways have occurred over the years, usually with violently spinning heavily loaded canopies. My husband had a very difficult 2-handed cutaway on a spinner several years ago, before hard riser inserts were the norm. He's a very strong guy, 3500 tandems and ~ 7000 jumps, and it shook him up. Bill Booth talked about 3-ring geometry relating to cutaway forces at PIA in 2005.

Especially with Ty17 mini risers, there are very small tolerances in how the rings are spaced, the length of the loop, and the position of the end of the cutaway housing.

Either situation (suck-through or a hard cutaway) may have nothing to do with routing the loop through the RSL ring; I'd just rather not see anyone chance it.

I've seen misrouted 3-rings that:
1. Caused a very difficult cutaway when it was attempted on the ground -- I believe it would have been impossible under canopy
2. Caused a riser to fall off at a guy's feet as he laid his main out for the packers after his 2nd jump of the day - it only held up under a load
3. Were jumped without incident.

I teach packing and gear maintenance class - incl. the 3-ring system - all the time, which probably set off alarm bells when I saw your post .

I hope this made sense.

To the original poster: I wasn't trying to overdramatize anything. This IS serious stuff. It sounds like you're learning a lot, and you have some great people looking out for you. Sadly I know people with thousands of jumps who wouldn't dream of trying to hook risers up to a rig. You've already got them beat
Peace,
Dawn

[floridadiver81 0]

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To the original poster: I wasn't trying to overdramatize anything. This IS serious stuff. It sounds like you're learning a lot, and you have some great people looking out for you. Sadly I know people with thousands of jumps who wouldn't dream of trying to hook risers up to a rig. You've already got them beat
Peace,
Dawn

I am learning a lot. Thats my purpose for coming into these parts of the forums. Im a sponge...i have done a lot of research...i have been since the day i did my tandem. I come in here when i have a question and to learn from others. I tried attaching the risers to the container because im intrigued how the system works. I learned why it how and why it works. You say you know people with 1000's of jumps that wouldnt attempt to do what i did. I like knowing how things work..and you cant fully understand how something works until you either tear it apart and rebuild it or build it from the start. I was talking to a gentleman on the phone about this ver subject among others. I want to learn as much as i can about the gear that i jump...even gear i dont jump. There is no suck thing as useless knowledge when it come to skydiving...if not for my own purposes...for someone else that may have a question. I know im new in the sport and i shouldnt know as much as i do...and yes i know i shouldnt be investing in gear this fast..but it is my choice. I know enough to have gear checked out before it is jumped regardless of what i think i know. Im human..i may be wrong...anyone can be wrong.

Dawn..i didnt take anything you said offensive simply because of how you worded it. I wish other would follow your same suit.

"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie
"Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye

[mark 102]

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I'm assuming the loop went through an inboard RSL ring flipped behind the riser, in the vicinity of the riser grommet.

The riser was manufactured with the RSL ring centered on the rear of the Type-17 riser, which allows the riser to be used with a right- or left-side RSL. If the loop is routed through the ring in this configuration (instead of pushing the ring aside), the ring adds a bit to the distance the loop needs to travel to get to the yellow cable, but doesn't put any stress on the cable itself when there is no RSL attached.

Mark