I&R Price - Raising yours if we go to 180 days?

[mnskydiver688 0]

I guess I am confused by your logic. Are you saying that with 3 repacks a year there is more preventative maintenance? The total cost of repairs would remain the same throughout the year. What this does do is put more pressure on individual jumpers to keep an eye on there gear which I think is good. I might still be suffering from newbie aww of our equipment, but I always nit pick at my equipment and if something looks fishy I ask about it.

One way I am looking at this is lets say there is a piece of equipment that is starting to show signs of wear and could be replaced, but it is ok to use until the next repack. Now it will go through 4 months of use and possibly fail because of the wear that was originally thought of as ok. When you go to 6 months between repacks if something is questionable someone would be more inclined to replace it because of the extended time until the next inspection.

Just my funky logic. Also for those of us who jump in the north we would only have to get one repack per year instead of two.

Sky Canyon Wingsuiters

[hajnalka 0]

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I guess I am confused by your logic. Are you saying that with 3 repacks a year there is more preventative maintenance? The total cost of repairs would remain the same throughout the year. What this does do is put more pressure on individual jumpers to keep an eye on there gear which I think is good. I might still be suffering from newbie aww of our equipment, but I always nit pick at my equipment and if something looks fishy I ask about it.



When you go to 6 months between repacks if something is questionable someone would be more inclined to replace it because of the extended time until the next inspection.

Amen to you, and amen to Mike Gruwell for his excellent post.

If a 180-day repack cycle caused more jumpers to learn about their gear and take an interest in maintaining it as the life-saving equipment that it is, I might be tempted to LOWER my prices
After the day I've had rigging, I'm not kidding in the slightest. 6 rigs to repack, owners wanting to jump this weekend.

5 rigs with Cypreses out of date for 4 or 8 year inspections. One Cypres over its 12-yr + 3 mo. expiry date. Tons unhappy customers, phone calls, e-mails, talking people through decisions whether to get repacked/jump without AAD, opening reserves, yanking Cypreses, paperwork up my 'what-have-you,' boxing and shipping, etc. and a 16-hour day.

Money I earned = 0.
Keeping people safe = priceless !!!

Skydiving is NOT a right; it's a priviledge. Priviledges normally cost $, and come with some personal responsibility. I urge anyone and everyone who can to get their rigger's ticket. If you can't, at least KNOW your rigger.

I'm a libertarian at heart, and I'm all about supply and demand.

I chose to live this lifestyle, I'm not starving, and life is good.
I'm looking forward to the 180 day cycle; hope it comes soon.

Best,
Dawn

[georgerussia 0]

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and I can make 50 bucks in under an hour of main packing, with much less training and responsibility.

A small correction: while you definitely could make 50 bucks in under an hour of main packing on busy boogie or during busy weekend on big dropzone, it happens relatively rarely. AFAIK most reserve repacks are done on weekdays or evening, when you definitely cannot make 50 bucks an hour by packing mains - there are no much mains to pack.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Your second graph is a supply shift. The new 180 day rule represents a demand shift- from 3x the number of rigs out there to 2x the number of rigs out there. The supply of rigging services available does not change. The demand shift requires a new graph to represent the new equation D=2N where N= the number of rigs out there. New equation- new line on the graph paper. Movement should occur along the supply line to a new equilibrium at a lower price and quantity.
A new supply line may occur subsequently as some riggers exit the market. This will result in a higher price and constant quantity. Whether the demand shift or the supply shift dominate the price depends upon the price elasticity of supply since the price elasticity of demand is assumed to be close to infinite in this neighbourhood. The graphical implication of the last sentence is that the demand curve is almost vertical.

[masterrig 1]

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I think a 50% price increase would just mean that riggers will finally get paid what they deserve.

40-50 bucks for a reserve repack is pretty lame considering an I&R takes me 3-4 hours, and I can make 50 bucks in under an hour of main packing, with much less training and responsibility.

Do people really give their last chance at life to the lowest bidder?

____________________________________

As far as some jumpers I know, yes!
When I was working on my Senior cert., back in the 80's, my instructor and I discussed prices, should the re-pack cycle go to 180-days. We came to the conclusion that 'it'll all come out in the wash'. We decided that there would probably, be more repairs. Money made from repairs would kinda fill in the gap of that one 'lost' I&R.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

I've had jumpers ask me similar questions about the cheapest smallest reserves. Some want to look 'cool' with a small rig on their back. I've actually had jumpers tell me that it doesn't matter to them that their reserve wouldn't handle their weight... the way they pack, they'll never need it anyhow! I've had some jumpers squeal like a pig under a gate, when I raised my prices from $25.00 to $35.00 for an I&R. I get the distinct impression from some, that us riggers are kind of a 'necessary evil'. Just try to tell some folks that it is inevitible that if, they stay in the sport long enough, they'll have a reserve ride. Then on the other end of the spectrum, you have those folks who really listen to you as a rigger and don't look at you like you're over-paid and full of shit.


Chuck

[Zenister 0]

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Which will the customer want, a $50 repack with $30 in repairs or a $75 repack?

separate Repack and Repair fees every time.

if you had to repair something i want to know about it. If it took additional time outside of the I&R you should charge for it. Not charging for actual labor performed is a VERY bad business decision and one that reduces the customers level of awareness..

IMO any repair, defect or deviation outside of the normal repack process SHOULD be charged for, HOWEVER riggers are always free to offer 'additional services' (at a fee) during regular I&R.

I want my rigger to completely inspect my entire rig (main and container) EVERYTIME i give it to them, I tell them this and fully expect to pay for the additional time and attention. I imagine if the longer cycle is implemented more jumpers would ask the same. Those that dont... well "you pays yous money, you takes yous chances"

They are the subject matter experts and are far more likely to catch something i might have missed. More eyes looking for potentially fatal defects is never a bad thing. However charging more for the SAME task, without any additional effort or overhead cost increase is simply gouging the customer.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[floormonkey 0]

I tell everyone about every repair. I include these things for one reason: Repeat business. I have a very high return customer rate, one I've worked on for a few years now.

Trust me, my customers hear about failing to maintain their gear, ways to maintian their gear, and all the half-assed rigging I find.

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

Going into it... If the repack cycle goes to 180 days... I figure I'll still charge the same for an I&R, $50, but I don't rig for a living and it will be most interesting to see what those riggers that do rig for a living and/or rigging is a substantial part of their income do. You gotta figure they're going to jack their rates for an I&R up since they'll be doing less I&Rs, but want to (need to) make the same amount of income?

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

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"It's no more work for the basic I&R so no, I won't raise my rate."

That's what I want to hear. I don't care that you will have less reserves to repack. The fact of the matter is that you aren't spending any additional time packing my reserve when I bring it in and you are not providing any degree of better service than you were before. Conclusion: you have no right to jack up your price for the service. Hell, it would actually help some of the busier lofts. The ones that seem to always have a backlog of work and take two weeks to get your shit done. Most riggers I know would relish the opportunity to get out and actually make some skydives on weekends instead of being slammed with "knee work." Nearly every rigger I know also possesses instructional ratings which they get to use when they aren't so backed up in the loft.

Just my opinion.

Chuck

[floormonkey 0]

It was pointed out to me that I sound like I have a low opinion of other riggers. I don't. I only have a low opinion of those riggers who don't check thier work and those who do half-assed rigging. One mistake does not a half-assed rigger make. Repeated offenses will, however, earn you that moniker, though I don't share my opinion with others.

Sorry for the insinuation.

[TCMRigging 0]

A refund if they use it on day 45? Hell no I would charge them more for making me pack the thing again. LOL

Chris

[BrianM 1]

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Conclusion: you have no right to jack up your price for the service.

No right??? Your rigger has the right to charge whatever price they want to for an I&R. You, of course, have the right to take your rig to a different rigger if you don't like it.

"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

[jumpwally 0]

Can any body put a price on their life? What the fuck whiners ? Is beer and smokes that imortant ?

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I don't know who that was directed at, but I can assure you that I do not smoke and I don't spend alot on beer. I don't "whine" about I&R prices because I don't now nor will I ever get hosed by price gougers.

Michael sent me a PM earlier where he pointed out that riggers had every "right" to charge what ever the hell they felt for a service. I responded that my responding "right" was probably too strong a word, but that didn't change my opinion about this subject. Yes, most of us understand micro/macroeconomics from school and, yes, we all know that businessmen have every right to charge "what the market will bear" for their product or service. That, in my opinion does not make a "50% hike" for the I&R service right in my mind.

Hell, I already feel terribly sorry for you poor bastards who jump at Perris and get routinely stuck with $75 repacks. Unbelievable. I don't know ANYONE on the east coast that pays more than $35 for a reserve repack on a sport rig.

chuck

[sundevil777 93]

The question of whether prices will go up is not going to be governed by the ordinary forces of supply and demand. I think this because in general it is not such a free market for the services. Perhaps the experience of other countries offers the best way to predict what will happen.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[mark 102]

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The question of whether prices will go up is not going to be governed by the ordinary forces of supply and demand. I think this because in general it is not such a free market for the services. Perhaps the experience of other countries offers the best way to predict what will happen.

A rather opaque post.

If prices will not be governed by supply and demand, how will prices be determined?

There is a barrier -- more of a low hurdle -- to entry in the form of FAA certification, but is there anything else that prevents there being a free market? What prevents an East Coast rigger from going to the L.A. area and getting rich by charging $50 for a $35 pack job and undercutting those eeeevil price gougers who are getting $75 from willing customers? Or is the barrier the shame that East Coast riggers feel about asking a price that might compensate them for their time and allow them to pursue rigging as a profession?

What experience of other countries might predict what will happen?

Mark

[sundevil777 93]

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Quote

The question of whether prices will go up is not going to be governed by the ordinary forces of supply and demand. I think this because in general it is not such a free market for the services. Perhaps the experience of other countries offers the best way to predict what will happen.

A rather opaque post.

If prices will not be governed by supply and demand, how will prices be determined?

There is a barrier -- more of a low hurdle -- to entry in the form of FAA certification, but is there anything else that prevents there being a free market? What prevents an East Coast rigger from going to the L.A. area and getting rich by charging $50 for a $35 pack job and undercutting those eeeevil price gougers who are getting $75 from willing customers? Or is the barrier the shame that East Coast riggers feel about asking a price that might compensate them for their time and allow them to pursue rigging as a profession?

What experience of other countries might predict what will happen?

Mark

I did not mean anything at all like what you have said.

By there not being such a free market for the services, I mean that some DZs have on site rigging lofts and require rigging work done on the DZ to be done through their loft. It is not as convenient to use off-site riggers. Also, I vaguely remember reading on this forum that some off-site riggers face pressure to charge the same as the on-site loft. I don't mean to exaggerate my contention, just that there are some things that make it not such a free market, that is all.

Post #31 mentioned how the rate went up in the US in 1978 when the repack cycle was changed. I had thought that another user had posted a similar increase in prices for another country when they changed, but I now realize that there was just the one post about the '78 experience.

I would think that there have been other countries that that have recently (within the last 10-20 years) lengthened the cycle that could provide some experience that might predict what will happen here more accurately than looking at supply-demand curves from an economics textbook.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[dorbie 0]

Where's the option for the price should go down?

If there's a sudden 33% decrease in demand but supply remains approximately the same... I'm just sayin.....

Shoulda read the thread, others beat me to it, with pictures....

[hajnalka 0]

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Hell, I already feel terribly sorry for you poor bastards who jump at Perris and get routinely stuck with $75 repacks. Unbelievable. I don't know ANYONE on the east coast that pays more than $35 for a reserve repack on a sport rig.

chuck

All of our CSS/Downwind Carolina customers pay $50 for a sport rig repack, and they seem happy to do so.

We're on the East Coast .

We also have some customers from the NYC area who love having us repack their gear at boogies, because it's much cheaper than what they're paying up there.

One thing that I think is lacking in this convo re: supply & demand, price, economics, can-riggers-live-on-what-they-make, etc etc is the QUALITY of what you get for your $50. (or $75 or whatever.)

Warning: I'm going off on a tangent here:

Jumpers evidently pay anywhere from $35 to $75 for a repack. They obviously expect an in-depth inspection of their gear. That's what the 120-day I&R is all about. I can whip out a reserve repack in 20 minutes, but it might take me up to an hour or a full day to inspect everything, and then do a bunch of research on service bulletins and ADs, make sure your reserve links are correctly tightened, tack your bumpers, tack your main slinks, check your main PC kill-line length, etc.

I have a problem with this thread because people see an I&R as a commodity, worth X amount.

I see all of y'alls point, but please understand that all repacks are NOT the same.

What someone wants to pay me to know their gear and try to keep them as safe as possible is NOT the same as what they're going to pay Rigger X down the road to get them legal for a boogie .

Best,
D

Edited for clarity, I hope.

[mark 102]

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[P]lease understand that all repacks are NOT the same.

Amen.

Mark

[billvon 2,396]

>Hell, I already feel terribly sorry for you poor bastards who jump at
>Perris and get routinely stuck with $75 repacks.

Well, very few people use the loft for repacks. That's like room service; you only use it when you're in a hurry and don't care how much it costs. Repacks run about $40-$50 outside the loft.

[CrazyL 0]

Rates will remain the same over a year period. 4 pack cycles or 2. People I rig for have no problem with paying me, whatever the price. Some jumpers gear is shipped to me wherever I am which cost is sometimes more than the rigging service. If you want a repack for $35 I can't help you. As a jumper i'd plan to spend $500 - $800 or so a year in skydiving gear maintenance. $300 -$400 in I&R main inspection and packing per year. AAD maintenance $100 per year. Then theres the pluthera of repair/replace cost. Skydiving is an semi expensive sport, Rigging and repairs are still relatively cheap in comparison to the cost to participate.

[SpecialKaye 0]

$35, you must have a foreigner, living on the DZ for next to nothing packing for that price. That was a price I saw 11 years ago, not recently.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

On the contrary. A Red-blooded american Master Rigger who is about to the the DPRE for the region. Him and any number of other super-qualified riggers who don't attempt to make a living solely by packing. Please don't pretend to assume that people who charge more are more qualified than those who still charge $35.

Chuck