Neptune reset in freefall

[airricks 0]

I had kind of a weird thing happen with my Neptune today...

It was the first jump of the day, and it acted normally all the way to altitude. I remember seeing it in the 12's around the 2 minute call. The next time I looked at it was in freefall and the display said Neptune with the S/N and said Press any key. I waited until I was under canopy, and then pressed a key and the display went to the home screen with the time and never went to altitude mode the rest of the jump. The logbook didn't log a jump on that jump either.

I just put a new battery in it a couple weeks ago, and don't remember hitting it on anything on exit. Has anyone else had this happen? The Neptune worked normally on the next couple of jumps.

I did get to make my first jump without an altimeter though, unplanned as it was.

[kenneth21441 0]

Just my two cents.

I really dont trust equipment like that too much. As things do happen that is why I always jump a neptune and another altimeter... Just in case. I guess I get that from my techincal diving days.. always carry a back up....

But no never had that happen yet..
thansks.

Kenneth Potter
FAA Senior Parachute Rigger
Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA)
FFL Gunsmith

[AlRedler 0]

It may be your battery. A similar thing happened to me after I had replaced my old battery with one a friend had bought off the internet. I was using the Neptune as a helmet audible and it never sounded.

As my analogue wrist altimeter also broke on the same jump and I was backflying it made for a rather low opening!

I think the Neptune is sensitive to a bad battery. Mine is now worn on my wrist with a Solo in my helmet.

[airricks 0]

Yea, I guess when you go from a regular analog altimeter to a digital one, you run more of a risk of it not working properly. I think it still just surprised me to see it say press any key instead of my altitude!

I was jumping with some other people so I saw their altimeters, plus I had an audible, so pull time wasn't a problem. I kept checking it in the landing pattern though, before remembering it wasn't working. I replaced the battery so hopefully that helps.

Thanks for the replies.

[labrys 0]

Hey Eric,

When you replaced the battery, did you place the seal and springs back where they belong? I knew someone who had left one or the other out and that caused the same thing to happen occasionaly because the battery wasn't seated firmly in the case.

Owned by Remi #?

[twibbles 0]

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Yea, I guess when you go from a regular analog altimeter to a digital one, you run more of a risk of it not working properly.

You got to keep in mind the failure modes of analog and digital altimeters. For example, digital fails, you get nothing on the screen and you realise that it is broken the next time you look at it. Analog fails, needle get's stuck and the next time you see it, you still see an altitude reading.

Not that i'm saying that digital altimeters are more reliable then analogs, but it's just something a friend got me thinking about.

Eugene

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

[mark 102]

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When you replaced the battery, did you place the seal and springs back where they belong?

?

The Neptune seal is only required for water resistance. Also, no springs to fall out of your Neptune -- perhaps you are thinking of Pro-Dytter/Pro-Track springs?

Mark

[airricks 0]

Hey Kelly,

I don't have any springs in the battery slot on my Neptune, but I always have problems getting the rubber seal in place before I put the screws in. I know my Protrack has those little springs that have to be in place. Maybe I just bumped it somehow on exit and caused the battery to move for a second.

Thanks for the suggestion though, and for the ride back yesterday...

[airricks 0]

Very true. Analog altimeters may be just as likely to fail, just in a different way.

Thanks.

[LloydDobbler 2]

Hey, Eric -

Just wanted to chime in, and add my vote to the 'bad battery' explanation. Had the same thing happen to me (though not right after replacing a battery - but the Neptune was less than a month old, at the time, so I assume the batts were fairly new).

Changed it out, and everything has been working fine since. (Especially since I put my analog altimeter on a mudflap mount on my rig...)

I'd say chalk it up to a bad batch of Duracells. And since I've now dealt with both a failing digital altimeter and a failing analog altimeter, I'd say throw in some redundancy by adding a backup altimeter. The mudflap mounts are awesome.

Signatures are the new black.

[dragon2 0]

You already HAVE a backup for your alti. It's called "your eyes".

Seriously, jumping with 2 alti's is generally both foolish and slightly hazardous - you're gonna look at both alti's? What if they show different altitudes? Now you have to decide which one is right. LOOK AT THE $%^& GROUND. I strongly recommend using an analog alti if you don't trust your eyes yet. Work on relying on your eyes!

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Maxx 1]

Hey,
Had the same thing happen to my Neptune last year.. It just restarted when I was in freefall at 9000ft.. Still had my Protrack and my Timeout in my helmet, so it wasn't a big deal. If all 3 fail, I still have my eyes ;)

[slotperfect 7]

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You already HAVE a backup for your alti. It's called "your eyes".

I agree, but it does take some time to develop so its useful. It's also harder to recognize important altitudes the higher you are; it's more effective around pull altitudes.

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Seriously, jumping with 2 alti's is generally both foolish and slightly hazardous

I completely disagree. There are situations in which having two visual altimeters is advantageous:

-For all of my harness-hold AFF jumps I wear a Neptune on my left hand and a Galaxy inside my left wrist. I have an immediate altitude reference on either hand, which I can see docked and assisting with a pull or giving hand signals.

-I indirectly wear two visual altimeters when I do tandems as well. I wear a Neptune or Galaxy on my left hand and put an Altimaster II or Galaxy on my student's left wrist/hand. It's primarily for their reference, but serves as a backup if mine dies.

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What if they show different altitudes?

If they show significantly different altitudes, especially 4000 feet and below, have them both chambered and see which one is reading correctly - then send the one that is out of calibration to the manufacturer for maintenance.

Arrive Safely

John

[thelem 0]

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What if they show different altitudes?

Then you assume the lower one is correct and work out why they read differently before you jump either of them again.

This is actually a benefit to wearing two altis - what if you were only wearing one and it read high? (I know - trust your eyes, but thats not always easy for a new skydiver)

[airricks 0]

I do try to remember to estimate my altitude in freefall and under canopy, and then check to see how close I am. I still tend to rely on my altimeter especially for setting up in the landing pattern. I know altimeters and other equipment fail, I guess I just wanted to see if it was fairly common with the Neptunes or whether something might be wrong with mine.

Thanks for the replies guys.

[phoenixlpr 0]

This might not be the right forum to discuss this issue. Try here alti-2. You may got better feedback there.

[LloydDobbler 2]

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You already HAVE a backup for your alti. It's called "your eyes".

Indeed. True. But I'd trust an instrument more than my eyes, at this point...and I'd prefer not to break these eyes in on a 'trial by fire.' I mean, true, it's not like it's a life-and-death situation...or wait. Nevermind. It is.

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Seriously, jumping with 2 alti's is generally both foolish and slightly hazardous - you're gonna look at both alti's? What if they show different altitudes? Now you have to decide which one is right. LOOK AT THE $%^& GROUND. I strongly recommend using an analog alti if you don't trust your eyes yet. Work on relying on your eyes!

I don't think I ever recommended watching both altimeters. If the one on my wrist is working, great - I trust it. If for some reason it goes out (battery dies, whatnot - easy to see on a digital alti) at 9000 feet during a solo sitfly jump, forgive me if this is 60-jump naivete, but I'd rather have another backup altimeter up there to rely on, instead of dumping high, or spending the entire jump worrying about pulling too high or too low, then pulling when it *seems* right.

Neither really floats my boat, when there's a much simpler solution in the form of the second altimeter that would otherwise be sitting in the gearbag. That way, I don't lose out on a whole jump because equipment went out...and I don't lose out on my life because I was trying to trust my eyes to tell me when I was too low, and found myself thinking, "not quite yet." That, to me, sounds idiotic. I'll train my eyes to know when I'm low by having an altimeter to measure my estimate against, thanks, rather than waiting for ground rush to set in.

Sh!t happens with altimeters...I long ago learned not to rely on them too much, when 2 of my student jumps involved an alti needle getting stuck at around 6k-5.5k (not the best of altitudes for it to get stuck at, on a student jump). So I trust an altimeter about as far as I can drop it when standing firmly on the ground. But I trust 2 altimeters much more than I trust 1 altimeter and my eyes, at this point...and possibly anyday. Doesn't mean I'm not actively trying to get better at eyeballing altitude (useful skill to have, sure)...just means that, in the meantime, I find an instrument much more reliable. And this is my life we're talking about.

Since when did eyeing the ground and deciding when to pull become safer than looking at an altimeter, anyway? Seems that in our training programs, we teach students exactly the opposite...

Signatures are the new black.

[airricks 0]

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This might not be the right forum to discuss this issue. Try here alti-2. You may got better feedback there.

Cool thanks.

[dragon2 0]

If you have sufficient jumps, yes I agree there are situations where 2 alti's may work. But for beginners? Because they don't trust one of them? I still say: no way.

Luckily i'm not those guy's instructor

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[kelpdiver 2]

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You got to keep in mind the failure modes of analog and digital altimeters. For example, digital fails, you get nothing on the screen and you realise that it is broken the next time you look at it.

I've said this before - this is not true.

Digitals can fail in all sorts of interesting ways, not always indicating that there is a problem. In this case, it looks like it reset itself, and in that mode has a checkoff to make it obvious it did.

OTOH, one of my dive computers (Oceanic Dataplus) would enter a bad state if you hit the backlight button sometimes - the depth would rocket down, rocket back, then continue to work as a depth gauge, but suggest 60+ minutes of decompression. Another computer faded most of the LCD bars when it was cold. Back in the sun, they all came back.

For me, any visual on my wrist (digital or analagy, I use a galaxy) coupled with a solo dytter seems adequete.

[ORANGENBLUE 0]

How cold out was it? I have found that Neptunes can be kind of sensitive to cold weather, specialy if the battery is even a little low.

[azureriders 0]

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You got to keep in mind the failure modes of analog and digital altimeters. For example, digital fails, you get nothing on the screen and you realise that it is broken the next time you look at it. Analog fails, needle get's stuck and the next time you see it, you still see an altitude reading.

Someone has beat me to this, but I will repeat it anyway. This is simply not true. Digital readouts can fail in many ways. I have witnessed two Suuntos freezing up and continueing to read the same altitude from that point on in free fall. One of those were on my wrist at the time. I know a suunto is not made for skydiving, my point is simply about digital equipment, of any kind

[airricks 0]

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How cold out was it? I have found that Neptunes can be kind of sensitive to cold weather, specialy if the battery is even a little low.

It was mid 60's on the ground. It's certainly been jumped in colder weather with probably an older battery. I have noticed sometimes when it's colder out, the LCD doesn't respond as quickly.

I posted in Alti-2's forums and they are having me send it in to check the battery connection. I'll let you know what I find out.

Thanks.

[twibbles 0]

I understand what you mean, for a digital display, it all depends on what it's programmed to do when it fails. It could hold and display the last proper value, or it could be programmed to display a warning when it fails. I'm just hoping that for an altimeter it would display a big warning when it does fail rather then display faulty data.

Eugene

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

[kelpdiver 2]

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I understand what you mean, for a digital display, it all depends on what it's programmed to do when it fails. It could hold and display the last proper value, or it could be programmed to display a warning when it fails. I'm just hoping that for an altimeter it would display a big warning when it does fail rather then display faulty data.

That works great if the programming is intact. It appears the Alti-2 prepared for the possibility of a short term loss in power - a scenario that certainly could happen in midair when the draw on the battery jumps up. So it doesn't immediately go back into free fall mode guessing what the altitude is.

But you also can have damage to the circuitry and even the flash memory - drop it a few too many times or if you land in some water and didn't set that tiny o-ring well. It's challenging to design a product that can handle all failure modes.

Bottom line - with any altimeter, if you find yourself flying past a lot of open canopies, might be overdue to stop believing it.