Clarifying the numbers

[fred 0]

I know they're just guidelines or rules of thumb, but I was definitely taught some guidelines as a student that I don't quite remember.

I've tried searches, but I'm not finding the rules of thumb. Help me out by filling in the x's:

During the skydive:
1) If you're on a 2-way formation skydive, and you want an open canopy by 3000', you should break away at x ft.
2) At the breakaway altitude, you should turn 180 degrees from the formation and track for x seconds.
3) After tracking, you should "flare" for x seconds, wave-off, then pull.

During the approach:
1) You should start your downwind run at x ft.
2) You should turn crosswind at x ft.
3) You should turn upwind at x ft.

[tetra316 0]

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I know they're just guidelines or rules of thumb, but I was definitely taught some guidelines as a student that I don't quite remember.

I've tried searches, but I'm not finding the rules of thumb. Help me out by filling in the x's:

During the skydive:
1) If you're on a 2-way formation skydive, and you want an open canopy by 3000', you should break away at x ft.
2) At the breakaway altitude, you should turn 180 degrees from the formation and track for x seconds.
3) After tracking, you should "flare" for x seconds, wave-off, then pull.

During the approach:
1) You should start your downwind run at x ft.
2) You should turn crosswind at x ft.
3) You should turn upwind at x ft.

Skydive:
1 & 2 totally depend on how much separation you are comfortable with and fast/far you can track.
3 Me personally I have never heard of this. Just track, then wave off, arch, reach, pull. If do this sequence you should have stopped your track and be falling relatively straight down.

Approach:
Totally depends on the landing area/size. I can give you what we teach but that is only for our landing area. Talk to an instructor for your landing area generics.

[rygon 0]

with just coming off my AFF, i was taught track off at 5k...pull @ 3.5k ...depending how good your track is depends on how long this will take.

final approach ...start at 1k 1st turn @ 500ft second @ 300ft

[surfbum5412 0]

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I know they're just guidelines or rules of thumb, but I was definitely taught some guidelines as a student that I don't quite remember.

I've tried searches, but I'm not finding the rules of thumb. Help me out by filling in the x's:

During the skydive:
1) If you're on a 2-way formation skydive, and you want an open canopy by 3000', you should break away at x ft.
2) At the breakaway altitude, you should turn 180 degrees from the formation and track for x seconds.
3) After tracking, you should "flare" for x seconds, wave-off, then pull.

During the approach:
1) You should start your downwind run at x ft.
2) You should turn crosswind at x ft.
3) You should turn upwind at x ft.

Everyone that I've jumped with will insist a break-off at 4500'.

1.If you want a fully inflated canopy at 3000', I would say 5000' would be the correct break-off.
2. I just track for my life while watching others until my dytter goes off at 3500'.
3. Flare after a track is only a preference. I don't flare, I just get into a boxman and pull.

I was taught in AFF:
Downwind= 1000'
Crosswind= 500'
Final= 250'

[sebinoslo 0]

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During the skydive:
1) If you're on a 2-way formation skydive, and you want an open canopy by 3000', you should break away at x ft.
2) At the breakaway altitude, you should turn 180 degrees from the formation and track for x seconds.

Just a question: if it's a big way you may be the only ones in the sky and then you just track away asap.

But if you are doing a 2 or 4-way, you probably still have people getting off the plane after you.
Shouldn't you first and foremost track 90 degrees from the "plane line" and not simply 180 from each other? you could end up tracking under the next people who jumped off the plane.
Am I missing something?

[brettski74 0]

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But if you are doing a 2 or 4-way, you probably still have people getting off the plane after you.
Shouldn't you first and foremost track 90 degrees from the "plane line" and not simply 180 from each other? you could end up tracking under the next people who jumped off the plane.
Am I missing something?

Yes. You're missing something.

You should be leaving enough separation between exits so that each group has enough room for their break off. For larger groups, you should be waiting longer exiting after them. If you're doing a 2-way, it may be prudent to try to break off so you're both perpendicular to the jump run. If you're in a 4 way or larger, the people you are most likely to have a collision with during or after opening is the people in your group, so your first priority is to get adequate separation from them. Turn 180 from centre, track an appropriate distance to get clear and then look, wave, throw. If you do this and find yourself too close to the next group, then either you're tracking too far on break off, or there was insufficient separation between exits for the upper winds and group size. If you're unsure about this, talk to the instructors at your home DZ.

[erdnarob 1]

arch or de-arch in order to slow down ?

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[erdnarob 1]

On a 2-15... way for instance when other people left the airplane already or leave after you, you turn 180 degrees, track while trying to stay perpendicular to the line of flight avoiding that way to get close of other groups.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[sebinoslo 0]

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If you're doing a 2-way, it may be prudent to try to break off so you're both perpendicular to the jump run.

This was mostly the point I wanted to bring across, since the OP talks about 2-ways :-)

There is a FS camp soon at my DZ so I may get more into it and appreciate your explanation!

[tetra316 0]

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arch or de-arch in order to slow down ?

Arch. At least for newer jumpers. The idea being that if you are arching you are not tracking. De-arch for more experienced jumps who are more aware of their bodies to be able to do so.

[tetra316 0]

Please remember your altitudes for downwind, base and final are ONLY for your landing area. There are NO generics that will work everywhere. A landing are that is a square will have different initiation points for the pattern than a landing area that is long and narrow.

[popsjumper 2]

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During the skydive:
1) If you're on a 2-way formation skydive, and you want an open canopy by 3000', you should break away at x ft.
2) At the breakaway altitude, you should turn 180 degrees from the formation and track for x seconds.
3) After tracking, you should "flare" for x seconds, wave-off, then pull.

1) 1500 ft above deployment altitude (4500 ft in your example) see SIM Cat G
2) Young jumpers, 5-6 seconds. Experienced different. Horizontal separation is the key. Earlier mention was made about tracking perpendicular to jump run...always a good idea.
3) Young jumpers, 3 seconds. Experienced different.

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During the approach:
1) You should start your downwind run at x ft.
2) You should turn crosswind at x ft.
3) You should turn upwind at x ft.

[DanG 1]

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1) 1500 ft above deployment altitude (4500 ft in your example) see SIM Cat G
2) Young jumpers, 5-6 seconds. Experienced different. Horizontal separation is the key. Earlier mention was made about tracking perpendicular to jump run...always a good idea.
3) Young jumpers, 3 seconds. Experienced different.

1) 1500ft above highest deployment is the minimum recommended breakoff. It needs to be higher if you are doing anything other than a 4-way or smaller RW. Higher speeds, larger groups, less experienced people, are all reasons to increase the break-off altitude.

2) Tracking perpendicular to jump-run is only practical on a 2-way. Anything larger, and the need to get away from the people in your group takes precedence over the need to stay away from the next group.

3) The "flare" period of three seconds should include waving and looking. If you track for 5-6 seconds, flare for three, and then wave and pull you're going to need more than 1500' to do it in. When I work with students, I not only give them an altitude for pulling, but I make sure they realize that the pulll procedure (waving while looking for others, reaching, and throwing) should start about 500' feet above the intended opening altitude.

- Dan G

[fred 0]

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1) 1500 ft above deployment altitude (4500 ft in your example) see SIM Cat G
2) Young jumpers, 5-6 seconds. Experienced different. Horizontal separation is the key. Earlier mention was made about tracking perpendicular to jump run...always a good idea.
3) Young jumpers, 3 seconds. Experienced different.

As per USPA SIM Cat A:
1) 1000 ft
2) 600 ft
3) 300 ft

As tetra316 mentioned, these rules are general. The size and shape of the DZ can, and will, alter these numbers.
Thanks. I know these are reference numbers, but I wanted to refresh my memory on them. I knew the general advice was spelled out somewhere.

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[popsjumper 2]

Yep, DanG. You are right on all points. Although, note that the OP was talking about generalities for 2-ways.

...and yes, I should have specified that the general clock-times I mentioned was from break-off to flare to pull, inclusive.

Which brings up another point for the OP....how's your tracking? Diving- or flat-tracking? In the big scheme of things, time is not the issue, altitude is.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[fred 0]

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Which brings up another point for the OP....how's your tracking? Diving- or flat-tracking? In the big scheme of things, time is not the issue, altitude is.

I suspect I'm diving more than flat tracking, but how does a low-jumper know? I'm still concentrating on staying on heading.

I'm not very coordinated, and still very much a newb. I got my A a few years ago, and had to take a break, so I'm just getting back into it. While I'm quite confident in my solo abilities (My landings/flares are great, my accuracy has rapidly improved), I'm working on my skills and confidence when it comes to jumping with another person.

I'm just trying to be safe and predictable while I get back into it and improve my skills.

[popsjumper 2]

Good stuff, Fred...sounds like your on the right "track".

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[surfbum5412 0]

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But if you are doing a 2 or 4-way, you probably still have people getting off the plane after you.
Shouldn't you first and foremost track 90 degrees from the "plane line" and not simply 180 from each other? you could end up tracking under the next people who jumped off the plane.
Am I missing something?

Yes. You're missing something.

You should be leaving enough separation between exits so that each group has enough room for their break off. For larger groups, you should be waiting longer exiting after them. If you're doing a 2-way, it may be prudent to try to break off so you're both perpendicular to the jump run. If you're in a 4 way or larger, the people you are most likely to have a collision with during or after opening is the people in your group, so your first priority is to get adequate separation from them. Turn 180 from centre, track an appropriate distance to get clear and then look, wave, throw. If you do this and find yourself too close to the next group, then either you're tracking too far on break off, or there was insufficient separation between exits for the upper winds and group size. If you're unsure about this, talk to the instructors at your home DZ.

Great point.

First and foremost, I start my track on my back to get a good frame of reference of which direction everyone on the jump is tracking off to. After a few seconds, I switch to my belly-track and actively look for any possible canopies open below or around me, while keeping my track as perpendicular to the line of flight as possible.

[jsaxton 0]

While I know a few people that can effectively track away from a formation on their back, they are among the best freeflyers in the world. At the OPs experience level I would not recommend this.

[surfbum5412 0]

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While I know a few people that can effectively track away from a formation on their back, they are among the best freeflyers in the world. At the OPs experience level I would not recommend this.

Oh definitely, good point. Also, I don't know if the OP does RW or freefly either; RW are taught not to track on back.

I don't fully agree with with the statement that a few really good freeflyers can back-track. On the west coast, this is becoming a standard for break-off. But you are right, in that not everyone can do it.

If the OP is going to be freeflying... My progression started with when I was doing freefly coach jumps, he would have me back-track on break-off. Then I started back-tracking at breakoff on 2-way jumps with friends, and then on normal track jumps I would play on my back. Now I back track out of all jumps.