livendive 8 #1 June 30, 2009 So this weekend I had to talk to a few people with far more jumps than me about some things they were doing. I've been an S&TA for several years now, and am accustomed to people thinking I'm just trying to be an asshole, even though that's not the case. In one case this weekend, it was a guy who, from my perspective, pulled dangerously low. He didn't believe he had, but he took the time to write me an email the next day saying "whether I pulled low or not, you saw something and said something, and I appreciate that. Thank you for calling me on it." That is soooo opposite of the response most jumpers give me, and it made my day. Having been on both sides of these sorts of conversations enough times, I can assure you that initiating a "talking to" is even less pleasant than receiving one. I'm posting this in hopes that maybe some others here could put a similar smile on the face of your local asshole (ASO). Sure, as an S&TA, he likely knows better than to expect thanks for what is almost exclusively a thankless job, but that doesn't mean he won't appreciate it. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para5-0 0 #2 June 30, 2009 Amen, I feel the pain. I have addressed many issues most went well with a postive outcome. There are always the ones that think you are just an asshole or accuse you of administering justice unfairly or prejudical. One thing that has helped if I can pass some advice onto other Asshole &Training Advisors...Censor in private and praise in public. No need to embarass anyone. That has helped me trmendously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #3 July 1, 2009 How right you can be when you say it is always very touchy to talk to somebody who made a mistake. A guy at my DZ came back jumping very recently after having stopped for 5-6 years. I was happy to see him back but his first descent was not what I like to see : no concern about left hand traffic, repeated spiral turns in the landing area and to top that an illegal reserve. Being one of the person in charge of the DZ safety, I just talk to him about the reserve and hope for the best for his descent procedures. Last weekend the same guy came back and had about the same kind of behavior with no change for his reserve. This time I had a serious conversation whith him on his approach and his illegal reserve (not packed by a certified rigger). He took it rather badly and ask me if I wanted him to stop jumping at the DZ. Definitely that guy didn't understand my role and the consequences of his behavior. He said he was alone in the sky and I answered that other people thought they were alone as well while doing repeated spiral turns and killed themseves when they got a collision with other canopies. The case is in the hands of the 3 co-owners now. Two weeks before that, I did the same remark to a guy who had opened at 5000' while other were at 3000'. Few repeated spiral turns brought this guy at the same level that other people who were about to land. He had no time left to do the left hand pattern and had to land in the opposite direction that others. But when I talked to him, he knew already his mistake and he was very open to my remarks and very friendly shaked my hand . He too made my day.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mik 2 #4 July 1, 2009 At the dropzone I jump at most frequently, low openings result in a simple 'for you jumping starts again tomorrow morning' - an immediate grounding for the rest of the day. Nothing else, no serious talking to. It gives most people a good time to think about their actions (and of course if on the last load, they will be grounded the following day). Its something I have seen happen more than once and seems to work (lots of overseas visitors so each summer new people push the limits then find themselves on the ground for the remainder of the day). *********************************************** I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #5 July 1, 2009 Funny how it's always the more experienced jumpers that come back at you with the asshole responses, isn't it? Sometimes, well quite often actually, to these bozos ego is more important than safety. I'd like to say...to all you ASOs and S&TAs....thanks for you concern and guidance. Keep it up. Don't back off. Every jump you speak up may be the one time that you save a life on the next jump. Also...if you're an S&TA and you let your "buddy" get away with stupid shit because he's your "buddy"...please, please re-think that. ...if you're a DZO...please, please back up your S&TA and support his function with the power you hold.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #6 July 1, 2009 Quote Funny how it's always the more experienced jumpers that come back at you with the asshole responses, isn't it? Says the guy with 100,000 jumps and 99 years in sport. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nutz 0 #7 July 2, 2009 I am not an S+TA. There are some skygods that jump at the dz sometimes. If it is a good spot, one of them's canopy ride is shorter than his freefall. I said that to him one day when he was walking to the hanger and he said, "What are you saying?" I figure he has been jumping for a hundred years and it is not my place to say anything to him. If a certain AFF instructor cuts my off under canopy swooping by me again he will get a knuckle sandwich and he knows it. I was pissed when he did it the first time and said something to him when I got to the hanger. He didn't think he did anything wrong. I watch for him on the plane now, open high and wait for him to land so it is going to to be hard for him to swoop right in front of me again. (Yes, there are seperate landing areas, it is largely ignored now.) "Don't! Get! Eliminated!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aironscott 3 #8 July 3, 2009 WAIT a second. YOU had a conversation with someone else about pulling low?!? Methinks that you owe more than just some beer for this one. Pot, meet kettle. Hi kettle, my name is Dave ! How's my skydiving? 1-800-EAT-DIRT “God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #9 July 3, 2009 Quote WAIT a second. YOU had a conversation with someone else about pulling low?!? Methinks that you owe more than just some beer for this one. Pot, meet kettle. Hi kettle, my name is Dave ! Hey, you'd know that I've upped my pull altitudes if you jumped more often. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr_music11 0 #10 July 3, 2009 As one who is truly trying to be saftey conciencous, I appriciate a POSITIVE critisism. (but I also understand that if my actions were bold and stupid, I might solicit a bold and/or stupid response)However I will often will thank the person who has imparted their wisdom to me as it might just save my ass as well as theirs. However, I have been "ripped a new one" before as well... this is not AS welcome as the positive critisism but always try to believe that the person giving me their 2cents wants me as well as others and therefore the sport to be a safe one and then try to seperate their asshole tendencies from the nugget of important info that is being imparted. Being able to seperate the two has taken time and practice. Sounds like from your post that you have achieved at minimum some sort of tact which is important ( my ROTC commander taught me the definition of tact is "the abilitiy to tell someone to go to hell and have them look forward to the trip") Continued success, and thanks for helping to keep our community safe and well informed. blues/soft onesIf flying is piloting a plane.. then swimming is driving a boat. I know why birds sing.. I skydive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aironscott 3 #11 July 4, 2009 Allright. Since this is a public forum I won't air any fun laundry. But you have to admit, you telling someone not to pull, turn, go, low is kind of like me telling someone not to dork a fat chick. Do as I say not as I do.............. And - bitch- as far as me not jumping much lately.....I still have some panties with more freefall time than you. "Where's my panties?!" How's my skydiving? 1-800-EAT-DIRT“God Damn Mountain Dew MotherFuckers!” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #12 July 5, 2009 QuoteAllright. Since this is a public forum I won't air any fun laundry. But you have to admit, you telling someone not to pull, turn, go, low is kind of like me telling someone not to dork a fat chick. Do as I say not as I do.............. And - bitch- as far as me not jumping much lately.....I still have some panties with more freefall time than you. "Where's my panties?!" How's my skydiving? 1-800-EAT-DIRT ....................................................................... Yes, I admit that I have dorked a fat chick ... and it cost me a lot in alimony. But I have learned from my mistakes. Now I advise young jumpers not to dork fat chicks. S&TAs are expected to lead by example ... good example. Sure S&TAs did stupid stuff when they were young. That stupid stuff is why they limp and why S&TAs try to advise young jumpers to correct their ways to avoid growing the same scar tissue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #13 July 5, 2009 Quote Quote Funny how it's always the more experienced jumpers that come back at you with the asshole responses, isn't it? Says the guy with 100,000 jumps and 99 years in sport. Blues, Dave Is this where I get to throw in a freebie asshole response? My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladydyver 0 #14 July 6, 2009 Quote WAIT a second. YOU had a conversation with someone else about pulling low?!? Methinks that you owe more than just some beer for this one. Pot, meet kettle. Hi kettle, my name is Dave ! How's my skydiving? 1-800-EAT-DIRT mmmmm.......i think i remember you from long ago .... use to hang out and do tandems --- think i may have made you drool a time or two as well - when ya going to come out and play aaron? in all seriousness......dave you do a great job even if you are underappreciated. hopefully jumping with you for muttley's 200th won't be the last we fun jump with you for the season ----DPH # 2 "I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~ I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drdive 0 #15 July 6, 2009 Princess come out and play?????? Doubt it. He is home playing with his 12 hour freefall pantiesSeriously, I have been the recipient of an occasional comment or "talking to" by Dave. He is always low key, smiles, and is constructive in his approach. If I go to him with a concern about another jumper, he will always address it. Thanks, Dave. Doc PS can I play with your girlfriend???? I hear her boobies have recently looked fabulous in freefall "We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub" " Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pinkfairy 0 #16 July 7, 2009 It's not so easy. When a newer jumper does something stupid, maybe something he thought he would never do because he's "safe" and "good at what he's doing", it really, really bruises his ego, and is also pretty scary because his perception of what is safe was based on the fact that he would not do the kind of mistake that he just did. People get angry when they get scared or feel stupid. Thanks for doing an important job! Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet. I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darrenspooner 0 #17 July 8, 2009 I don't even know what an S & TA is, but presume you are a safety officer or chief instructor, or someone who others will turn to if there's a problem. Approach the job in a parental frame of mind. Sometimes its tough and you have to be hard and mean. But at the end of the day they will respect it...unless they have a personality disorder. Unfortunately, this sport attracts them. No one likes weakness and invertebrate management. Everyone (notwithstanding personality disordered people) respects and listens to boundaries, discipline, strength and effective management. I may be an absolute novice skydiver, but I do know what I am talking about when it comes to people> be hard, stick to your rules, and most people will respect you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #18 July 12, 2009 I guess one of the important things is to praise in public, criticize in private. If you can approach people with your safety concerns privately and quietly, most are responsive. Sounds like Dave and the others are pretty good at this. I've seen the "loud yelling across the DZ" thing. It usually ends up in a pissed off jumper leaving, without learning anything. Not the way to do it, unless the person has a real rebellious streak that can't be quelled any other way. That kind of person I don't mind seeing leave. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #19 July 12, 2009 Quote Everyone (notwithstanding personality disordered people) respects and listens to boundaries, discipline, strength and effective management. Haven't been around a lotta skydivers have ya?! The sport takes a lot of motivation, self-reliance, confidence and yes, even ego to excel in...ever heard of herdin' CATS?! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
