Vigil problems????

[jumpkid 0]

Has anyone had a problem with a Vigil? Does it work better with any certain rigs? I have a mirage??
Drop the science on me!!!

[PhreeZone 14]

Please do a search, the features, benifits and draw backs for the Vigil have been posted many times.

If you are looking at doing a lot of jumps from pressurised aircraft make sure to contact Vigil to get the most current information on their units to see if they will fire in the plane or not like some did at the 400 ways and at WFFC last year on the jet loads. I thought something was in the works to address this situation.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[jumpkid 0]

Why did you just step in and not let anyone reponde to my thread???? I am Looking for people who have problems with Mirage and Vigil..... Who are in the skydiving community....Not an advertisement!!!!!
I have replace a cutter or two from Vigil and I was wondering if I was the only one. Im asking a question to who ever is out there that wants to learn of a problem, that I have had, and was wondering if it is happening in other rigs.
Im sorry if I being am rude but I was wondering from people who have hade this problem.
thankyou
Respect

[dragon2 0]

Eh? Phree just answered your question didn't he?

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[USPA 0]

You are kinda rude and while someone posts a friendly reminder, you totally ignore netiquete.

The forum has a search forum, which you van use. Reactions and questions from users in the same community you're asking now. If you can't find enough info there (like a specific question as: how often did you replace your cutter?), maybe a new thread is in order. But you can only find out after a good search.

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[IanHarrop 37]

Quote

Im sorry if I being am rude but I was wondering from people who have hade this problem.

And the quickest way to get your answer is to do a search. This is a common question.

Sorry you don't like the answer. Here, I'll do the search for you...

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=vigil+mirage&search_type=AND&search_fields=sb&search_time=&search_user_username=&sb=post_time&mh=25

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[jumpkid 0]

I am really happy that I asked a question about a safety concern in this forum. If you are not going to give an answer to the question presented, then dont post.
I was asking if anyone has ad this problem because it has happened to myself 2 times. I will not sit back and search hundreds of post to find something that is sort of what Im looking for.
I will say it out right, I dont think that people should put a Vigil aad in a small mirage container. The new cutter placement that Mirage has updated, degrades the plastic insert inside the cutter. Thus fraying the reserve closing loop, and possibly inducing a premature deployment of the reserve.
Please respond if you have any knowledge on THIS subject, not something in the past.
Thanks for looking at this thread.

[billvon 2,380]

> Has anyone had a problem with a Vigil? Does it work better with
>any certain rigs? I have a mirage??

The Vigil is a somewhat new AAD. It has had a few problems, namely:

-Firing in aircraft that are transiently pressurized. This has happened in C-130's and DC-9's. Per Jo, the Vigil 2 will be less sensitive to this, and the revision after that will have it fixed. Note that Vigil does not really consider this a problem, since they believe their AAD is doing what it was designed to do.

-Abrasion of closing loop due to sharp edges on plastic sleeve inside cutter. This has been addressed by Vigil, but some riggers have still seen problems.

-Failure to fire due to cutter problems. AFAIK these cutters have all been recalled and replaced.

For the most part these are the sort of problems you'd expect as "growing pains" for any new AAD. Personally, I wouldn't use one because I often jump from pressurizable planes, and thus I prefer a Cypres 2 which does not fire under those conditions.

If it is approved for usage with a rig, then at least you know that it is compatible mechanically with the rig. Call the rig manufacturer and ask them for the latest info on them. Some container manufacturers do not allow the use of the Vigil in their rigs.

[riggerrob 558]

I am not sure what the fuss is all about vis-a-vis cracked plastic in Vigil cutters.
Last year I installed 50+ Vigils in our student rigs. This spring I am repacking all of our student rigs - plus a few more up-jumper rigs - all containing Vigils - and I have yet to find a cracked cutter.

I suspect that most of the cracked cutters are caused by riggers applying "more muscle that skill" via positive leverage devices.
Since CSPA frowned upon PLD - since long before I became a rigger - I never learned how to use them. Instead, I use an old B-12 Snap on a molar strap that I wrap diagonally across my chest. This hangs the B-12 Snap in the middle of my chest, a great place to tie on a pull-up cord while closing reserves.

I apologize if my response comes across as arrogant, but I have not seen the (cracked cutter) problem first hand.

[pchapman 261]

As a single data point, showing how easily cutter damage can occur:

I came across a cracked Vigil cutter insert in February 2007, on a rig which had the Vigil in it for just one pack job. It was a Vector II, on which one doesn't expect problems as much as on a Mirage, due to the cutter location. The rig was also not an extremely small one (as it held a Raven 1 reserve). However, I did note that it was quite a tight pack job when it came to closing the rig. It had been packed by a well known, quite experienced rigger in my region.

The cracking and chipping of the cutter insert was minor and on the outside of the barrel only, so AAD/Vigil OK'd packing the rig up again, a decision echoed by the information in their bulletin #3 that coincidentally appeared a day or two later.

I wasn't impressed. We may just have to wait one more pack job until the barrel is sufficiently cracked to endanger the closing loop, and get Vigil to send a replacement cutter.

It still mystifies my how anyone could have designed the cutter that way and not have a rigger realize within seconds that the insert was going to get crushed given current skydiver expectations and rigging techniques.

[mark 102]

Quote

I don't think that people should put a Vigil AAD in a small Mirage container. The new cutter placement ... degrades the plastic insert inside the cutter, thus fraying the reserve closing loop, and possibly inducing a premature deployment of the reserve.

Please respond if you have any knowledge on THIS subject, not something in the past.

I own a Mirage G3/PR-143/Vigil and a Mirage G3/PR-126/Vigil. Both rigs now have concave-top reserve pilot chutes, mostly because I was concerned about side-flap deformation after I moved the cutters.

I have not had any problem with the plastic inserts cracking.

I could see where a motivated brute-force-and-ignorance rigger might create a problem, though.

Mark

[riggerrob 558]

Part of the problem is that Vigil changed - plastic insert - manufacturing methods.
The first batch of plastic inserts were great: solid, clear, smooth, etc..
However, the second batch had bubbles, grooves and other minor defects and are easy to crack.
Why Vigil discarded their first manufacturing method is a mystery to me?????

[pchapman 261]

Quote

The first batch of plastic inserts were great: solid, clear, smooth, etc..
However, the second batch had bubbles, grooves and other minor defects and are easy to crack.

Interesting.
And the bubbles etc, make it much more difficult to determine what is an actual crack -- everything looks fractured.

[Sonicfreefly 0]

Damage plastic on cutter cause the closing loop to be cut on Mirage G4 MZ with a PD113 in it. During the repack, rigger got a pilot chute in the face.
Vigil sent out a new style cutter and had it in my hand in less than a week.