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coreyangel

Safety Day?

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As the summer season starts to wind down, it is a good time to reflect on what we have seen and what might be good topics for next year's safety day.

I'm looking to write an article on this subject and I would like to hear form as many people in the sport, what have you seen this year that could possibly need training on next safety day. I will not identify any person or drop zone in my article and I plan on deleting this thread prior to publication to help prevent someone being identified. Of course, feel free to PM me if you want.

Some basic guidelines to remember:

1) I want to hear from everyone! New people, let me know what you think. I'm not a mind reader and your opinions matter too.

2) Old people, please don't attack anyone for their opinion or suggestion. We need free and open communication if we want our sport to be safer.

3) Finally, for all people: Please don't attack or use this as a forum to grind an ax. There are other forums for that. I understand that many times, safety violations are not nice and pretty, please just don't point a finger at any particular individual or drop zone.

I thank you all in advance.
Learn from others' mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all yourself.
POPS 10672

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coreyangel

...I plan on deleting this thread ...

you need to have serious shit in the thread to get it deleted. Good luck with that... Or get Gregpso involvd :D:D

Safety : it is for everyone. Don't overestimate yourself. Don't underestimate yourself too much either. Don't do too much stupid stuff. Know where you are. Know what you are doing. Know where you go. Know the others. Get extra training. Learn about your gear. Avoid jumping Under influence.
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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I've recommended the idea of jumpers each doing a realistic self-evaluation.

It's always easy to hear about someone else's problem and laugh at some other guy for being a dumbass, but it takes more thought to examine one's own actions.

Not just about cases where something ended up going wrong, but anything that was a close call or nearly a problem. Sometimes those things stick with you ("Luckily it worked out; I won't do THAT again!") but in other cases there's no bad result and pretty soon you forget that you did something dumb or at least not as good as you might have.

Then figure out what the chain of events and circumstances were that led to the issue, without minimizing one's own role.

So one might think for example, "I had a safe season other than the one time I was trying to show off with that impromptu little swoop and sprained my ankle. .... But, hmm, thinking about it some more there were a couple other times I rushed the swoop setup and tried to make it work. And there were a couple bad PC tosses in a wingsuit -- I have to focus on cleaner throws. And I've got to watch out for XXXX, I've gotten sloppy with that. And really, I'm not all that current for YYYY -- there were a couple jumps I might better have taken myself off and done a smaller jump for practice instead."

This idea fits with the concept that for X number of fatalities there might be 10X accidents, and 100X incidents or close calls -- or whatever the multiplier number might be. Look for the little things to avoid the bigger things happening some day.

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coreyangel

... I'm looking to write an article on this subject and I would like to hear form as many people in the sport, what have you seen this year that could possibly need training on next safety day ...



Corey, you might get some ideas from here:
http://www.skydivestlouisarea.com/USPACentralRegion/SpecificTopics.htm

It is called "Instructional Rating Seminar Topics", but some of the respondents had items that could be Safety Day related.

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I like your suggestion. And you are right about the multipliers, behind every accident there are many "almost accidents."

I have seen various forms of self-evaluation questionnaires over the years. If any one has any they would like to email me, may be we can find the commonality in all and create one that has reliable predictability.

My email is:
coreymiller.work@sbcglobal.net
Learn from others' mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all yourself.
POPS 10672

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coreyangel

...I plan on deleting this thread prior to publication to help prevent someone being identified...



How do you plan on doing that?
You can't even edit posts after a certain time (6 or 8 hours IIRC).

There's some very good reasons for that.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4714989;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

But to your request for ideas:

When to sit down.

Whether for weather conditions, personal issues (either physical health like sinus issues, or personal problems that are serious enough to be a dangerous distraction), DZ safety issues, other jumper issues, whatever.
There are lots of good reasons to sit out a jump or leave a DZ.
A lot of folks may not want to do that.

Including newer jumpers.

It seems like too many newly A licensed jumpers feel like they aren't good enough to jump with other people. And sometimes it seems like experienced folk are "too good" to jump with the new people.
If it wasn't for experienced jumpers being willing to 'put up with my newbieness" when I began, I wouldn't be where I am today.

I choose to "pay that forward" by being willing to jump with the new folks. I keep it simple, make sure they are on jumps and in slots appropriate to their skill, and I make sure to tell them "You'd better not screw this up, that's my job." :P

They are a lot of fun to jump with. Their enthusiasm and joy make up (mostly) for their lack of skill. They make me fly that much harder and better to make up for their shortcomings.
Besides, I want people to jump with. Solos are nowhere near as much fun.
So I make sure to include anyone who can safely jump.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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quote "coreyangel"]...I plan on deleting this thread prior to publication to help prevent someone being identified...

wolfriverjoe

[How do you plan on doing that?



I plan on pushing the button that says, "Delete" (see attachment). I may be wrong, but I didn't think it would be rocket science.
Learn from others' mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all yourself.
POPS 10672

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coreyangel

***...I plan on deleting this thread prior to publication to help prevent someone being identified...



wolfriverjoe

[How do you plan on doing that?



I plan on pushing the button that says, "Delete" (see attachment). I may be wrong, but I didn't think it would be rocket science.

That button will go away.

Look at any post you made in the past. You lose the ability to edit or delete after a fairly short time.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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I agree with you about new jumpers feeling "not good enough" and experienced jumpers feeling "too good". I did a lot of solo jumps when I was new in part because I didn't think I was good enough to jump with others. I thought I was the only one that felt that way, thank you for your input.
Learn from others' mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all yourself.
POPS 10672

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Read the link. This part

"Question arose regarding A license holders that obtained them some time ago, they need to be made aware of the change to the USPA policy that change on Jan. 1"

Surely current (or lapsed) A LICENSE holders (as opposed to in-training CARD holders) are grandfathered in regarding further requirements.

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ajs339

Read the link. This part

"Question arose regarding A license holders that obtained them some time ago, they need to be made aware of the change to the USPA policy that change on Jan. 1"

Surely current (or lapsed) A LICENSE holders (as opposed to in-training CARD holders) are grandfathered in regarding further requirements.



Good catch. I only briefly proofread the items I was given. They simply stated it incorrectly.

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ajs339

Not current year but instructive and eff'n funny...read "the Dumbest thing you did skydiving" thread. There's another similar thread linked to or from this one but can't find it now. Anyone?



http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=1130378;page=1;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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I am constantly seeing people that are doing stuff that is more fun than the stuff that I am doing. I want to do the high end, above average fun stuff.

But the truth if the matter is that there is and must be a lot of Average people and Average jumpers doing Average stuff.

If I can keep the need to be SuperDan in check, then I feel like my safety is much improved. I am not sure how to weave that into Safety Day. People do need to be reminded that pushing up to the ragged edge normally increases risk. How bad do I need to do that...really?
Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

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You make a good point, Dthames. We talk about beginners and we talk about experienced jumpers, but we really don't say much about the "average" jumper. That area is usually treated like it is just the area that new jumpers fall into while learning to be experienced jumpers i.e. free flyers, big way members). We don't emphasize much on the jumper that is content to fly solo or small groups.

You brought up a great topic.
Learn from others' mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all yourself.
POPS 10672

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coreyangel

You make a good point, Dthames. We talk about beginners and we talk about experienced jumpers, but we really don't say much about the "average" jumper. That area is usually treated like it is just the area that new jumpers fall into while learning to be experienced jumpers i.e. free flyers, big way members). We don't emphasize much on the jumper that is content to fly solo or small groups.

You brought up a great topic.



What you said is right but what I was thinking was you look at the bell curve and there are a few with super skills, a few that suck so bad it isn't funny, and a LOT of people in the middle. We don't want to think of ourselves as average......I am a bit better or on the top end of the less than mad skills area. But in fact for every 1 mad skills person there is a lot of others that do fine but can't jump up there and be supermen. Learning to accept that fact that it might take me 30 tries to get the skill that Bob has after 6 tries is a fact of life. Many of us just have to work a bit longer or a bit harder than we would like, to reach a specific goal. I don't like seeing those guys with less experience jump out there ahead of me. I can do that too, right? (wrong)

Learning that is okay to be a slower learner and not pushing too hard is something that I feel can improve safety.
Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

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dthames

***You make a good point, Dthames. We talk about beginners and we talk about experienced jumpers, but we really don't say much about the "average" jumper. That area is usually treated like it is just the area that new jumpers fall into while learning to be experienced jumpers i.e. free flyers, big way members). We don't emphasize much on the jumper that is content to fly solo or small groups.

You brought up a great topic.



Learning that is okay to be a slower learner and not pushing too hard is something that I feel can improve safety.

Thank you for your clarification. Based on a study done in 1972, it is estimated that our sport is 2:1 type A personalities and yes, I think that causes us to push the envelope. Would it be safe to say that we need to recognize our personal learning curve and accept the fact that we might not learn as fast as others. Additionally, experienced sky divers need to understand that others are still learning and not to encourage them to exceed their personal learning curves.
Learn from others' mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all yourself.
POPS 10672

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A national occupational safety and health culture is one in which the right to a safe and healthy working environment is respected at all levels, where governments, employers and workers actively participate in securing a safe and healthy working environment through a system of defined rights, responsibilities and duties, and where the highest priority is accorded to the principle of prevention.

This year we have created a SafeDay website with new and useful information including the role of each stakeholder, more detailed information on key aspects and trends on OSH, as well as a campaign kit which includes a PPT presentation with notes, the poster and the brochure.
Oil Gas Safety Council values the contribution Safety Professionals make to achieve the vision of accident free and safer workplace.
http://ogsc.org/

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Really? A spam from the oil and gas industry? But ok, since safety is important to everyone, I'll bite....

Sheen, what input of value do you have that will make the sport of skydiving safer? I would also like to see your SafeDay website. Although I don't think it will have information that is directly relevant, it could very well spark an ember that could lead to an idea to improve the safety of our sport.

Again, although I think this was a spam posting, I do believe in making our sport safer and would love to hear from you.

Corey
Learn from others' mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all yourself.
POPS 10672

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