masterrigger1 2 #1 March 9, 2007 Well all of the focus has been on Sun Path rigs, but has anyone else thought about this. Since the FAA has ruled that that removing an RSL is an alteration, if someone were to burn in with a Vector II, III, Infinity, etc. (pick one). Everyone is focused on just the Javelin, but it applies to ANY rig that has had a RSL removed and no paperwork to back it up. Think about it, they are grounded as well! At least until they are replaced or have paperwork! BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #2 March 9, 2007 I thought it was only an alteration due to the way that the paper work was filed. If the manufactor had included instructions in the manual and had certified it with out the RSL then it would not be an issue. With the new V3's and their RSL you are looking at having to order all new parts anyways so most those people just disconnect them instead of removing them.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 232 #3 March 9, 2007 By the way, is there any concerted effort to keep this whole thing from sliding towards the abysmally stupid?"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sid 1 #4 March 9, 2007 Just to put this out there for clarification. If you have a Racer the rig comes as standard WITHOUT a RSL. The RSL is an option. Also, because of the design of the 2 riser rsl, if you ordered a rig equipped with the RSL option, it can be installed and uninstalled by the rig owner without impacting the reserve pack job's integrity.Pete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #5 March 9, 2007 I'm pretty sure that it all comes down to the data package that they submited to the MIDO during their original aplication. No one out side Sunpath has been privy to the comunications that have passed back and forth between them and the FAA. They have not seen fit to share the details of any of it. If it was truly and clearly in stone then I can not understand how they could have ever waffled back and forth all this time as they have. I tend to think that this has all been driven by the manufactorer rather then by the FAA. I doubt any other manufatorer would chose to open this can of worms. I honestly have trouble understanding why Sunpath has chosen to turn this into as big of an issue as they have. I'll have to leave it to some one else to make that call to them. I've got enough hit men on my trail as it is. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,047 #6 March 9, 2007 Hi Lee, QuoteI'm pretty sure that it all comes down to the data package that they submited to the MIDO during their original aplication. There's the answer. Although the specifications are submitted to the ACO (Aircraft Certification Office) in the area that the Mfr is located and which is governed by the subject office. I am VERY sure that there are rigs out there that have the RSL as an option and NO paperwork was ever submitted regarding it. TSO C23b makes no reference to a RSL. Just my thoughts based upon my experience, Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene03 0 #7 March 9, 2007 Oh damn, please don't start another shitstorm.“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene03 0 #8 March 9, 2007 "I honestly have trouble understanding why Sunpath has chosen to turn this into as big of an issue as they have". Do you think all the flak created on this forum had anything to do with it?“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #9 March 10, 2007 QuoteI've got enough hit men on my trail as it is. If you see a red dot, duck fast! you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #10 March 13, 2007 If you try to close a Student Vector or Sigma - without an RSL - lots of luck! Evil laughter!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 3 #11 March 14, 2007 I thought that was what Temp Pins were for I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #12 March 14, 2007 QuoteIf you try to close a Student Vector or Sigma - without an RSL - lots of luck! Evil laughter!!!!! Ah... but my Vector II... mfg'ed with an RSL. True the lanyard must be there to finish packing it... BUT, is it legal for me to jump it with main risers that do not have the RSL attach ring? (without Master Rigger intervention) I understand from Sunpath that this situation would not be legal on a Javelin. And by their statement that this holds true for ALL mfg's rigs TSO'ed with RSLs... Will have to get Booth to make a statement here. BTW - what I really would like to see from the mfgs is a strong statement written in plain English (and all other appropriate languages) that informs people NOT to stow their RSL snap shackle on their 3-rings when not in use. YES I'VE SEEN IT, and more than once! This gets back to the other thread that questions the average "experienced" jumper's lack of knowledge when it comes to their gear. JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 102 #13 March 14, 2007 Quote[W]hat I really would like to see from the mfgs is a strong statement ... that informs people NOT to stow their RSL snap shackle on their 3-rings when not in use. Do you mean they shouldn't snap the shackle to the 3-ring cable housing? I've always thought that was a good a place as any to secure it. I'm open to counter-argument, and if this is what you mean, I'd like to be persuaded by your reasoning. Or do you mean they shouldn't snap the shackle to the base (harness) ring of the three rings? I agree they shouldn't, but I'll bet you can't make the rings jam just by snapping the shackle to the base ring. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #14 March 14, 2007 QuoteQuote[W]hat I really would like to see from the mfgs is a strong statement ... that informs people NOT to stow their RSL snap shackle on their 3-rings when not in use. Do you mean they shouldn't snap the shackle to the 3-ring cable housing? I've always thought that was a good a place as any to secure it. I'm open to counter-argument, and if this is what you mean, I'd like to be persuaded by your reasoning. Or do you mean they shouldn't snap the shackle to the base (harness) ring of the three rings? I agree they shouldn't, but I'll bet you can't make the rings jam just by snapping the shackle to the base ring. Mark I usually hook it to the cut-away housing (and also would like to hear any opinons against it.) But I have seen them snap it to the rings themselves (base and others)... I suspect that when all hell brakes loose that it can jam. (could be wrong, but would not want to find out. JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #15 March 14, 2007 Quote If you try to close a Student Vector or Sigma - without an RSL - lots of luck! Evil laughter!!!!! That's easy...especially right after they throw the special ripcord away during a cutaway and the rigger installs a standard ripcord during the repack. Of course that would be just until the new ripcord arrives...... Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #16 March 14, 2007 Why bother with anything other than a temp pin. Neither system can be legally used for it's intended purpose without the RSL.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #17 March 15, 2007 Quote Why bother with anything other than a temp pin. Neither system can be legally used for it's intended purpose without the RSL. Exactly!!! That's why I started this thread. BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #18 March 15, 2007 However any other system that uses a standard RSL set up with pin on the ripcord instead of rsl can be.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #19 March 15, 2007 Quote However any other system that uses a standard RSL set up with pin on the ripcord instead of rsl can be. I do not know how that logic works. If removing a rsl of of one rig is an alteration, then removing of of another rig would be also. That is as long as it came with one.... Footnote: Just got off of the phone with an inspection from my FSDO. They are going to allow the "data" from the manufacturer to be sufficent paperwork for an alteration in this case. So the authorization is valid! Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
