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FreeflyIndian

Body poition for landing

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I've seen different variations of how people land, specifcally talking about the postion of legs. Some people keep both feet together and behind them, others both feet together and in front, some have 1 leg in front of the other (I tried this on a couple occasions but found that that would initiate a slight harness turn resulting in me having to compensate with the opposite toggle when flaring). The way I currently fly and land is by "sitting" in the harness i.e. knee's up and feet in front of me. My question is what do you think is the best position and why?

Stay safe!

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I've seen different variations of how people land, specifcally talking about the postion of legs. Some people keep both feet together and behind them, others both feet together and in front, some have 1 leg in front of the other (I tried this on a couple occasions but found that that would initiate a slight harness turn resulting in me having to compensate with the opposite toggle when flaring). The way I currently fly and land is by "sitting" in the harness i.e. knee's up and feet in front of me. My question is what do you think is the best position and why?

Stay safe!



Depends on the parachute and arrival angle.

Coming in vertically you want your feet together in case the ground is uneven or you're a little fast and want to PLF.

With a small parachute you want to be lower than you'd need to be for standing height so you're at walking altitude when you make a big pitch change at the end to kill your forward speed to land slower than you would if you flew the canopy until it lacked the lift to support you. I like to come in daffy with one toe dragging because it feels good, with one foot in front where it's easy to start walking (or faster with bad energy management). Where first point of contact matters I don't drag a toe.

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Thanks for the input and the pics Drew

Daffy - dont you find that initiates a harness turn?

Two feet together - here I wonder if its to have your feet in front of you, or behind you. My thoughts are now that having your feet behind you is better from the perspective if shit goes wrong and for whatever reason you find yourself hitting the earth earlier/harder then planned - then having your feet behind you would mean that your feet would hit, and with your forward movement, knees, etc would follow - plf. Thoughts?

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then having your feet behind you would mean that your feet would hit, and with your forward movement, knees, etc would follow - plf. Thoughts?



Speaking from experience, though not at high speed like a busted swoop, I can tell you that the above results in a FKF landing - feet / knees / face.

With your feet behind you, you have no opportunity to absorb any of the energy with your strongest muscles - your legs.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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Speaking from experience, though not at high speed like a busted swoop, I can tell you that the above results in a FKF landing - feet / knees / face.

With your feet behind you, you have no opportunity to absorb any of the energy with your strongest muscles - your legs.



Fair enough, but having your feet in front, and your body "driving in" from behind could result in your legs taking too much impact - injury perhaps?

Now feet behind, could be feet knees face, or feet knees side (assuming your turn your body when impact)

I've also seen and heard of swoops gone wrong (this thread isn't about high performance landing but think this example illustrates a good point), where the pilot was a fraction too low, feet behind, fee impacted, rest of body followed, somersault through risers, no real injury. Now had he had his feet in front, I reckon much worse outcome...

Thanks for the input. I'm just trying to thrash out a lot of ideas currently in my head, so please dont think my mind is made up

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Being in the best position to fly your canopy is probably more important than adopting the best position to survive the impact that results from not being able to fly your canopy. I reckon a good position should look a bit like the attached. Sitting in the harness with your feet apart and knees bent, so you can initiate harness turns easily, and ready to run out the landing, slide or PLF if needed. Arms up on rear riser ready to correct and flare at the right moment.

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Speaking from experience, though not at high speed like a busted swoop, I can tell you that the above results in a FKF landing - feet / knees / face.

With your feet behind you, you have no opportunity to absorb any of the energy with your strongest muscles - your legs.



Fair enough, but having your feet in front, and your body "driving in" from behind could result in your legs taking too much impact - injury perhaps?

Now feet behind, could be feet knees face, or feet knees side (assuming your turn your body when impact)

I've also seen and heard of swoops gone wrong (this thread isn't about high performance landing but think this example illustrates a good point), where the pilot was a fraction too low, feet behind, fee impacted, rest of body followed, somersault through risers, no real injury. Now had he had his feet in front, I reckon much worse outcome...

Thanks for the input. I'm just trying to thrash out a lot of ideas currently in my head, so please dont think my mind is made up


There was a case some time back at my drop zone where I guy did just this but had injuries Broke his neck and is in a wheel chair for the rest of his life. He cam in exactly as you described but when his face hit his body kept going right over top of him and snapped his neck. It is always best to land feet first. Think about it. If its such a high speed impact that it is going to break your legs think about the damage that will be done to the other parts of your body if your legs don't absorb the impact! Its simple mechanics. Think about it like this. If you are going to jump off the roof of your house how are you going to land? With your feet back so your body impacts the ground then your face and hope you don't brake your neck.....or one foot forward and one back so you can't absorb the impact and rip your groin or brake your back leg or your back......extend your legs out so you land on your butt so you don't break your legs or get a knee in the face but your crush your spine instead......or you land with your feet and knees together and feet first with a slight turn to one side so that your legs absorb the initial impact and the remaining energy is transfered to a forward motion that you simply roll out resulting in no injuries?

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Now there's some constructive input :)
Though, I reckon you could easily keep your feet together without it affecting harness input from your upper legs, sure when you do put input with one side your foot is bound to move up/down relative to the other. So if you suddenly find yourself touching down harder, earlier than expected (e.g. turbulence), keeping your feet together is a lot better than having them apart, and of course if you choose to run of your landing at the end you could always do this, or plf, of slide in feet together

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The effects of real turbulence cannot be neglected but in my limited experience, the very day I completed my first canopy control course, my succeptibilty to "turbulence" reduced by at least 80%. Having your feet together (especially crossed) was said to be a contributory factor to this because it can promote an asymetrical body position that leads to a sort of pendulum action on final where people make a minor heading correction, then the canopy swings back and they need to correct again, then it swings back and they correct and swing and correct and swing and finally they land complaining about how "the turbulence is really bad today". The better option is to get your last turn done high enough so that you can have 5seconds of no input at all to let the canopy settle down and fly before you need to flare. Any minor corrections can be done with harness input and you can't do with your legs stuck together. Having said that, if you are gonna biff in big style, feet tegether for a nice PLF might not be a bad option.

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Look pal, I don't know what you're driving at here, but by the way you have a response to every answer presented, you're obviously driving at something.

For starters, any argument you have about 'harness turns' from simply having one leg or another forward is bullshit. Unless you have a WL up over 3.0 to 1, then moving your legs back and forth will not harness turn your canopy. Ever.

Harness turns are accomplished by shifting your entire body weight from side to side, with the effects becoming more and more pronounced at higher WLs.

If are experiencing directional problems on final, either you or your canopy are defective.

Here's the way it works - sit square in your harness, with your hips facing the direction of travel. Keep your knees slightly bent, and your feet shoulder width apart. When contact with the ground is imminent, make the call to either bring your feet together and perform a PLF as per the instruction in the first jump course, or place one foot out in front of you and begin to walk or run based on your forward speed.

If you are not sure which foot to lead with, do this - stand with your feet next to each other, and have a friend stand behind you and push you forward enough that you need to step forward to prevent yourself from falling. The foot that you extend forward is the foot you should lead with when landing. It varies from person to person, but the one you use to catch yourself during the test is the correct foot.

If you want to do it differently, have at it. Just don't go trying to convince others to adopt your flawed methods, as they may end up injured (like you).

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Look pal, I don't know what you're driving at here, but by the way you have a response to every answer presented, you're obviously driving at something.



I thought it was pretty obvious, driving at getting more info. You'd rather I not ask questions? Real smart

Harness turns and directional problems? Not really having those issues as I do fly square. However, even with my low WL, if I do drop a leg and fly assymetrical, the canopy turns, not huge, but it does.

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Here's the way it works ... and your feet shoulder width apart...

see you say this, other's say feet together. And you wonder why I ask questions

[reply ] If you are not sure which foot to lead with, do this...

Actually some new useful advice from you with this. See what happens when you ask questions

As to convincing others, if ever I say "this is how it should be..." feel free to accuse me of trying to convince others to follow me, but if I'm asking questions, how the hell does it come across as convincing others.

Being a forum, I knew I'd get some bullshit like this. Oh well, shot for the useful bits of your reply

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Here's the way it works ... and your feet shoulder width apart...



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see you say this, other's say feet together. And you wonder why I ask questions



Did you just choose to ignore all that Dave wrote?

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Here's the way it works - sit square in your harness, with your hips facing the direction of travel. Keep your knees slightly bent, and your feet shoulder width apart. When contact with the ground is imminent, make the call to either bring your feet together and perform a PLF as per the instruction in the first jump course, or place one foot out in front of you and begin to walk or run based on your forward speed.

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I actually teach students to have their default position be feet and knees together, and then take a step if the landing is going well and they can stand up. I'm a coach, so I usually work with students when they have about 10-15 jumps. I see a lot of students coming in on final with their feet apart, and they get so "busy" during the landing that they forget to put their feet back together again, even when a PLF is imminent. I think developing the routine of putting your feet and knees together once on final will serve students better in the short run. On turbulent days I still put my feet and knees together once on final so I can devote all my attention to keeping the canopy flying.

And all this talk about feet in front vs. feet behind, just put them below you. You can't PLF properly with your feet either in front or behind you, but you can walk/run out the landing just fine with them below you.

- Dan G

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OK, before coming here I did seek advice elsewhere. Yes, as Dave so brilliantly pointed out I did injure myself - hence the quest for more knowledge - I dont intend repeating shit. The post here was to see what everyone else thought regarding body posItion in the harness. I do enjoy arguing/questioning points right or wrong - it only leads to more comments/questions/info being shared. Oh, and I do know of pilots (much more experienced than I am) who also suffered similar injuries when things suddenly went wrong on the last stage of the landing - so it does lead me to believe that this is a relevant topic - my opinion anyway.

As to the feet together vs apart thing. I think I'm with DanG on feet together on finals (possibly earlier), then if there's a possibility to run/walk it off make that decision at the end. IMHO that makes more sense - less to think about on those last few moments when the ground is close should something go not according to plan

Stay safe!

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Thank You! I have almost 600 jumps and when I turn to final I STILL put my feet and knees together. B|

For the record - I have never been injured enough to require a trip to the hospital and I have busted my ass a lot. (Knock on wood / head. :P )



"Don't! Get! Eliminated!"

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I actually teach students to have their default position be feet and knees together, and then take a step if the landing is going well and they can stand up. I'm a coach, so I usually work with students when they have about 10-15 jumps. I see a lot of students coming in on final with their feet apart, and they get so "busy" during the landing that they forget to put their feet back together again, even when a PLF is imminent.



when I took the AFF we HAD to perform a PLF on each landing. Simple and stupid: you learn by doing and you will not hurt yourself doing a PLF when you could have walked; but the contrary isn't so true.

The way we learned it was feet slighty in front and HEELS hit the ground first (if the top of your toes hit first, good luck...). This starts the PLFs nicely.

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The way we learned it was feet slighty in front and HEELS hit the ground first (if the top of your toes hit first, good luck...). This starts the PLFs nicely.



The first point of contact for a PLF should be the balls of your feet, not your heels. It's very easy to injure your heel plus if you start the PLF from your heels you are already leaning back, which is opposite of the direction the PLF will take. You also can't rotate well on your heels.

The 5 points of contact for a properly executed PLF are (in order)
1. Balls of feet
(rotate left or right to expose calf)
2. Calf
3. Upper leg
4. Butt
5. Side of back

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