Argus ADD Lets Talk Quality!!!

[Dangerousmind86 0]

Looking into buying an Argus Brand AAD and would like some comments. I know an ADD is really the best way to go for the sport so i figure I should get one and the argus as self replacable batteries? What say you all?

ANDY

[jbanning 0]

I am not an expert but you cant go wrong with a cypres2.

No battery to replace, only serviced every 4 years. It is the ADD with the most precedence

[BIGUN 1,042]

Argus Reviews:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/gear/review.cgi?ID=558

Cypres Reviews (top left corner):

http://www.dropzone.com/gear/Detailed/138.html

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[councilman24 36]

Argus is the last AAD I'd buy. Hmmm, second to last but you've probably never heard of the last.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Dangerousmind86 0]

I guess I asked for a comment and I got one. But would you mind offering why you think so instead of just stating? A master rigger right? show me why wouldn't you?

ANDY

[jbanning 0]

The owner of my DZ is a master rigger and I brought this question up to him and he purchased the cypres2 for me, he said it would be the smartest investment.

[brettski74 0]

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Looking into buying an Argus Brand AAD and would like some comments. I know an ADD is really the best way to go for the sport so i figure I should get one and the argus as self replacable batteries? What say you all?

Do you want an Automatic Activation Device, or Attention Deficit Disorder? It's AAD - two As and one D. You'll sound cooler if you get the terminology right.
Now, I'm not a rigger, however, as far as the Argus goes, I don't think it's for you. You're a very new jumper. The Argus is not yet approved for use by all of the major rig manufacturers. Rigging Innovations, for example specifically states on their website that they do not authorise use of an Argus in their rigs, so if you were to do so, you would probably invalidate the rig's TSO. I'm not sure what the current status of Argus is in UPT or Sunpath rigs, but I do seem to recall a comment from a few months ago that the Argus is known to fit correctly into the AAD pouch in a Vector, but no actual drop testing has been conducted, so it's probably not authorised for use by UPT, yet, either - but maybe someone who knows more or can find the information can correct me.

Even still, the Argus is the newest AAD on the market and you are one of the newest jumpers on the market. Safe practices would suggest only adding one new thing at a time. Since you're still going to be a new jumper for some time to come, you would probably be better off using something that's more tried and tested like a CYPRES-2, or perhaps a Vigil.

[billvon 2,379]

>I know an ADD is really the best way to go for the sport so i figure I
>should get one and the argus as self replacable batteries? What say you all?

Get a cypres. If you really have 13 jumps (or around that number) you need something that works and doesn't screw up. The Argus may well end up being a good AAD, but it is still very early in its development phase, and they are likely still finding out what the glitches are.

Every AAD goes through a learning period where the manufacturers get their suppliers, processes, calibration, installation guide etc in order. Airtec went through it, Vigil is going through it - Argus is just starting to go through it. At this point I'd go with the one that has been through the wringer already.

[gjhdiver 0]

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Looking into buying an Argus Brand AAD and would like some comments. I know an ADD is really the best way to go for the sport so i figure I should get one and the argus as self replacable batteries? What say you all?

I've got two of them. They seem to perform just fine. Four modes, very inexpensive servicing, everything field replaceable, and very well made. It also logs my jumps and freefall time. Batteries are a whopping $6-10.

You'll hear a lot of nonsense talked about anything that isn't a Cypres, mainly from people that came into the sport with no other choices than that unit. They say the Argus isn't "proved" whatever that means. By the same standards, it is not "unproved" either. (I have a misfire on a Cypres, so I know that they aren't foolproof either. Nothing is.)

As for the Argus not being allowed in certain containers, unless you want something unusual, they are accepted in every major harness container. Javelin, Wings, Vector etc.

They have a web site at http://www.argus-aad.com You can see all the acceptance documentation from manufacturers there.

All in all, it's a very well made and affordable unit. I probably have close on 1000 jumps with them in my rigs and wouldn't hestitate to reccomend them.

[kkeenan 13]

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They say the Argus isn't "proved" whatever that means.

CYPRES - 10+ years and many saves vs. Argus - 1 year and a couple saves. That's what I think it means.

If you're using any AAD during the first couple of years after introduction, you should consider yourself a test jumper. Test jumper with 8k jumps is way different from test jumper with 13 jumps.

This piece of gear is not the one you want to pick out based on price.

Kevin K.

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[brettski74 0]

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As for the Argus not being allowed in certain containers, unless you want something unusual, they are accepted in every major harness container. Javelin, Wings, Vector etc.

They have a web site at http://www.argus-aad.com You can see all the acceptance documentation from manufacturers there.

This is not entirely true. Rigging Innovations are still saying on their website that the Argus is not approved for use in any of their harness/container systems.

There also seems to be some confusion surrounding Vector containers, also. There used to be a news item on the old Relative Workshop website. It's not on the new UPT website, but there's also nothing rescinding that earlier statement, so I'd check before installing one in a Vector container, if I was you. For reference, the statement from RWS was quoted here.

Maybe someone from UPT can comment?

[Dangerousmind86 0]

You guys came through with this post. I appreciate it very much. Thanks alot and I think I'll do some more research. Alot of people are telling me that I need to buy a proven unit. So I probably will. Yet how old does a manufacuturer need to be to be "proven"?

Thanks again

--Andy--

ANDY

[johnjds 0]

Argus Approvals
Aerodyne
Jumpshack
Mirage Systems
RWS /United Parachute Technologies
Sun Path
Sunrise Rigging
Rigging Innovations

[TrojanHorse 0]

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This is not entirely true. Rigging Innovations are still saying on their website that the Argus is not approved for use in any of their harness/container systems.

The Argus is approved by Rigging Innovations. The RI website just need to be updated.

The statement at the RWS website had to do with the word compatibility in the letter from RWS, making RWS more or less responsible for the correct functioning of the Argus (which is obviously not a responsibility they can take). This is by that message been straightened out.

William
Argus

[sid 1]

That's interesting.... I looked at the pdf (and I'm not suggesting anything here, just observing) but there are so many basic spelling mistakes (including the name of the company) that it looks as though that letter was written by someone who uses English as a second language.

Oh wait! It was signed by Forsythe, that IS his second language!!!!!!

Pete Draper,

Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right?

[trigger 0]

It's your money so buy what you like.
The only reasonable argument i can see for cypres is its been around for sometime,hence well proven.
Isometimes wonder tho i suspect they probably had problems when first released it on to the market.
Question now is how much faith do you put into the R&D of the others players now on the field.

.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Terry,

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Hmmm, second to last but you've probably never heard of the last.

OK, I'll try: MARS

Yes/no?

Jerry

[skybytch 259]

imho, the best bang for the buck in AAD's right now, especially for a first rig, is to buy a used Cypres 1 with 4 or less years left on it.

A few reasons why I think this is the hot tip -

Figure a purchase price of $100 per year left in it's life; you may still have some money left for jumps after buying it.

Find one that's already had the 8 year done and your only maintainence costs will be one battery replacement.

You'll probably either have already quit the sport or be ready for your next rig before it expires. Having an AAD in the rig, even if it only has a year or so left on it, will make it more attractive to potential buyers.

Riggers everywhere are familiar with the Cypres.

They can be a bit hard to find but they are out there. Keep checking the classifieds here, post one letting people know you're looking and call/email around to gear dealers.

[billvon 2,379]

>Yet how old does a manufacuturer need to be to be "proven"?

There's no one answer to that. For example, at this point I'd use a Vigil for 90% of my jumping if the price was right. They have not yet fixed the pressurization problem completely, but they have a handle on it, and per Jo they should have it completely fixed in the Vigil 3. So at that point I'd probably say it was a mature design (at least after the Vigil 3 had been out for a year or so) and I'd be willing to use it for all my jumping, including World Team and DC-9 jumps (both of them can be pressurized.)

The Argus is a little younger than the Vigil, so I think I'd give it another year or so. That's NOT to say that there's anything wrong with it; indeed, it may be as good as a cypres. Having more units in the field will demonstrate its reliability.

[gjhdiver 0]

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Test jumper with 8k jumps is way different from test jumper with 13 jumps.

The unit doesn't care how many jumps I have. I wouldn't have it in my containers if I didn't have faith in it. I was also a test jumper for Cypres I suppose, as I had one of the first units that came out.

There is a nice price point on the Argus, but I suspect that's more to do with loss leading and market penetration than it is construction. I'd imagine that they won't be able to maintaint that price too long. It's a very sturdily built system. Once you actually see one up close a lot of questions about quality and build get answered.

[gjhdiver 0]

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I'd use a Vigil for 90% of my jumping if the price was right. They have not yet fixed the pressurization problem completely,

The Argus is a little younger than the Vigil, so I think I'd give it another year or so.

A little known fact is that Argus had test units carried in pouches by World Team members to gather data and for test. AFAIK, they handled the pressurization issues OK.

[gjhdiver 0]

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The only reasonable argument i can see for cypres is its been around for sometime,hence well proven.
Isometimes wonder tho i suspect they probably had problems when first released it on to the market.

Heh heh. Ask me about my Cypres misfire one day

They all have/had/or will have issues. We just keep finding new and interesting ways to push AADs beyond their design limits. How they respond to those new issues is a good test of the company. Newcomers like Vigil and Argus can take note of a lot of the issues that Cypres had to deal with and incorporate them right from the start in their units.

[dragon2 0]

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I'd use a Vigil for 90% of my jumping if the price was right. They have not yet fixed the pressurization problem completely,

The Argus is a little younger than the Vigil, so I think I'd give it another year or so.

A little known fact is that Argus had test units carried in pouches by World Team members to gather data and for test. AFAIK, they handled the pressurization issues OK.

The reacted the same as the cypres2: something weird/impossible happened so they shut off for the one jump.

I was sure glad I hadn't turned on the vigil in the rig I borrowed for when I had to film from the ramp Otherwise mine would have been the first to fire as they pressurized the plane on the way down the other guy filming was lucky he had a cypres2 because he HAD turned his on.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[klingeme 0]

I just spoke with Bill Booth about this quote and he confirmed that the Argus AAD fits in our Harness Container System. This is as far as we will go in stating that it is compatable with our system.

Mark Klingelhoefer
United Parachute Technologies

From the Relative Workshop website:


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06.23.06

Argus Clarification

On April 12th, Carl Goortz visited Relative Workshop with several Argus AAD mock-ups, a unit was measured, and it was determined that it physically fit in our Vector, Micron, and Sigma rigs. At this point, a Relative Workshop engineer gave Mr. Goorts a letter stating that the Argus was compatible with our rigs. This simply meant that the Argus unit fits in our rigs. We apologize for the use of the word "compatible", because it could be taken to mean that we certify that the Argus actually works in our rigs. Because no working model has yet been made available to us, we have done no performance testing. Therefore, we can make no statement as to how well the Argus will actually perform in our equipment.

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[brettski74 0]

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I just spoke with Bill Booth about this quote and he confirmed that the Argus AAD fits in our Harness Container System. This is as far as we will go in stating that it is compatable with our system.

Cool. I guess I misunderstood the clarification. Nice to have it cleared up for dummies like me.

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