MC-4 Parts

[dpreguy 14]

Opinion: Can't imagine why you would want to use one of these dogs. There was a guy who had, and i'm sure still has two of them. The canopies are big with deep-very deep- cells, and as a result have little forward speed and absolutely will not give any lift upon landing. Not even with a hard flare. He weighed about 190 and hit the ground like a pile driver every time. The canopies are F-111 and feel like wet tissue paper. In addition when I packed his reserves, (wouldn't do it now) the reserve canopies were not placarded. Found the mfg info in an obscure place in the center cell rib, just stamped on. So, as i see it, packing a non placarded rig - well, how do you know if it is TSO'd? It is government issued, but old, and yes, you can say if it is good enough for the military....yadda yadda. Bottom line, is they land by just slowing the jumper down, with no lift at the bottom, because they are so slow. No speed, means no lift. In my opinion, these rigs have historic and nostalgic value, but not much else.In Air Force One, and in the Navy Seals, movies, they were used, and yes they would save your ass, but they are a poor choice to jump intentionally as a sport rig.This is my opinion after watching 30 to 50 landings of this guy. He hit like a ton of bricks each time, unless there were the magical 10 mph winds, and even then got almost no flare power. Just slowed down before impact. Collectors item.

[skybill 18]

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Anyone have an ideal of where to get some parts for the MC4. I recently came across a used MC4 that is missing the main and reserve ripcord, cut away handle/ cables, main and reserve deployment bag.

Thanks,

Ken.

Hi Ken,
If you were here in Eastern NC, I'd send you over to Barnhill Const. Co., they do road building work, I think they have a lot of spare parts for "Dump Trucks" for sale cheap, that's what yer jumpin'
PS, Read and heed "EVERYTHING!!!" that "dpreguy" in the post just above this one says!!!! ...Got that!!! He "TOTALLY" has a handle on the MC-4 and I have observed exactly what he witnessed on every MC-4 flight and landing that I have seen!! I'd rather be jumping my old Stratostar!!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[peek 20]

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The canopies are big with deep-very deep- cells, and as a result have little forward speed and absolutely will not give any lift upon landing. Not even with a hard flare.

I have jumped one a few times and found that, (like a lot of large canopies), you need to takes wraps of the steering lines before landings, then the landing is more acceptable. First time I landed one without wraps, I thundered in too. But I don't know how many jumps the canopy had. It looked to be in good condition.

Of course there are much better big rigs.

[JohnSherman 1]

Parachute Labs/Jump Shack make the ripcords for the MC-4 as they do for most rigs. Currently they only have 7 or 8 hundred in stock maybe they would sell you one of each.
Contact: [email protected]

[LouDiamond 1]

I agree with you on why someone would want to use one of these H/C for a sports rig, unless of course, if it's because of their size/weight, then its not a bad idea. I disagree with you about the canopy comments. What you are describing is attributable to that one canopy. Not all MC-4 canopies fly as you stated in your post. While they are not speed demons, they do have forward speed and they do have the ability to generate lift on the bottom end. There is a reason why it's been the most widely sold and used military parachute system on the planet and is still being bought by some countries. It sounds like the one you observed was behaving like any canopy that is well worn out.

I find your comments about the placards location and it's being stamped on to be non issues, all the info can be found on that placard and the manufacturer can help in translating it if it isn't apparent what info is on it. The stamped on ink placard is far more durable than a sewn on one and it's less prone to fading/wear inside the nose as opposed to the traditional location of the sewn on placard on sports canopies. Again, I see this as a non issue as even the the use of the gear is covered in the FARs when it comes to the TSO and if it's in question, contact the manufacturer.

Again, I don't see a need for people to jump these systems unless of course its due to size/weight issues that sports gear won't support, then these systems are indeed a viable option. It's a big, heavy system built to carry a jumper with full combat equipment with an All Up Weight of 360 lbs and as such is quiet cumbersome compared to a sports H/C. The only sports H/C manufacturer that readily builds rigs that can support people in this size/weight range is Jump Shack and thats a custom built system, which may not fit in some peoples budget and a MC-4 might be their only way to enter into the sport. The upside to all of this is that the MC-4, which is currently in use with the US, is being replaced and as such I would imagine there will be plenty of newer MC-4 systems and component parts available at DRMO and surplus stores in the very near future.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[dpreguy 14]

Wow, a weight of 360 lbs? That's pretty cool. I didn't know that. That's impressive. Maybe it performs better with more weight.

The stamped placard doesn't have weight or speed limits, but I just figured because of military, it was OK for anyone I could imagine. So, I agree with you on that. It is a safe rig for sure.

I saw this guy land for two years and he always hit pretty hard. Sometimnes really hard. Just sort of flew it into the ground. Not that he didn't flare, he did, but it just didn't really do anything when he flared, except slow him down. On a no wind day you could hear him thump the ground, and he flared like a pro. On those rare 10 mph days, it was minimally OK, burt he still had that high descent rate. Maybe being at 5000 feet field elev made the diff. I will agree though, it would save the life of a non experinced jumper, and there it has it's place. And I like the spring loaded main pilot chute setup, as anyone could use it. So, it is a good life saving setup.

[matthewcline 0]

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Wow, a weight of 360 lbs? That's pretty cool. I didn't know that. That's impressive. Maybe it performs better with more weight.

The stamped placard doesn't have weight or speed limits, but I just figured because of military, it was OK for anyone I could imagine. So, I agree with you on that. It is a safe rig for sure.

I saw this guy land for two years and he always hit pretty hard. Sometimnes really hard. Just sort of flew it into the ground. Not that he didn't flare, he did, but it just didn't really do anything when he flared, except slow him down. On a no wind day you could hear him thump the ground, and he flared like a pro. On those rare 10 mph days, it was minimally OK, burt he still had that high descent rate. Maybe being at 5000 feet field elev made the diff. I will agree though, it would save the life of a non experinced jumper, and there it has it's place. And I like the spring loaded main pilot chute setup, as anyone could use it. So, it is a good life saving setup.

Well, if he was flying a well used MC-4 he got from a DRMO type source, he was flying some thing with the same porosity as a set of od green sheer nylons at that point.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Unstable 8]

I think the thing to do would be to put a nice Classic 282 or Parafoil in the container and have a glorified (cheap) accuracy rig. The MC-4 main is a big 5 cell, right?I see these rigs go on ebay for $4,000+, I'm curious as to where you got it for so cheap...

=========Shaun ==========

[SEREJumper 1]

MC-4 is a 7 cell. An the early MT-1X (grey container) had a 5 cell reserve and 7 cell main. $4k is a bit high IMO, $1,200 on the high end, $400-$600 is normal from what I've seen.

We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar

[dpreguy 14]

I don't know where the guy I observed got his canopies, but he jumped both of them (he had two MC-4s-complete rigs) with the same results. Whump!
I think the canopy is awful, and (my opinion again after observing all of those landings), is that a big guy- let's say 225 or higher, would break something if he jumped it regularly. If a big guy -weight or body size- likes the MC-4 harness setup, then at least substitute the main with a modern 9 cell canopy if it fits reasonably well, or slightly modify the main container to get a good fit by installing a Parapack covered foam bed in the pack tray or something. I don't have internet at my loft, but I know PD makes 300 square foot 9 cell Navigators, and I think that there are 3 or 4 other canopy mfg's that also make 300 square foot 9 cells. Doesn't Airborne Systems offer their huge Intruder mains in a civilian version? Maybe some sell even bigger ones. I would not recommend the MC-4 canopy. It just lands hard. Really hard. It is my opinion that the heavier the guy, the harder he will impact the ground. I would doubly cringe to see one of these big guys under that 5 cell reserve - an even harder landing! Once again, this is my opinion.

The argument can be made that newer and better MC-4 mains would be better, and that the guy I saw maybe had old porous ones, but the design of these main canopies is just asking for hard landings. A used, military surplus canopy's cheap initial price isn't so attractive when there is an injury risk.

I didn't know that a big guy couldn't get a harness to fit from the major mfg's- just assumed you could order longer main lift webs , bigger yoke -etc to fit anyone. But, that's not my area and don't know.

[LouDiamond 1]

Again, I have to disagree with you on the canopy, it's not a caddy by any means and there are newer and better Military specific canopies out there but it's no where near as bad as you think it is . I have hundreds of jumps on the MC-4 ranging from just the rig to full combat equipment. A lot of very big guys and weighted down guys jump the MC-4 canopy on a regular basis, most weighting it out right around the 325-350 lb mark and injuries are lower than what is encountered in sport skydiving landing injuries. The main is a 360 Sq Ft 7 cell canopy( the reserve is identical), which is bigger than most tandem canopies being used and very few manufacturers sell a canopy in that size range that isn't classified as a tandem parachute. There are several anvil brothers on DZ.com that jump MC-4s and they can attest to how the canopy flies and lands. Like any used parachute, there is a chance that the one a person may obtain might be close or beyond it's usefulness due to porosity issues and then there is the person flying the canopy as well, there are DZs full of skydivers that cannot land their canopy well despite it being within acceptable tolerances, I see it every day at the DZ, that doesn't mean that I have grounds to say that brand canopy lands hard,especially if its a canopy I haven't jumped before.

Again, unless one has a weight/size issue, I don't see a good reason for someone to use an MC-4/5 system for sport use.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[dpreguy 14]

I concede to your observations. They are more current and better than mine were. You have seen many guys use them, and I have only seen one. Also you have jumped them. So my opinion is probably flawed, as it is dated, and only one skydiver who I ever saw jump one. I can just say I wouldn't jump the two rigs I saw used. They were duds. (Also, I forgot the reserve was an identical canopy, a 7 cell.) It's been probaly 6 or 7 yrs since he quit. Maybe the fact that you are closer to sea level or maybe my guy purchased old canopies that were like cheesecloth. I think I better stick to areas I am better at. One observed subject is probably not valid. At this point I'd probably say you are right and I was wrong.

Conclusion: I am only an expert where beer and pussy are involved.

[anj4de 0]

Hi

Check out Bob Mathews in Florida, he sells all MC-4 parts and complete rigs...

National Parachute Test Center
10501 SW 147th CIR
Price List Dec 2010 Dunnellon, Fl 34432
Phone 352 489-4898
Fax 352 489-4130

MC-4 HALO/HAHO P/N Cost Condition
MC-4 Complete, Assembled 11-1-3517 1,495.00 A/W
Harness Container 11-1-3517 400.00 A/W
Main Canopy 11-1-3518 400.00 A/W
Main Slider, Std 801001 0 75.00 A/W
Main Slider, Dome 11-1-3531 90.00 A/W
Main Risers 11-1-3519 40.00 A/W
Main Deployment Bag 11-1-3521 20.00 A/W
Main Pilot Chute 11-1-3522 100.00 A/W
Main Bridle 11-1-3523 20.00 A/W
Main Ripcord 11-1-3524 60.00 New
Loop, Closing, Main 11-1-3528 6.00 A/W
Loop, Elastic 11-1-3530 6.00 A/W
Toggle Assy, Pair 11-1-3527 30.00 A/W
Reserve Canopy 11-1-3518-1 600.00 NOS
Reserve Slider, Std 801001 0 75.00 A/W
Reserve Slider, Dome 11-1-3531 90.00 A/W
Reserve Ripcord 11-1-3525 60.00 New
Release Handle 11-1-3526 60.00 A/W
Reserve Static Line 11-1-3527 30.00 A/W
Reserve D-Bag 11-1-3529 85.00 A/W
Reserve Pilot Chute 11-1-3522 100.00 A/W
Loop, Safety Stow 11-1-3533 12.00 A/W
AR-2 AAD 451-500 595.00 NOS
Carrying Bag. 11-1-3698 35.00 Exc

For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

-Leonardo da Vinci

[greenfeet 0]

Hey everyone. I'm trying to find some specs on the reserve closing loop? My master rigger that is doing the reserve repack on my MC4 would like a little more information about the reserve closing loop before she makes one. I guess my old one has worn, stretched out, and is now a safety issue so she would like to replace it but needs some advice. Just call me - Will 717-350-6402

[dpreguy 14]

greenfeet
I think I have an old (red) closing loop setup pinned to an antique wall area. I'd send it to you for free, if you still are intent on jumping this old stuff. You do realize that the MC4 rig is only set up for a FXC 12000 pin puller AAD, right? And that it needs to be sent in frequently for a vacuum factory test?

Can't see why you'd choose this rig for sport. For example: How are you going to do RW with anyone with a 50 lb parachute? My advice is still to get a modern rig, modern canopies, modern AAD. You are dealing with a museum piece that has minimal performance, for no good reason I can think of.

[mark 102]

dpreguy

the MC4 rig is only set up for a FXC 12000 pin puller AAD

A number of MC4s have been retrofitted for military Cypres AADs. IIRC, the cutter channel runs are too long for a civilian Cypres, but a Vigil will fit.

Mark

[greenfeet 0]

hello dpreguy,
My MC4 has been set up for a Vigil II 2 pin AAD. I love this rig. I am jumping with this because I failed out of military freefall school last October. I will hopefully be returning this December. I purchased the MC4 months ago so that I could continue to jump with a heavier rig. I do enjoy sport rigs, but for me right now this is the rig I need to practice with.

The reason I need specs on the reserve closing loop is because my master rigger doing my reserve repack wants to replace it but she needs some specs on it. I was hoping someone on here would know more about it than whats already in the manual.
Regards,
Will