POV cameras and Jump number.

[JWest 0]

The111

***it was simply a way for me to observe the mindset in this thread. Specifically if people were just adopting the current attitude

Ah, so you're evaluating other people's attitudes. Cool.

JWest

Have you considered that since I was intentionally commenting to provoke an expected response that just maybe my attitude was misrepresented? I can assure you my skydiving attitude is much different than the one represented in this thread.

And you're also letting us all know that our perception of your attitude is probably wrong.

So, you evaluate the attitudes of the rest of us and you're right.
The rest of us judge your attitude and we're wrong.

It sounds like you're in the 0.1% in attitude judging, in addition to skydiving. Btw, 0.1% == mad skillz. How can any of us argue with you?


Attitude, not attitudes, not individuals. Pay attention to the words I use. I'm not evaluating anyones attitude. I was looking at the responses when I posted something that went against the current attitude. (People under 200 jumps shouldn't jump a camera/people aren't capable of 'passive filming')

The111

***There was no utility to it, it was simply a way for me to observe the mindset in this thread.

There is only one mindset in this thread you need to by observing much more carefully, and you haven't even come close. It matters not what we ask you or what you ask us. What matters is when you close your mouth and ask yourself why every single skydiver in this thread with thousands of jumps is agreeing on something, and you answer that question with the fact that maybe their experience contains a level of wisdom that all your Google searches and logic games cannot encompass. Or, maybe they're all just crazy internet dicks who don't understand sound logic. Your choice.

The reason they all agree is because in general they are right. The reasons why they agree my be differ, hopefully each developed there own opinion from observations/experiences. I wasn't arguing against that in general. I was just seeing if they would admit it is possible that someone could do what I was saying even though it goes against their normal rhetoric.

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Wendy, I was more trying to see how people would react to a topic they were already spun up about.

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Mistercwood - I actively remove context from my posts. Other people can't remove context from my post and I cannot do the same to theirs. That is the difference.

mistercwood

***I do know that I am capable of 'clicking and forgetting' Or 'passive filming' (I think that's a better term, both mean the same thing) because I have been doing it for years in other sports. That does not mean that I can/cannot do the same thing in skydiving.

If you can, that would be dumb, dumb, DUMB. What other sports have you done this in? You mentioned kayaking at one point didn't you? If you actively forget about the GoPro on a jump, you forget about the snag hazard. That goes for your lines, your jump-buddies handles etc. Hitting it on the door and having your attention away from your exit. If you forget it's there, you are forgetting about the actual risk posed by the physical presence of the object and not taking precautions against that.

Your argument has been that a person could theoretically turn on and forget. You are absolutely 100% correct. My argument is that forgetting about your camera on a jump is - in my noob opinion - more dangerous than awareness.

Thank you for recognizing that is correct. You are absolutely correct - also in my noob opinion- ignoring the snag hazard on their head would be a dumb thing to do skydiving.

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Serious question (no-one seems to be taking you up on this option): Does the GoPro setup you use in any of your other activities have a non-freak chance of killing you or someone else? Please give details either way.

No it does not. When kayaking I do actively film sometimes, when I'm in an eddy after a section of rapids. That way I can get some footage of my upstream friends. When I am going through the rapids I passively film. During the other activities -snow sports mostly- the camera doest really pose a physical risk. During those activities I pretty much only passively film if we want to do active filming we don't use gopros, we will use the DSLR's or handycams usually on a tri/mono pod. Does that answer your question?

[yoink 321]

At this point it doesn't matter what your intent was or what you pretend it might have been.

The real outcome of this thread is that you've successfully come across as an arrogant 100 jump wonder, and have alienated a bunch of skydivers. You've provided a great example of what NOT to do in a society.

Like I said, it's a small community. Don't be surprised if this comes up when you start travelling to jump.

[lyosha 46]

yoink

At this point it doesn't matter....

At this point I'm surprised people are still posting in this thread...

[jtiflyer 0]

JWest

******After the 360 I thought he was going to land but he just kept going.

There was no 360, there was a 270, and after that he was too deep in the corner to do anything but bounce. I eagerly await your inevitable opinion on swooping after you
have mastered the art of camera flying.

Totally was a 270, Can't believe he didn't bail at 180.

I already have an opinion on swooping, it's crazy. I enjoy front riser turns but I normally do them around 2k. 720 Is as much as I'll do because I'll hit about 65 MPH (according to my Viso II) and that close enough to cypress firing speed.

that statement is pretty funny considering there are 7 criteria for a cypress to fire. Its not simply about speed. The number of people that know what all 7 criteria is less than 3.

AGAIN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW.

[JWest 0]

yoink

At this point it doesn't matter what your intent was or what you pretend it might have been.

The real outcome of this thread is that you've successfully come across as an arrogant 100 jump wonder, and have alienated a bunch of skydivers. You've provided a great example of what NOT to do in a society.

Like I said, it's a small community. Don't be surprised if this comes up when you start travelling to jump.

Arrogent isn't the right word. I am 1 of 7 billion people. I do not matter, and I am an inexperienced jumper, I know that.

My friend don't like it when I do social experiments on them either.


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Seven firing criteria? I know there is a complex algorithm that probably involves time, speed, pressure, and altitude. But what are the other 5 firing criteria besides altitude and speed?

[piisfish 135]

jtiflyer

[that statement is pretty funny considering there are 7 criteria for a cypress to fire. Its not simply about speed. The number of people that know what all 7 criteria is less than 3.

AGAIN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW.

I know you need fuel and a lighter to fire a cypress

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Amazon 7]

piisfish

***[that statement is pretty funny considering there are 7 criteria for a cypress to fire. Its not simply about speed. The number of people that know what all 7 criteria is less than 3.

AGAIN YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW.

I know you need fuel and a lighter to fire a cypress

And Oxygen........ plus they light much easier if they are nice and dry.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

JWest

My friend don't like it when I do social experiments on them either.

Hmmm?......... see attached.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[billvon 2,393]

No more trolling. Your one warning.

[JWest 0]

billvon

No more trolling. Your one warning.

I wasn't exactly trolling. I genuinely wanted to/did learn something. Some of it was even skydiving related.

Anyway, I already explained what I've been doing and you can only get away with it once.

I close by saying. Jump numbers are important to people online while performance is important to people you jump with.

[JWest 0]

So long and goodnight.

[dorbie 0]

I sure hope this guy remembered to turn on his GoPro before exit.

https://www.facebook.com/andrey.veselov.14/videos/10205295561242776/

[The111 0]

dorbie

I sure hope this guy remembered to turn on his GoPro before exit.

https://www.facebook.com/andrey.veselov.14/videos/10205295561242776/

He's one of the .1% that has the ability to not be distracted by his chest strap while in freefall.

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[jtiflyer 0]

JWest

***At this point it doesn't matter what your intent was or what you pretend it might have been.

The real outcome of this thread is that you've successfully come across as an arrogant 100 jump wonder, and have alienated a bunch of skydivers. You've provided a great example of what NOT to do in a society.

Like I said, it's a small community. Don't be surprised if this comes up when you start travelling to jump.

Arrogent isn't the right word. I am 1 of 7 billion people. I do not matter, and I am an inexperienced jumper, I know that.

My friend don't like it when I do social experiments on them either.


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Seven firing criteria? I know there is a complex algorithm that probably involves time, speed, pressure, and altitude. But what are the other 5 firing criteria besides altitude and speed?


Like I said its closely guarded IP, similar to the recipe of Coke a Cola. Soif you knew all the criteria you would probably be the owner of Cypress

[mik 2]

Quote

dorbie

I sure hope this guy remembered to turn on his GoPro before exit.

https://www.facebook.com/andrey.veselov.14/videos/10205295561242776/

He did remember to turn it on. I saw his video. This was taken at Kolomna dropzone, near Moscow. They do lots of organized big way training jumps for fairly inexperienced people and this could have been one of their jumps. I am very surprised no one picked it up before boarding or on the plane, as the Let 410s have plenty of space and it should have been visible.
A great example of someone who can turn the camera on and forget the most basic of skydiving checks.
Clearly not someone of Jwest's mad skilz.

***********************************************
I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

[uer16 1]

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Like I said its closely guarded IP, similar to the recipe of Coke a Cola. Soif you knew all the criteria you would probably be the owner of Cypress

Shouldn't be hard to dump the flash/rom and figure out the disassembly. What MCU does the cypres have anyway? Should be old enough to not have fancy crypto. Might even have JTAG which will marginally simplify stuff. Of course if they went with an ASIC (which I doubt, production volume too small), all bets are off.

In any case, the "five other parameters" might include jumper orientation. Like adjusting for belly to earth or back to earth and such.

Might also be the state machine accounting for order of operations (i.e, will only fire when you go constant->ascending->freefall, but not in other weird scenarios). You can even count timer ticks as a "parameter".

Hell, they might have thrown a gyro and accelerometer to do some sensor fusion, would make sense for calculating orientation (don't know any other way to do it really). I'd love to get an out of date AAD and reverse engineer the hell out of it.

Edit: found Dave's (from EEVBlog) teardown of a cypres, very interesting if anyone's curious (probably was linked here before, but I didn't find anything in search): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-wzPTiLz5c. Uses some old Motorola ZC4 series along with a COTS analog pressure sensor and external ADC. Very unimpressive imho, which makes sense if you believe in KISS.
Also not sure how they determine the orientation of jumper with only the one pressure sensor (or maybe that's the newer cypres?).

[dorbie 0]

mik

He did remember to turn it on. I saw his video.

Thank goodness, I mean it'd be just embarrassing to forget to turn on your GoPro.

mik

They do lots of organized big way training jumps for fairly inexperienced people and this could have been one of their jumps.

He looks pretty experienced the way he's flying (at least after his dive).

mik

A great example of someone who can turn the camera on and forget the most basic of skydiving checks.
Clearly not someone of Jwest's mad skilz.

+1
Now that he's seen this video JWest is even more of an expert, so he's good to go.

[JWest 0]

mik

Quote

***I sure hope this guy remembered to turn on his GoPro before exit.

https://www.facebook.com/andrey.veselov.14/videos/10205295561242776/

He did remember to turn it on. I saw his video. This was taken at Kolomna dropzone, near Moscow. They do lots of organized big way training jumps for fairly inexperienced people and this could have been one of their jumps. I am very surprised no one picked it up before boarding or on the plane, as the Let 410s have plenty of space and it should have been visible.
A great example of someone who can turn the camera on and forget the most basic of skydiving checks.
Clearly not someone of Jwest's mad skilz.

Helmet, chest strap, leg straps, hacky, cut away, reserve. In that order every time. When I jump a camera that will be added to the list after the ones I've already mentioned.

So far I'm 100% on chest strap routing. Clearly he doesn't have my mad skills.

But I'm glad to see everyone blaming the camera.

[dorbie 0]

JWest

So far I'm 100% on chest strap routing. Clearly he doesn't have my mad skills.

From his flying I'd estimate he has 10x your jump numbers and was probably 100% on his chest strap routing until that jump.

JWest

But I'm glad to see everyone blaming the camera.

Still trying your best to ignore the lesson I see. You read and cited DSE's incidents list but try your damnedest to learn absolutely nothing from it. Just add this to the list.

[JWest 0]

dorbie

***
So far I'm 100% on chest strap routing. Clearly he doesn't have my mad skills.

From his flying I'd estimate he has 10x your jump numbers and was probably 100% on his chest strap routing until that jump.

JWest

But I'm glad to see everyone blaming the camera.

Still trying your best to ignore the lesson I see. You read and cited DSE's incidents list but try your damnedest to learn absolutely nothing from it. Just add this to the list.

I figured my sarcasm was strong enough to see but it's the internet. Anyway, what lessons did I fail to learn/am ignoroing from DSE's thread and this video? Please tell me what you think I don't know. I am genuinely curious. If you thought of an angle that I have not considered I will gladly admit it. As of right now it seems like the school of thought you represent is that, if there is a camera present and anything goes wrong during a dive it's the cameras fault.

Obviously that is ridiculous, but since you won't provide a comment with any thoughtful content you just seem pretentious.

So again, please tell me what you know that you think I don't.

[dorbie 0]

JWest

I figured my sarcasm was strong enough to see but it's the internet.

Me recognizing your sarcasm is how I know that when you wrote "I'm glad to see everyone blaming the camera", you hadn't actually learned a valuable lesson.

JWest

Anyway, what lessons did I, fail to learn/am ignoroing from DSE's thread and this incident?

I already stated it, but here's another opportunity to ignore it; unless that list affects your decisions on the ground before you jump and is not just fodder for the nonsense you post online then you're missing the point of it.

JWest

Obviously that is ridiculous, but since you won't provide a comment with any thoughtful content you just seem pretentious.

Pretending there's not 17 pages of ample justification of my opinion of you up there ^^^ is what's ridiculous. You still haven't understood what's happened here. I thought when you pretended it was all a game you'd started to catch on and show some self awareness but you just couldn't maintain the fiction.

JWest

So again, please tell me what you know that you think I don't know.

I think that you don't know that you have a dangerous attitude.

[JWest 0]

dorbie

***
I figured my sarcasm was strong enough to see but it's the internet.

Me recognizing your sarcasm is how I know that when you wrote "I'm glad to see everyone blaming the camera", you hadn't actually learned a valuable lesson.

JWest

Anyway, what lessons did I, fail to learn/am ignoroing from DSE's thread and this incident?

I already stated it, but here's another opportunity to ignore it; unless that list affects your decisions on the ground before you jump and is not just fodder for the nonsense you post online then you're missing the point of it.

JWest

Obviously that is ridiculous, but since you won't provide a comment with any thoughtful content you just seem pretentious.

Pretending there's not 17 pages of ample justification of my opinion of you up there ^^^ is what's ridiculous. You still haven't understood what's happened here. I thought when you pretended it was all a game you'd started to catch on and show some self awareness but just couldn't maintain the fiction.

JWest

So again, please tell me what you know that you think I don't know.

I think that you don't know that you have a dangerous attitude.

What is this valuable lesson I missed? I know the importance of doing gear checks. I know they are more important than turning on a camera and I know that even experienced jumpers can be distracted enough by something to forget to do a proper gear check. I also know that if it can distract an experienced jumper it can as easily/more easily distract an inexperienced one.

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unless that list affects your decisions on the ground before you jump

I have my daily gear check where I go over everything. My pre boarding gear check is: reserve pin, bridal, hacky, 3 ring, cut away handle, reserve handle, chest strap, leg straps, altimeter, audible, helmet (since I put it on last). My pre jump run check list is the one I provided earlier. If for any reason something isn't right during those checks I won't get on the plane/won't jump. I'm assuming that's what you met by affecting my decision.

***
As of right now it seems like the school of thought you represent is that, if there is a camera present and anything goes wrong during a dive it's the cameras fault.

Obviously that is ridiculous, but since you won't provide a comment with any thoughtful content you just seem pretentious.
Context, that school of thought is what I was saying would be ridiculous.
---------------------------------------


I explained what I had been doing in this thread when it went from people saying I am an inexperienced jumper that doesn't know what they are talking about to people saying I was unsafe and dangerous. I had to explain myself and put a stop to that. It ended up being the natural progression of the thread. I see that it is a somewhat reasonable conclusions because in many peoples eyes not listening to experienced jumper = unsafe/dangerous. I ended it because that is not me. I may participate in inherently dangerous activities like we all do, because skydiving. When I participate in these activities I do it in a way to minimize risk. I don't have and know how to use, swift water rescue training and associated gear, wilderness first aid and associated gear, avalanche training and associated gear, a personal locator beacon, survival training, and all the other safety gear involved with motorcycles, mountain bikes, snowmobiling, skiing, kayaking, skydiving and hunting, because I like to spend money and for shits and giggles. I have all of that training and gear to minimize risk for the activities I participate in. I am an inexperienced skydiver but I am not unsafe.

This thread came from curiosity and a question. That was all answered rather quickly. It wasn't until later that I waned to see if the threads mindset would prevent people from acknowledging things that generally went against it but were correct. I expected people to see why I had been saying what I was when I explained what I had been doing. Maybe it is my dislike of people who repeat things without critical thinking or people that don't understand whether or not the thought is even theirs in the first place, probably both, either way I am always interested in it. I don't know if you have ever studies sociology but if you haven't it is really interesting. This thread served it's intended purpose 100%. I learned a lot from it.

Due to the deserved warning from billvon, a moderator and extremely knowledgeable and respected skydiver I have ended all experiments/games/trolls. This is the real me, this is the type of post you should base your opinion of me on, not the 17 previous pages of nonsense.

[dorbie 0]

Your signature is a real gem:

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Jump numbers matter to people on the internet while ability matters to people you jump with.

Ability correlates with jump numbers and few skydivers overcompensate for their lack of skydiving by posting about their mad skillz on the internet as much as you do.

[jumpsalot-2 2]

Due to the deserved warning from billvon, a moderator and extremely knowledgeable and respected skydiver I have ended all experiments/games/trolls. This is the real me, this is the type of post you should base your opinion of me on, not the 17 previous pages of nonsense.

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Janet ...... this is the real you. Janet the game playing troll. See ya on the next page Jan .....

Life is short ... jump often.

[cruelpops 0]

JWest

Arrogent isn't the right word. I am 1 of 7 billion people. I do not matter, and I am an inexperienced jumper, I know that.

My friend don't like it when I do social experiments on them either.

Judging by this thread 'arrogant' and 'arrogance' would be the correct terminology. If you were my friend and were pulling a "social experiment" on me, I would punch you in the goddamn face and you wouldn't be my friend anymore.

Why haven't you filled out your profile?