POV cameras and Jump number.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

Di0

And I'll take a wild guess, if USPA was to create one today, N=200.

I'd bet they make it N= C license.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[JWest 0]

skyjumpenfool

***And I'll take a wild guess, if USPA was to create one today, N=200.

I'd bet they make it N= C license.

I'd still be happy with that.

To a previous comment:

100 jumps to be a coach, makes sense.
200, for wingsuit makes less sense.

200 so you don't get distracted. I don't think that has much to do with flying ability.

[fcajump 153]

(not aimed at JWest)

I would also suggest that one should use those same minimums between adding complexity...

i.e. we tell someone 200min for camera, and we tell them 200min for wing suit... great. But adding the camera and wing suit on jump 201, not so much. I'll let others argue whether the jumper should then have 200 wing suit jumps prior to jumping a camera WITH the wing.

Just my $.02
JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[wasatchrider 0]

you dont have 200 wing suit jumps do you?

BASE 1519

[fcajump 153]

wasatchrider

you dont have 200 wing suit jumps do you?

Nope, not even one yet. (your point?)

I have learned (sometimes the hard way) about introducing too many new things all at the same time. (which was my point)

I know that, like many others, I believed early on that I could put a camera on my head and "forget it". Quickly realized that I wasn't "forgetting it" during the dive. It was a new distraction.

While I don't yet have my 200 camera jumps, I've had it on long enough that I am now able to "forget it" during the dive and would be comfortable introducing another 'new' thing.

I simply suggest that a new camera flier should wait to introduce a wing, and a new wing flier should wait to introduce a camera, (at least on the same jump) until they no longer have to think about the how of using the new tool.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[kallend 1,621]

I'm coming up on 3000 jumps (1000 wingsuit) and I still don't like the idea of strapping a distracting snag hazard to my helmet. I own 2 GoPros which I use for scuba and on my drone, but no way one of those clunky things is going on my head.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JWest 0]

To bad there isn't said data about how many jumps are made with a POV camera compared to the number of times a bridal gets entangled with one. I'm willing to bet it's a really really small percentage.

POV cameras are only a distraction if you let it be.

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

Hi Nic,

Quote

cameras should be mandatory for low time jumpers.

How about this, Six-Camera Spherical Array http://recode.net/2015/05/27/gopros-next-adventure-virtual-reality-drones/



Jerry Baumchen

[mik 2]

JWest

To bad there isn't said data about how many jumps are made with a POV camera compared to the number of times a bridal gets entangled with one. I'm willing to bet it's a really really small percentage.

POV cameras are only a distraction if you let it be.

So, the jumper I have seen at boarding point with shiny new camera but having forgotten to put on their rig (yes, seriously), allowed himself to be distracted? The incidents with POV cameras and inexperienced people only happened because those involved allowed it to happen?

The voice of inexperience offering us all advice! (Whose strap line is something like "jump more, post less"? It seems highly relevant in your case!)

***********************************************
I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

[dorbie 0]

JWest

To bad there isn't said data about how many jumps are made with a POV camera compared to the number of times a bridal gets entangled with one. I'm willing to bet it's a really really small percentage.

Small percentages matter when the consequences are large.

[JWest 0]

Not relevant to skydiving that six camera array looks like it could be pretty sweet for it's intended purpose.

They allow their attention to be diverted from the primary task. So yes, if they stayed focused/concentrated on the primary task they would be distracted by the camera. Yes, not all people can focus as good as other people, and some people are bad at focusing. That doesn't mean that all people are incapable of maintaining focus. Calling me inexperienced.. in what skydiving? I agree with that. Calling me inexperienced in the use of POV camera during extreme activities? I've been doing that for multiple years, with multiple cameras, and multiple camera platforms. So yes I might be an inexperienced skydiver but I am not inexperienced with the use of a POV camera.

I suppose the consequences are pretty objective depending how you value 1/7,000,000,000

[piisfish 135]

you know what, I think you are right. About everything you say.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[fcajump 153]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Nic,

Quote

cameras should be mandatory for low time jumpers.

How about this, Six-Camera Spherical Array http://recode.net/2015/05/27/gopros-next-adventure-virtual-reality-drones/



Jerry Baumchen

Unfortunately, I suspect you'll see someone jumping with one within the year... No snag hazard here...

I do believe there are those exceptional people that can handle more than the average person in way of distractions and situational overload... but the rules need to be crafted for the average person not the exception, especially as the determination of "exceptional" is left to self-assessment.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[JohnnyMarko 1]

piisfish

you know what, I think you are right. About everything you say.

I concur. JWest is right. Thread over.

[tred 0]

Quote

Calling me inexperienced in the use of POV camera during extreme activities?

im not gonna tell you are right or wrong in your opinions, but I hope you understand how toolish this sounds and what it does for your argument

[JohnnyMarko 1]

tred

Quote

Calling me inexperienced in the use of POV camera during extreme activities?

im not gonna tell you are right or wrong in your opinions, but I hope you understand how toolish this sounds and what it does for your argument

Agreed, horrible argument...from the Small Format Camera "Incident" thread...

Quote

Midwest DZ, April 2011

First jump with a small format camera. Have owned one for about 2 years, using it for things like mtn biking, rock climbing, kayaking, snowboarding, etc. (not saying this made me ready to jump it, just more aware of what I was attaching to my helmet). Uneventful 2 way, was aware of the small format camera on my head but remained altitude aware, tracked off at 5.5, waved, deployed. Nasty spinning line twists, didn't want to chop because it was my first camera jump although I remained altitude aware in the spins, making the decision at 3K that I could kick out, started spinning out around 2.8, fully out of twists by 2.6.

[pchapman 261]

fcajump

Unfortunately, I suspect you'll see someone jumping with one within the year... No snag hazard here...

Haha, I jumped with a similar but smaller multi-directional VR camera gadget a couple years ago, the bubl cam, to get some promotional video for the company.

Come to think of it, despite the "ball on a stalk" appearance, it might not be as snaggy than a boxy GoPro...

(Attached: a messy exit wearing the camera).

[DougH 270]

JWest

POV cameras are only a distraction if you let it be.

And small highly loaded canopies are only higher risk if you let it be.

We can put new jumpers on small Velo's, they only have to fly their openings, and not make low turns.

It is only dangerous if you let it be.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[JWest 0]

tred

Quote

Calling me inexperienced in the use of POV camera during extreme activities?

im not gonna tell you are right or wrong in your opinions, but I hope you understand how toolish this sounds and what it does for your argument

Does it make me sound foolish? I'll reword it for you. I am fully aware that allowing a camera to distract me can end my life. This was learned from experience, research, and observation.

Quote

Midwest DZ, April 2011

First jump with a small format camera. Have owned one for about 2 years, using it for things like mtn biking, rock climbing, kayaking, snowboarding, etc. (not saying this made me ready to jump it, just more aware of what I was attaching to my helmet). Uneventful 2 way, was aware of the small format camera on my head but remained altitude aware, tracked off at 5.5, waved, deployed. Nasty spinning line twists, didn't want to chop because it was my first camera jump although I remained altitude aware in the spins, making the decision at 3K that I could kick out, started spinning out around 2.8, fully out of twists by 2.6.

Idiots will do idiot things because they're idiots. Granted they were under a solid canopy at a related height to someone who pulls at 3K. They remained situationally/altitude aware and handled there MAL. I would barely call this an incident. Which is why it's in the "incident" thread.

Quote

And small highly loaded canopies are only higher risk if you let it be.

We can put new jumpers on small Velo's, they only have to fly their openings, and not make low turns.

It is only dangerous if you let it be.

Correlate- Have a mutual relationship or connection, in which one thing affects or depends on another.

How does being distracted by a camera correlate to a twitchy high performance canopy? Don't answer, it's a rhetorical question.

[Trafficdiver 8]

Still dont have the sack to put up your name or jump numbers.

This thread is way past useless.

[JWest 0]

Trafficdiver

Still dont have the sack to put up your name or jump numbers.

This thread is way past useless.

The sack, hahah what is this, High school?

It showed me that people care more about jump numbers than ability. Amongst a few other things, I learned a lot about the community.

[wmw999 2,117]

The only thing anyone has to judge your ability is your own statements.

Do you believe what others say about themselves, regardless of what the evidence seems to show?

If you were talking about technical video stuff it might stand on its own. (I haven't done any freefall photography in too long differentiate good from BS, but I can read). But you're really just asserting that some people are special. Yeah, they are. I'm special too. I'm also mortal, and fallible.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[JWest 0]

That's why I put the option for it to be approved by DZO/S&TA.

I'll listen to my instructors/experienced persons advice before a random/experienced person because they have seen me fly and know what I may/may not be capable of.

[dorbie 0]

JWest

That's why I put the option for it to be approved by DZO/S&TA.

I'll listen to my instructors/experienced persons advice before a random/experienced person because they have seen me fly and know what I may/may not be capable of.

Sorry, this sounds like it was lifted straight from a wing loading thread. How can they assess whether you have the mad skillz to avoid getting distracted by a camera?

I'm less dismissive than others of your point that someone who has a LOT of sport POV camera experience may be less distracted by the camera than others, it is after all the other half of the experience equation in this and it seems rather strange to be so dismissive of it. However it would then depend on difficult to anticipate factors like how the camera is used, and how much attention it is given. There is a difference between a jump with a camera incidentally filming and one where you are mugging into a camera or fixating on a target with one etc. and I don't think you can make rules that draw a meaningful distinction between the two scenarios. Can a third party a priori know what your actions and attitude would be with a camera?

I dunno. Last person I took skydiving got the bowling talk during FJC so I sure as heck can't.

[JWest 0]

dorbie

***That's why I put the option for it to be approved by DZO/S&TA.

I'll listen to my instructors/experienced persons advice before a random/experienced person because they have seen me fly and know what I may/may not be capable of.

Sorry, this sounds like it was lifted straight from a wing loading thread. How can they assess whether you have the mad skillz to avoid getting distracted by a camera?

I'm less dismissive than others of your point that someone who has a LOT of sport POV camera experience may be less distracted by the camera than others, it is after all the other half of the experience equation in this and it seems rather strange to be so dismissive of it. However it would then depend on difficult to anticipate factors like how the camera is used, and how much attention it is given. There is a difference between a jump with a camera incidentally filming and one where you are mugging into a camera or fixating on a target with one etc. and I don't think you can make rules that draw a meaningful distinction between the two scenarios. Can a third party a priori know what your actions and attitude would be with a camera?

I dunno. Last person I took skydiving got the bowling talk during FJC so I sure as heck can't.


You bring up a solid point in distinguishing between the two. Indiscriminately filming is much different than being dedicated video.