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skyjumpenfool

Pac 750 stalls on jump run

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According to one of the jumpers, the line-up was as follows -
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Including video, we had five outside. The chunk being launched was a four-way base chunk with two outside and two inside, plus front float (me) and rear float, both of whom were zippers. I believe that the other six folks were not lined up at the door and instead stayed towards the front of the plane, but there might have been one more diver in the back.



So you're looking at five outside, plus three inside the door, with the remainder inside up-plane. So take the 8 jumpers in the rear of the aircraft, and figure they're good for 1500lbs. What are the numbers on the Pac? Can you hang 1500lbs in the way back?

In terms of blanketing the airflow to the tail, I'm sure that extending out to full arms length isn't helping things at all. That's the other downside to a low tail plane, is that anything you can hit, you can disrupt the airflow over while hanging around outside the door.

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Watching the video, it appears that the video-man was also leaning out, right hand on the rail.
This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

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have the outside folks lean out to make room for the two on the inside who were launching with the chunk - allowing them to get shoulders out and allow for a clean exit.



I don't think that's needed for only two divers. But for 3, you have to get one persons shoulders out completely, even for smaller divers.

yup, at least the rear inside person has to so that one can practice a chunk exit like on an otter

design=smaller door, low horizontal stabilizer

I wonder if any experienced skydivers at all were asked to comment during the development of a plane advertised as "designed for skydiving"

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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I wonder if any experienced skydivers at all were asked to comment during the development of a plane advertised as "designed for skydiving"

once again, do you people realize for which kind of skydiving it was designed ?
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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I wonder if any experienced skydivers at all were asked to comment during the development of a plane advertised as "designed for skydiving"

once again, do you people realize for which kind of skydiving it was designed ?



It was designed for the flight pattern and frequent cycling.

As for which kind of skydiving? I'd say it's most compatible in this order:

1 - getting a lot of tandems out during a day - effective

2 - cycling AFF jumps - effective

3 - 4 ways or smaller - reasonable (exits for Freeflying might need to be adjusted to avoid striking the elevators - small door and offset steps will affect 4way RW exits too

4 - medium ways (5w - 15) - not effective, doable, but not a good match

5 - CrW and other uses of hop and pops - meh

6 - wing suits - scary exits if you're new at it - not compatible

7 - bigger ways (16+, etc) - not a match


How'd I do?


Exit: for all the commentary, I LIKE this plane. I just think people need to be very aware of the wing and horizontal stabilizer location, and also about weight disty issues of course

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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I wonder if any experienced skydivers at all were asked to comment during the development of a plane advertised as "designed for skydiving"

once again, do you people realize for which kind of skydiving it was designed ?



Hey, given the plane's limitations (as a development of an earlier design rather than a clean-sheet design), you can expect people to put down the simplistic marketing claims.

You might as well have a doorway in a house that keeps on being advertised as "designed for people's convenience". But it is only 5'9" / 1.75 m high, and taller people are banging their head on it and cursing. I don't think the "convenience" issue goes away just because someone says, "Don't you realize what kind of people the door was made for?"

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>I wonder if any experienced skydivers at all were asked to comment during the
>development of a plane advertised as "designed for skydiving"

Actually, from what I heard they were. The parent plane of the PAC 750 - the Cresco - was used a lot in places like Australia for skydiving, and Pacific Aerospace talked to several skydiving operators who used them when designing the new plane.

It's not specifically built for skydiving alone, of course; we're not a big enough market. Freight, cropdusting and aerial photography are bigger markets, and its used for that. Nor was it a new design; it was basically a bigger Cresco. But they did have skydiving in mind during the design.

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I jump (fun, team and video) and organize, a lot, at SkyDance and usually organize and run the Bigways but this year wasn't there for the jumps as I was at my son's wedding.

We have used the PAC week in week out for 8way and bigger, I have 1500+ jumps in the PAC organizing and team jumps.

People at the outside rear need to get low NOT out and video get high NOT out to see. Everyone but the person with the count hug the plane or get low and there is plenty of room for an 8way launch (with video) and line up the rest inside and back moving on the count.

Using the inside bar also helps, I noticed on the video people using the outside bars and make sure you are using the lower step.

Additionally, in my opinion taking out the right hand seat (facing forward) also helps a lot for the people on the inside but it is a pain in the ass taking it in and out so we leave it in usually.

Yes an Otter is better but the PAC is a great plane for its size/cost/etc. My 2 cents.

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5 - CrW and other uses of hop and pops - meh



I've done one team CRW jump out of a Pac and we went back to the Otter immediately. Wouldn't kick it out of bed if it's the only thing around but it's not gonna fly CRW loads at Nationals.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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5 - CrW and other uses of hop and pops - meh



I've done one team CRW jump out of a Pac and we went back to the Otter immediately. Wouldn't kick it out of bed if it's the only thing around but it's not gonna fly CRW loads at Nationals.



yeah, low tail, small door, I'd think a well trained team would have to make some adjustments to get their timing down

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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I jump (fun, team and video) and organize, a lot, at SkyDance and usually organize and run the Bigways but this year wasn't there for the jumps as I was at my son's wedding.

We have used the PAC week in week out for 8way and bigger, I have 1500+ jumps in the PAC organizing and team jumps.

People at the outside rear need to get low NOT out and video get high NOT out to see. Everyone but the person with the count hug the plane or get low and there is plenty of room for an 8way launch (with video) and line up the rest inside and back moving on the count.

Using the inside bar also helps, I noticed on the video people using the outside bars and make sure you are using the lower step.

Additionally, in my opinion taking out the right hand seat (facing forward) also helps a lot for the people on the inside but it is a pain in the ass taking it in and out so we leave it in usually.

Yes an Otter is better but the PAC is a great plane for its size/cost/etc. My 2 cents.




I kinda figured the leaning out was a factor at least. Seems you guys had a plan about this before.
Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

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...that's just my way, doesn't mean it's the only way or right....I am sure other people have other methods that work for them also.


I'm glad you posted. I have limited experience with the PAC, but my jumps were from hanging outside. I did find the low tail scary but ignored it and dropped off OK. My question is how would that work for wingsuitors? Is there a greater danger of causing a stall with a group of WS outside? Have large WS groups used the PAC?
I think I could dive out or roll out an exit, even with a big wingsuit.
But what do I know?

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...that's just my way, doesn't mean it's the only way or right....I am sure other people have other methods that work for them also.


I'm glad you posted. I have limited experience with the PAC, but my jumps were from hanging outside. I did find the low tail scary but ignored it and dropped off OK. My question is how would that work for wingsuitors? Is there a greater danger of causing a stall with a group of WS outside? Have large WS groups used the PAC?
I think I could dive out or roll out an exit, even with a big wingsuit.


thats how you would do it.. :)
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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Have you done it?
If you jump a PAC with a WS, have you tried an outside exit?
I'm getting that there is a window to fly in with stalling on one end and hitting the tail on the other. Large groups outside can make it hard for the pilot to stay in that window so I wonder how wingsuits would factor in, as I may one day be asked to be in a group and get outside. This thread brought up some questions I had and seems like the place to ask some more.:)

But what do I know?

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i've never seen any wingsuiter outside of all the places i've jumped at.. :S

you didn't jump much did you ?
did "6 WS out" exits on Porter's already
can't remember doing any "out" WS exits on the PAC, but you can easily put 3 out
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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i've never seen any wingsuiter outside of all the places i've jumped at.. :S



It takes longer to build more than a 2-3 way when you can't have floaters in a wing suit formation.

When we started jumping wing suits a 2-3 way was on the large side, but now days you should be able to get enough people together that climb-outs are a fine idea.

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i've never seen any wingsuiter outside of all the places i've jumped at.. :S

you didn't jump much did you ?
did "6 WS out" exits on Porter's already
can't remember doing any "out" WS exits on the PAC, but you can easily put 3 out


i'm just saying i havent seen that.. ;)

besides the point, isnt it very likely to be pulled off when some part of your suit catches air!? i wouldnt want to try anyway.. :P
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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besides the point, isnt it very likely to be pulled off when some part of your suit catches air!? i wouldnt want to try anyway.. :P

are your arms made out of chewing gum ? you could still try and hold the plane with your würstli :D
you'll want to try it when you can :|
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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