premature deployment on exit.

[tvandijck 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vHbwlcFywg

I was a little reluctant to post this, considering the incident this week on another dropzone where something similar resulted in a fatal accident, but I guess this is good footage for some discussion.

Basically what happened here was some struggle to get all 8 people in the door of a twin otter prior to the count. On the count all 8 of us left, and although the exit was no beauty it was relatively stable, except that for some reason my D-handle got snug up to the person next to me and thus got pulled, resulting in my quick departure from the formation.

Quite a surprise, although I knew what was happening before actual deployment, and considering I packed the reserve myself I was pretty happy with my first official save.. but still, I had rather stayed with the formation...

It was noticed on the ground and in the airplane immediately after exit, and no additional people got to jump on that jump run and I got down as quickly as I could to clear the sky, stayed as much as I could in my own air space, basically spiraling down, and flying on 90 degree angle on the jump run as you would when tracking.

Anyway, obviously never saw the free bag back again, but am now wondering if a 'puddle' would have prevented this, and if I should change my gear towards that, considering I'll be doing more of this 8-way stuff in the future...

I'm not sure what other lessons can be learned from this though, I pretty much always check my handles before getting into the plane, and before getting out... but am obviously open for any suggestions about changes I can make.

[davelepka 4]

Quote

I'm not sure what other lessons can be learned from this

For starters, no harness grips. Grippers are for gripping, harnesses are for wearing.

Protect your handles. Of course as you move around the plane and such, but also during the climbout and in freefall. If any part of a skydive looks as if it will expose any of your handles to possible grabs/snags, change the jump, or find other people to jump with.

There should never be a struggle in the door. If you can barely get into position, how do you expect everyone to get a clean launch and present properly (the exit in your video is proof of this, not exactly what I would call 'clean' even without the reserve deployment). Chunk a clean six way with two divers. Then...

Dirt dive correctly. Put the climbout in the mock-up, and be realistic about what can be achieved on the actual AC in flight. The front super floater who hangs on by one hand on the mock up won't be that far forward on jumprun. The need to not fall off, and the wind will have him way less 'super' during the real thing. Point this out when you door jam it, and get him in the right spot so everyone else can see what they really have to work with.

Talk about handles in the dirt dive. Everyone outside the plane, who has one grip and one hand on the bar needs to be aware of where they're grabbing when they go to pick up that other grip during the exit. Make sure the inside guys have both grips in the door before you leave, so that's fewer hands grabbing around on the hill. Better yet, use those guys to help tie the outside guys together so they have an easier time picking up their second grip, less reaching and fumbling.

All in all, you guys got lucky on that one. The camera guy could have taken it on the chin if he was high and tight on the exit. If it funnled, your PC and freebag would be winding it's way through the bodies looking for the clean air. The freebag will seperate itself from the canopy, but your buddy wrapped up in your lines may not.

Cool video, and it looked like a nice opening.

[Rover 9]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vHbwlcFywg

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[Remster 26]

Quote

except that for some reason my D-handle got snug up to the person next to me and thus got pulled, resulting in my quick departure from the formation.

Weird... You were Rear, right (between rear rear and center)? On the exit you look like you are positioned staggered on top of the center person, so I'm not sure where your handle got stock? On his rig? but where? I'm having a hard time comming up with a place for it to get snagged on. Do you have any idea?

Remster

[riggerrob 601]

"... happy with my first official save.. "

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Congratulations.

[tvandijck 0]

I have absolutely no idea either.. we've been guessing about that for a couple minutes, but then decided to not have this ruin our day for much longer, and were in the plane 20 minutes later... (good to have 2 of those rigs ;) )

That said, I'm obviously as curious as anyone else. On thing to note is that the cable was curled up pretty badly, and the cable housing had deep scratches in the direction it was pulled. So it came out under a lot of tension. We're obviously replacing the cable with a new one.

The footage shows me somewhat being pulled on my side towards the outside center, but other then that there is absolutely no real evidence of what happened. It happened all very quickly, the movie I posted is already at 25% of the original speed.

Anyway, we practiced our exits in the mockup before every jump, and after this jump we took some extra time in the mockup to see what it could have been, we changes some small things here and there, and made an additional 20 jumps that weekend, without further incident.

[tvandijck 0]

Quote

"... happy with my first official save.. "

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Congratulations.

thanks rob... I had a good teacher ;)

[riggerrob 601]

What model of container was the "ripcord snagger" wearing?

This could be the start of a whole new "my rig is better than your rig" thread ...
Tee!
Hee!

[nerd137 0]

I know this doesn't really square with what you said about the cable and housing being all jacked up, but purely based on what I can see in the video, it's almost as though the pin simply slipped out of the closing loop.

[tvandijck 0]

Quote

I know this doesn't really square with what you said about the cable and housing being all jacked up, but purely based on what I can see in the video, it's almost as though the pin simply slipped out of the closing loop.

That would be unlikely, also considering the D-handle was out of the pocket, and the cable was highly curled up.. Additionally it was the first jump of the day, I check my gear first thing in the morning.. the reserve flap needs to be opened to turn on my cypress, so I would have seen anything wrong there.

Quote

What model of container was the "ripcord snagger" wearing?

Javelin Odysee, but a very very small one, I think he jumps a 97sqft of something elliptical and very fast.

[davelepka 4]

Where exactly did the reserve ripcord end up? The handle was out of the pocket, the pin was pulled, but you obviously had it afterwards as you've descirbed it's post-incident condition.

I'm just curious really, did it ride out the deployment hanging from the housing, or what?

Also, you descirbe damage to the housing, which end of the housing was damaged, and can you be mroe specific about the damage. I can onyl assume it was from the ripcord itself, and that damage should indicate the direction of the pull.

Given that you have the video as a reference, I'd be surprised if you couldn't look for what was moving in that direction just before your PC came out to play.

Maybe it got hooked over the corner of one of those goofy mega-grippers some jumpsuits have these days. Those things are built strong so jumpers can swing around on them all day long, it certainly could have yoinked out a reserve ripcord and shown no damage or evidence of such.

Edit - After taking another look at the video, it looks like the guy in front of you, in the black, has his hip area up in your reserve ripcord area.

Does he have cut-in laterals? Maybe the corner of his container grabbed your handle.

What does his legstrap pad look like just behind the hip ring? Some of them come to a point or corner, and if that slipped over your handle, it might have created just enough tension so when you slid off the guy, your handle didn't immediately follow.

Who's the guy facing you with the red, white, and blue Infinty? He's right in that neighborhood too, and just before your PC fires, his right hand is out of view. I don't think that was it, but you can't see the right hand, and the handle is within reach of that hand.

[bob.dino 1]

Like you, I'm struggling to understand how your reserve handle could be pulled. I've done a couple of hundred jumps in that slot and I can only think of two possible causes:

- your centre out (the person directly forward of you in the stack up) bumped it on climb out. If you were in the position you're in by the time the count is given, then this looks unlikely. There's plenty of clearance.

- the rear diver bumped it while looking for your right arm gripper. It can be very hard for the person in that slot to see what they're doing.

Neither of them sounds particularly likely. Even if your reserve handle was dislodged from its pocket, it's unlikely to deploy - there's too much tension on the pin. I've been in freefall w/ a dislodged handle a couple of times, and it's not been an issue. Something must've given the handle a decent tug.

Something goes through the frame at 0:26 as you leave - in the bottom right quadrant. I can't make out what it is. Reserve handle?



ps: you can tell your rear rear to stay down from the start. If you mirror the exit count, they can see it and don't have to readjust their position during the count.

[JUDYJ 0]

Tom...

Any new ideas?

I worked all weekend and just getting caught back up to the real world..

Just reading what you were thinking while going through it all helps me.. cuz if it can happen to you... then it can happen to me. And from some of my prior experience, I can remember stuff in a crisis that saves MY BUTT!!!

Thanks for sharing...

IF you are going to be Stupid - you better be tough!

[Harperd 0]

Any chance video has shots from the time he climbed out? I think the handle was pulled out, and possibly also trapped, when outside center came out of the plane, a few seconds before this clip starts.

[budvar 0]

Did you get yr free bag and handle back!!!!!

glad yr ok

[tvandijck 0]

To answer a couple of the questions asked:

> Why did the handle not come out of the rig if it was pulled?
It's somewhat hard to explain without pictures, but unfortunately I do not have a camera or drawing application at hand...

Anyway, I'm jumping a Vector3 with Skyhook, as some may know the skyhook comes with a different reserve pin, where the reserve cable is not actually attached to the pin, but rather has an 'eye' at the end of the cable where the pin runs through... If you pull the handle the eye pulls the pin, but the pin itself is entirely free to move. Then there is this extra line attached to the pin... now when you pull the handle, the pin gets pulled upward, but that small piece of line will make it rotate after it comes free from the reserve loop. once it is rotated and it still runs through the eye of the cable, it will essentially block the 'eye' from going past the housing, and thus prevent the cable from going any further that that... Mind you this is still more then 2-3 inch away from the loop, so it does NOT in any way prevent you from pulling.

I'll see if I can make a picture of this tomorrow at work, which may further clear this up.

> In what direction was the damage of the housing and where?
The damage to the housing was on the outside (where the handle is), and it was pulled in my facing direction, as in straight from my body.

> did you get the freebag?
No, I'm thinking that it ended somewhere up in San Diego.. It was so warm that day, with good thermals, so my guess is that it went far far away...

>what happened?
I really can't tell... the video is in 1/4 of the speed, and I still cannot follow all the things that are going on.

The one thing I remember is a 'strange' pull that kept me from presenting, and Marks face shaking a disapproving no no no, as I was looking him in the eyes ;)