fallin 0 #1 January 14, 2007 Hi all, Can anyone enlighten me on the benfits of PRO packing. Almost every experienced jumper seems to PRO pack...but is it better, safer or just cooler. I fly a Sabre 150; would I notice any difference in pack volume or opening. Thanx Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #2 January 14, 2007 I'd say "speed" is the diff. I'm sure you'll get some great responses, but having been packing with flatpak (how I learned) Jack-Pack (sort of a combination Pro and Flat) and ProPacking, I don't notice anything different other than speed. I'd *guess* that the flatpack is probably the most conscious and "safest" pack job of the different methods, but for me anyway, it's by far the slowest. As far as pack volume, I've got a 190 that just simply packs large no matter what method I used, I've tried all three and can't seen any discernable difference between any of the pack styles. However, I'm still pretty new in the game too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #3 January 14, 2007 Pro packing, would rather pay a proffessional packer anyday. flat packing takes up too much floor space and is slower. Cool does not play a factor in it. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 36 #4 January 14, 2007 I can flat pack as fast as a pro-pack, but pro-packs open consistently slower.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
docwva 0 #5 January 14, 2007 Flat packing is good but it means your canopy comes out of the bag at a 90 degree angle. pro packing comes out on heading . it also takes up less room on the floor. my spectre manual recomends pro packing.HIGH SPEED NO DRAG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpdr 0 #6 January 14, 2007 I would say the main difference was the orientation going into the bag. As someone pointed out, the flat pack comes out at 90 deg, the pro-pack (standing for Proper Ram-Air Orientation) comes out on heading. Flat packing is generally neater and so perhaps gives more confidence that you've done it correctly! It's also easier for larger canopies (such as a student or tandem canopy) as you're not trying to hold the weight of 290+ square feet of fabric! I'd also say it probably gives students a better idea of the 'anatomy' of the canopy and allows it to be left at the various check stages while they run off to find someone to check it! I think most modern canopies are designed to be Pro-packed (please correct me if I'm wrong), the Pilot certainly comes with colour coded line attachments so you can easily separate the line groups.Skydiving is more than a sport and more than a job: skydiving is pure passion and desire which will fill a lifetime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #7 January 14, 2007 Quote Flat packing is good but it means your canopy comes out of the bag at a 90 degree angle. Based on what? Have you tried it? Or just repeating what you've heard like a parrot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydog 2 #8 January 14, 2007 QuoteFlat packing is good but it means your canopy comes out of the bag at a 90 degree angle. pro packing comes out on heading That is wrong. Prior to bagging they are in the same orientation, no matter which method you use. If you dont understand why then get your local packer to show you. The only difference I have found between the two is time. Some newer, and usually smaller sized, canopies dont have packing tabs. Which makes it more difficult to flat pack and some manufacturers recommend how best to pack them. BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fallin 0 #9 January 14, 2007 Thanks for the info Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #10 January 14, 2007 QuoteI would say the main difference was the orientation going into the bag. As someone pointed out, the flat pack comes out at 90 deg, the pro-pack (standing for Proper Ram-Air Orientation) comes out on heading. Flat packing is generally neater and so perhaps gives more confidence that you've done it correctly! It's also easier for larger canopies (such as a student or tandem canopy) as you're not trying to hold the weight of 290+ square feet of fabric! I'd also say it probably gives students a better idea of the 'anatomy' of the canopy and allows it to be left at the various check stages while they run off to find someone to check it! I think most modern canopies are designed to be Pro-packed (please correct me if I'm wrong), the Pilot certainly comes with colour coded line attachments so you can easily separate the line groups. My stack pack/flat pack still has the nose pointed forward and the tail split around all of it just like a pro pack. I do not suffer from off heading openings. I know a multi-time world RW champion that when he packs for himself (not often any more), still stack/flat packs (at the time it was a stilleto, don't know what he has now). It doesn't take longer than a pro pack. I don't think it is right to say the canopies are "designed" to be pro packed. Just that the mfgs say that it is better. There are many different ways to flat pack, including what used to be called a roll pack, where both the nose and tail were simply folded/rolled toward the center. That method of flat packing has gone out of favor.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peek 20 #11 January 14, 2007 Well, first we need to get the names of the packs jobs figured out. It seems many people are using the name "flat" for anything laid out on the floor, but it's not that simple. See the article "Ram-air parachute packing methods" at: http://www.pcprg.com/skydive.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Babi 0 #13 January 15, 2007 I find that with flat packing I can extract more air from it and can pack it smaller volume and this way it is easier to get into the bag as well as close the container. Flat packing is also a lot easier with larger canopies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #14 January 15, 2007 QuoteHi all, Can anyone enlighten me on the benfits of PRO packing. Almost every experienced jumper seems to PRO pack...but is it better, safer or just cooler. I fly a Sabre 150; would I notice any difference in pack volume or opening. Thanx Flat - much easier for a newbie to understand what is going on with the packjob (oh-boy am I going to get slammed for that...) Everything is laid out and orderly. Can be a quick as a PRO. If done correctly the canopy is packed in line, but often the nose (ONLY) is wrapped toward one side (this is the origin of the "90 degrees off heading" concept) and there is a way of handling the nose that "corrects" this, though I never found it necessary. In my experience this is a great way to start and is good for F111 canopies. PRO - focuses on splitting the canopy left/right around the center cell and is easier to get the canopy to open on heading (IFF you also address the other 100 things that cause a bag to twist prior to canopy extraction). Easy to learn if you have a multicolored canopy, are familiar with the construction of the canopy and can picture what is going on while holding your head upside-down in a nylon bag . In my experience, this is a better technique for controlling ZP canopies. (PRO - Reserve canopy techniques are very similar, but followed by additional dressing rarely done on mains and in my mind is a different method.) Having travelled a bit, I have found that many DZ's do not have space for everyone to flat pack, so I finally learned to PRO pack... (besides who would trust a rigger who couldn't PRO pack their main...) About me - Main Flat packs: ~800 Main Pro packs: ~400 Your experience will vary. Better - neither Safer - neither (IFF learned/used correctly) Cooler - PRO is perceived so as you spend more of your time standing, but the proof is that packing yourself a mal is uncool if you mess up using either technique. My guess is that the typical Sabre 150 jumper (who packes for themselves) PRO packs. JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #15 January 15, 2007 QuoteI find that with flat packing I can extract more air from it and can pack it smaller volume and this way it is easier to get into the bag as well as close the container. Flat packing is also a lot easier with larger canopies. Oh, how I wish this were so for my Silhouette. I could have bought the next size down container and kept it for the next canopy progression. No one, using any packing method, could get any difference. Both in high altitude/cold, and Hawaii/warm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aguila 0 #16 January 22, 2007 I am not an expert and it took me a while to learn how to flat-pack my chute (I cannot even do my bed yet ). This is is my experience: Pro pack is a lot easier even for my PD210, it is a much more faster, needs less room to pack, openings are great and on heading (with flack packing you should expect some turn) if you pack it well. You can easily pack it for fast, slow and normal openings. Disadvantage: very difficult for bigger canopies. It is cooler, too Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #17 January 22, 2007 I would never PRO pack a canopy larger than 120 square feet. It's pointless, takes longer, and does not open any better. If you, when PRO packing, cannot lift the canopy off the ground and hold it at your hip while you flake it, you are wasting time. If you hold it over your shoulder or, GASP!, use a hook, you are really out of your mind. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aguila 0 #18 January 22, 2007 I forgot to mention that my PD Ram-Air Parachute Owner's Manual recommends Pro-packing for my PD210 (Page 13) and fully describes each step: pages 13 to 34. Please check this link: http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/MainUsersManual.pdfGonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #19 January 22, 2007 QuoteI would never PRO pack a canopy larger than 120 square feet.... Chuck Is this a typo? Do you really mean 120 or did you mean 220? If you ment 120 you must be REALLY short!I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #20 January 22, 2007 has anyone tried the psycho packing method??? packing sequence looks revolutionary dude,,,,it adds another cool factor at the packing area,,,Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 102 #21 January 22, 2007 Quotewith flat packing you should expect some turn Why do you think that happens? Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aguila 0 #22 January 22, 2007 I think it happens because one side of the canopy gets air before the other sideGonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 102 #23 January 22, 2007 Quote I think it happens because one side of the canopy gets air before the other side. A kind of pin-wheel effect, then? Do you think it would turn more if it took longer to open? (I'm imagining a reefing system that holds the lines together at the base of the canopy for an extra 2, 3, or 4 seconds before letting the deployment continue normally.) Also, I'm having a little trouble visualizing how one side of the canopy "gets air" before the other side does. Maybe you could draw a picture. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aguila 0 #24 January 22, 2007 Well, as I said I am not an expert. I think that as the right side of the nose is folded over the left side of the nose the right cells get air before the left cells, producing more lift on the right side and causing a left turn. I think it would turn more if it took longer to open because the asymmetrical lift would last longer. But I am sure you know the answers a lot better than me Gonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #25 January 22, 2007 QuoteHi all, Can anyone enlighten me on the benfits of PRO packing. A standing pro-pack takes less space. When it's 90 degrees out, space is limited inside, and space outside isn't pro-packing means you won't have to choose between making people happy by not using too much room and drowning in your own sweat. A standing pro-pack lets you reduce opening speed some by rolling the tail which will be more significant on your Sabre than more modern canopies. Pro-packing makes symetrical reserve pack jobs which fit into molar bags. The big downside is that a standing pro-pack doesn't offer positive control over the steering lines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
