FrancoR 0 #1 August 11, 2009 The above happend last week, i was wondering what most people think, still courious though if i was right. Details: Reserve is not out of the container, reserver Pilotchute and bridle is. Cessna 206 has a fabric door, same as i explanied in the Thread about the observer incident in Stadlohn Germany. 4 jumpers left on the plane Not to experienced jump pilot No Students, no Tandems everybody 300+ jumps. Not saying the details matter, but to some people they might. FrancoIf it does not cost anything you are the product. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #2 August 11, 2009 If the door isn't already open and there's fabric out, there's no way whatsoever that I would let that door get opened. Experience of jumpers (or lack of) makes no difference. That cabin is way too small to mess around in. I'm used to a solid door in a 182. With the fabric door, it becomes everyones job to keep the pilotchute away from the door. Just my $0.02. I'm a pilot and a jumper."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NealFitz 0 #3 August 11, 2009 no matter what kind of door it is dont open it and land it takes a wee bit of air to pull someone out the door and put everyone in dangerDudeist Skydiver #170 You do not need a parachute to skydive, you only need one to skydive again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fallfast69 2 #4 August 11, 2009 I sure would like to know the reasoning behind thinking it's ok to open the door with a malfunctioning parachute onboard Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #5 August 11, 2009 Quote I sure would like to know the reasoning behind thinking it's ok to open the door with a malfunctioning parachute onboard Because the reserve is still inside the bag, inside the container. The jumper can sit with his back to the wall so it doesn't fall out, and he can hold the pilot chute in his hand, sit on top of it, stuff it inside his jumpsuit, or whatever, to contain it so that it doesn't escape. Minimal danger here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #6 August 11, 2009 My biggest embarassment in skydiving.... Earlier in the year, in my first time sitting in a Twin Otter cargo compartment (Skydive Chicago puts two jumpers in the cargo department of the Twin Otter, behind the jump door), my reserve cover accidentally snagged on something and the pin got pushed out. Pop. I was surprised to see a pilot chute whose bridle led to my rig. The reserve apparently stayed in the container. Door was closed as it was just before jump run. I simply went to the pilot's seat and essentially contained the pilot chute, while the rest of the load emptied with their existing jump plan, except for myself who I had to ride down. That said, the copilot's seat is a considerable distance away from the jumpdoor, I was safely sitting containing the pilot chute and the copilot seat contained my opened reserve container with the still-folded reserve sitting in it. I'm still a bit mad at myself for letting that happen. Lesson learned, and I'm far more aware of snag hazards in unfamiliar seats. Nothing like such that stuff to deflate any leftover "100 jump wonder ego" in you. Went back in the air on the next load, rigger repacked reserve before the subsequent load, and the day was back to usual, with just a bruised ego. That said, I'm not sure if a Cessna is big enough to let the rest of the load be dropped while leaving the last jumper to ride down. I'd probably end up preferring to land with the plane if the jump door is within a bridle length's or less away from the farthest seat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d123 1 #7 August 11, 2009 Off topic but speaking of snag hazards and Cessna, a friend of mine posted this movie on his facebook page that showed me a bad side of RSL/SKYHook + Cessnas combo that I've never seen before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bv_NqiT7pM This is one situation where I don't want to do my emergency procedures by reflex.Lock, Dock and Two Smoking Barrelrolls! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #8 August 12, 2009 QuoteOff topic but speaking of snag hazards and Cessna,[...] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bv_NqiT7pM I think that one's good enough for its own Gear & Rigging thread. Will start one there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #9 August 12, 2009 Quote Quote I sure would like to know the reasoning behind thinking it's ok to open the door with a malfunctioning parachute onboard Because the reserve is still inside the bag, inside the container. The jumper can sit with his back to the wall so it doesn't fall out, and he can hold the pilot chute in his hand, sit on top of it, stuff it inside his jumpsuit, or whatever, to contain it so that it doesn't escape. Minimal danger here. But please consider that if everyone else jumped, there would be one lone jumper sitting in a windy cabin with an open door. You can't expect the pilot to close a fabric door and you certainly wouldn't want the jumper to try. Sometimes, as frustrating as it can be, we simply cannot abandon our friends to face needless added risk. We just have to swallow the adrenalin and do the right thing. The door stays shut and you take your friend back down to a safe landing. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #10 August 12, 2009 does the group work as a team ??? to contain the reserve as the Rig is removed from the jumpers back??? Then the jumper is seatbelted safely to the aircraft??? the rig is monitored?? and everyone lands... with the plane?? certainly a different situation in a cessna, as compared to an otter.. so what say you????? everyone..??? stay In the rig, or get it off the jumper??? what about the possiblilty of an aircraft emergency (mechanical ),, ? (i guess we ALREADY have an aircaft emergency)..... but, what if it becomes necessary to GET OUT.. while the plane is in descent mode??due to an engine issue??? i suppose it's not the best idea to get out of the rig.... but it seems to me that it has become a "hot Potato",,,, and might be better if it was NOT secured to a jumpers body... good question, OP... jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StefB 0 #11 August 12, 2009 Quote Quote I sure would like to know the reasoning behind thinking it's ok to open the door with a malfunctioning parachute onboard Because the reserve is still inside the bag, inside the container. The jumper can sit with his back to the wall so it doesn't fall out, and he can hold the pilot chute in his hand, sit on top of it, stuff it inside his jumpsuit, or whatever, to contain it so that it doesn't escape. Minimal danger here. And in case of an emergency he'll do a hop&pop CRW jump with the pilot (diver driver, not pilot chute)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #12 August 12, 2009 My first vote is for everyone to stay in the airplane. However, I do not agree with keeping the pilot chute in the container and pressed against the firewall (or wherever). I'd rather help take the pilot chute out, and hold the wind-grabbing fabric with my hand tight inside the spring. In other words, no, don't try ot keep the spring compressed -- that's adding tension to a system. Remove the tension; let the spring come out while someone is controlling it, and then keep it under control, and not under tension. That way I won't be jostled and have it slip out. Frankly, with the pilot chute controlled in that way, I'd almost be comfortable with everyone else getting out. The one issue is, of course, that then the door is open the whole way down. But in an aircraft emergency, the jumper still has his rig -- he releases the pilot chute, and it's like jumping a hand-deploy. Not pretty, but beats going in with the plane. Regardless, a pilot chute contained on the front, without tension, where you are holding it and can see it, is better than a pilot chute contained on your back, where you can't. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrancoR 0 #13 August 12, 2009 Thanks for all the input. In the end we all landed with the plane and everyone was ok with that. I was just a bit disturbed that this was reason for a little discussion and one of tenthousand jumpwonders :-) on the ground said we should have jumped. I have seen the same issue twice on a Turbolet (Twin Otter size), but in that case the plane was big enough to keep the jumper safely in the front of the plane. FrancoIf it does not cost anything you are the product. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fallfast69 2 #14 August 13, 2009 Quote Quote I sure would like to know the reasoning behind thinking it's ok to open the door with a malfunctioning parachute onboard Because the reserve is still inside the bag, inside the container. The jumper can sit with his back to the wall so it doesn't fall out, and he can hold the pilot chute in his hand, sit on top of it, stuff it inside his jumpsuit, or whatever, to contain it so that it doesn't escape. Minimal danger here. I'm not what you would call a safety nazi by any stretch, but to open the door in this situation seems like a horrible idea and isn't "minimal" danger. We're not talking about an Otter, we're talking about a tightly packed and windy 206. But, on the other hand it does mean you have to land with the airplane and THAT's some dangerous shit right there! Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenediktDE 2 #15 August 19, 2009 Open reserve container in a 206 with a soft door is really very dangerous. Everyone should try his best to keep bridle and PC away from the door while the whole load lands. In Stadlohn the reserve was deployed only by the reserve bridle being sucked out under the soft door. I would want to avoid playing around with nylon to much or even opening the door.For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
