ExAFO 0 #1 October 19, 2006 Ok, been on the ground for about 18months. (Pilot training and law school take time and $.) What's this about people slipping out of the bottom of a harness? Is this only a problem with sitfliers whose leg straps go to low, and deploy in the sitting position, or is this of concern for RW filers also? Is there an inherent flaw in the harness design of all rigs that freeflying has uncovered? Please advise. The thought of slipping out of a harness on deployment is rather unnerving. Thx -MeIllinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #2 October 19, 2006 The harnesses are not perfectly inescapable. The leg straps (and the rest of the harness) on most or all current designs don't prevent the wearer from lifting his or her legs far enough that the harness no longer supports the wearer in a way that makes the harness want to stay on. (I.e. in this case, the user can slide butt-first out of the entire harness. This is verifiable on the ground for some people.) The yoke design will not guarantee that a head-down deployment won't strip the rig off the wearer. I don't know how tandem student harnesses work well enough to talk about them. Sometimes harnesses fail (webbing breaks or disconnects), too, although I haven't heard of that resulting in harness escape as much as just spinning into a hard landing. All of this is rare, from what I understand. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #3 October 19, 2006 How many fatalities have you ever heard about related to this? Properly fit sport gear is not a concern. There have been two tandem fatalities lately which is what you are probably thing about. Both cases were tied back to improperly secured harnesses. There are plenty of things to worry about in skydiving that will kill you. if you have a properly fitting harness this is not one of them."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #4 October 19, 2006 QuoteProperly fit sport gear is not a concern. It is possible to fall out of properly fit sport gear. Read this thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1906126;search_string=falling%20harness;#1906126 And this article: http://www.makeithappen.com/spsj/fallout.html I will emphasize your point that an improperly fit tandem student harness is of great concern.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #5 October 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteProperly fit sport gear is not a concern. It is possible to fall out of properly fit sport gear. Read this thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1906126;search_string=falling%20harness;#1906126 And this article: http://www.makeithappen.com/spsj/fallout.html I will emphasize your point that an improperly fit tandem student harness is of great concern. Tandem harness we agree on. Sport rigs not so much. I agree there is some concern but let's be honest here is there a single fatality in the last decade related to someone falling out of a harness? How many million sport jumps a year are there? It’s just not a high probability event. Jan's article starts, "There have been several fatalities of people falling out of a harness. These were either jumpers with unfastened chest straps or suicides." Then moves on to discuss a 1983 incident. The dz.com thread you pointed to starts, "Background: My rig is second hand and thus doesn't fit me perfect. I am aware that my rig (especially the yoke) is a bit too big for me." While I agree there is concern about harness issues, I am not aware of a single fatality in the last decade, or more, related to it. Most of the risk comes from improperly fitting gear. This is avoidable… don’t buy used gear that does not fit right. Also, it is important to have all the straps secured tightly. One can loosen their chest strap after deployment. I’d much rather have people spend their time worrying about their EP’s or understanding wind limits, etc. than obsessing about an issue that unless I’m mistaken has not killed anyone, on sport gear, in a generation. Of course I could be wrong there might be more recent issues I’ve missed."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #6 October 20, 2006 I agree that it is not an area that should pull one's focus away from other important aspects of the sport - such as EPs (which you mentioned). I am just leery of blanket statements like "that's not a concern" or "that's a myth" (which you did not say - that came from another thread). I guard against people who read the forums as their primary source of learning (which is the wrong thing to do) taking such blanket statements as gospel and not doing any more research to make their own informed decision. I could introduce to to an old timer around here that fell out of his harness and survived. I haven't seen him in years, but I know that it happened. I'm not sure what the exact circumstances were. Falling out of a harness remains a possibility - that's my main point.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #7 October 20, 2006 QuoteFalling out of a harness remains a possibility - that's my main point. I think we are in agreement here. It is a risk but a low probability one. I think the main lesson is that properly fitting gear is critical. Improperly fitting gear presents a much higher risk. Now for stories, I know a nationally recognized jumper with I believe 10,000+ jumps (initials RL), that told me that in all of his jumps he had an improperly routed or chest strap come totally unthreaded in free fall 6 times. I would have expected the stories to the better. He said, he basically used his left arm to hold his upper right harness tightly at deployment."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #8 October 20, 2006 Quote Sport rigs not so much. I agree there is some concern but let's be honest here is there a single fatality in the last decade related to someone falling out of a harness? How many million sport jumps a year are there? It’s just not a high probability event. I don't believe there was anything but some close calls of people falling out of tandem harnesses until just recently. So just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't. My rig is a custom made Mirage and I can strip it off of me in 3 seconds in a sit if the leg straps go down to my knees(and they can without much work), so it's not just poorly fitted second hand gear. Though really since skydivers use poorly fitted second hand gear, then the gear needs to be safe in that configuration anyway. But I also don't think it's much of a risk. Just an aspect of gear(a possible hole under your ass) that people need to be aware of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #9 October 20, 2006 Very well summarized - PERFECT! Thanks for that. Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bloody_trauma 2 #10 October 22, 2006 Skydiving magazine had a good article about the one that happened at aerOhio, but it was all written during the preliminary report i think, said something about the straps being improperly placed and them being loose. but i could be wrongFly it like you stole it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
