Scuba before Jumping

[UKKid35 1]

I guess I've been lucky. I did a couple of jumps in the morning and then went off for some scuba training in the afternoon. This was 18m for 30 mins plus 7m for 30 mins. About 3hrs later I returned to pick up my gear but was offered a jump which I took without hesitation. It wasn't until I was at 4,000 feet that I realised that this probably wasn't the best decision I've made. If my ears hadn't been popping a little more than usual on the lift I wouldn't have noticed any effects at all. The lift was to 10k in a sluggish C-208.

Anyone else been so foolish?

[huge 0]

I can only say that I wouldn't do it, but then again I'm pretty conservative when it comes to scuba and skydiving.

DAN does suggest that there should be 18 hour surface interval before flight if you have done repetitive dives during the day. But then again, those rules or suggestions have been drafted based on the assumption that cabin pressure is equivalent of 2000ft - 8000ft, so in that respect getting to 10k after 3 hour surface interval is definitely pushing the limits.

[chuckakers 370]

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I guess I've been lucky. I did a couple of jumps in the morning and then went off for some scuba training in the afternoon. This was 18m for 30 mins plus 7m for 30 mins. About 3hrs later I returned to pick up my gear but was offered a jump which I took without hesitation. It wasn't until I was at 4,000 feet that I realised that this probably wasn't the best decision I've made. If my ears hadn't been popping a little more than usual on the lift I wouldn't have noticed any effects at all. The lift was to 10k in a sluggish C-208.

Anyone else been so foolish?

That could have been bad, at least according to the fundamentals. Can't say I've ever come close to that. I have always stuck with the easy 24 hour rule. That way I feel sure I'm good to go no matter how many dives I've made or how deep I've gone.

Might want to see a doc anyway. If I'm not mistaken, symptoms of the bends can appear well after the fact. Not sure if there's anything they can do besides have you take a trip to the chamber, though.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[UKKid35 1]

This happened a few days ago, I jumped the following morning, and flew home on a scheduled flight the day after. I think I'm in the clear now.

I'm not particularly fit, and didn't do any exercise between the dives and the jump, except now I think about it, I remember the scooter ran out of petrol and I had to push it for 20 minutes. I guess that may have been a blessing in disguise...

[Eagle7 0]

In the U.S. students (non-certified) scuba divers can be covered by DAN (Divers Alert Network) for free. Either the scuba instructor or the student can enroll the student.

Certified divers pay for the insurance. DAN will answer specific medical questions by email or telephone. They will also tell you to seek medical attention if needed. If you have DAN or something similar in the UK you should contact them and tell them what you did so they can advise you accordingly.

If you are a student and do not know if you have diver’s insurance you should contact your Local Dive Store or a scuba instructor in your area and tell them what you did. They can point you to a doctor that specializes in dive medicine. If you can not find a scuba shop in your area you should speak to a doctor.

What you did goes against recreational scuba training. You should review flying after diving procedures with your scuba instructor. I hope you keep skydiving and keep scuba diving! Good luck!

[Tomcat933 0]

I don't want to be the jerk, but that was not smart, plain and simple. I guy on a dive boat i was on in Curacao got a very mild case of the bends, and spent four six hour sessions in a recompression chamber. Decompression sickness can kill you, and not only that, but it would be a particularly painful way to go. You most likely wouldn't have died in this instance, because the second you felt symptoms the pilot could rapidly descend, but you could have seriously injured yourself, not to mention, i would freak out in that small ass recompression chamber for eight freaking hours. Going from sea level to 10,000 feet THREE HOURS after diving is a big deal, and a pretty stupid thing to do. SDI, and i'm pretty sure PADI as well recommends you wait 24 hours to fly after diving. You might should have paid more attention in your certification course, and i hope you do not make this mistake again, because as far as i can tell, you are VERY lucky.

[Beerlight 0]

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I guess I've been lucky. I did a couple of jumps in the morning and then went off for some scuba training in the afternoon. This was 18m for 30 mins plus 7m for 30 mins. About 3hrs later I returned to pick up my gear but was offered a jump which I took without hesitation. It wasn't until I was at 4,000 feet that I realised that this probably wasn't the best decision I've made. If my ears hadn't been popping a little more than usual on the lift I wouldn't have noticed any effects at all. The lift was to 10k in a sluggish C-208.

Anyone else been so foolish?

That could have been bad, at least according to the fundamentals. Can't say I've ever come close to that. I have always stuck with the easy 24 hour rule. That way I feel sure I'm good to go no matter how many dives I've made or how deep I've gone.

Might want to see a doc anyway. If I'm not mistaken, symptoms of the bends can appear well after the fact. Not sure if there's anything they can do besides have you take a trip to the chamber, though.

Chucks dead on when talking about developing DCS symptoms way after the fact. Matter of fact it's called Delayed Decompression Sickness for a reason. Luckily this guy missed getting a bends hit or worse developing a central nervous system (CNS) disorder....

Also for all, it's called either a compression chamber, a dive chamber or the technical term HYPERbaric chamber.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I guess I've been lucky. I did a couple of jumps in the morning and then went off for some scuba training in the afternoon. This was 18m for 30 mins plus 7m for 30 mins. About 3hrs later I returned to pick up my gear but was offered a jump which I took without hesitation. It wasn't until I was at 4,000 feet that I realised that this probably wasn't the best decision I've made. If my ears hadn't been popping a little more than usual on the lift I wouldn't have noticed any effects at all. The lift was to 10k in a sluggish C-208.

Anyone else been so foolish?

Well, it's not quite so miraculous as others suggest. I know cavers that show up at the airport with their hair still wet. I certainly wouldn't recommend it without more study/experience with decompression theory, but hey, it looks like you got away with it. If you're not feeling scratchy skin or a sore shoulder or double vision or headaches by now...

The key was the 30 minutes at 24ft. Staying at sea level, you can go to 10m nearly infinitely (well, about 24hrs). The worst would likely be long dives in the 15-20m range. These tissues load slowly, and unload slowly.

Are you on vacation, cramming in as much as you can? Frankly, simultaneous training in two potential lethal sports isn't a great idea. There's a lot of important information/lessons to learn, and your mind can't concentrate as effectively when you're doubling up. (And no one knew you were out diving half the day?)

[kelpdiver 2]

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I have always stuck with the easy 24 hour rule. That way I feel sure I'm good to go no matter how many dives I've made or how deep I've gone.

Wouldn't trust this as an absolute. 2 or 3 tropical dives and then flying 18 hours later isn't the same as doing 5 or 6 dives to the limits and then going 24 hours later.

did DAN ever finish their study with chamber dummies doing various profiles? A couple years ago they sought out to finally come up with something better (and less resort driven) then the simple 24/18/whatever answers.

[Tomcat933 0]

Beerlight, i assure you plenty of divers call it a recompression chamber. It makes sense, it "re-compresses" you to some of the depths you experienced when you got bent. I've heard compression chamber, and hyperbaric chamber is obviously the "official term", but in six years of diving i've never heard anyone call it a dive chamber. Hyperbaric chambers can treat anyone who has been subjected to rapid decreases in pressure, scuba diver or not.

[Tomcat933 0]

I just checked the DAN website, the only term they use to name it is recompression chamber.

[Ralph_W 0]

For those who dive on air or even nitrox I would recommend to wait the 24 h before flying.

For those who are realy educated on decompression, use helium, agressive decompression mixes and calculate their decompression on a normal computer, flying or jumping even after longer decompression dives is not a problem.

Done it myself several times, used a Doppler (ultra sonic device to check for bubbles in the blood) to check for bubbles after the jump, found none.

Ralph

Silence is golden. www.bt-ag.ch

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I guess I've been lucky. I did a couple of jumps in the morning and then went off for some scuba training in the afternoon. This was 18m for 30 mins plus 7m for 30 mins. About 3hrs later I returned to pick up my gear but was offered a jump which I took without hesitation. It wasn't until I was at 4,000 feet that I realised that this probably wasn't the best decision I've made. If my ears hadn't been popping a little more than usual on the lift I wouldn't have noticed any effects at all. The lift was to 10k in a sluggish C-208.

Anyone else been so foolish?

Nice, you found one more way to get yourself kill or disabled....

[antonija 0]

This subject is so not well researched that it's quite rude for people to tell you you're an idiot for doing it. However since you did ask about consequences _after_ doing it... you're an idiot.

That was my attempt at a joke.

Now for some facts: Diving tables (and resulting diving calculators and computers) were devised from data US Army (or some other shoot-the-bad-guy organisation) released on scuba test they conducted on soldiers. So this data was relevant to young men in their peak physical condition with no known diseases or disabilities that could impair their diving. The experiment was to see at what depth/time combo soldiers would get bends.
This data was then recompiled with additional safety factors to compensate for different age, sex, fitness level, smokers, injuries, etc. Result is the recreational dive planner (dive tables). This should give you some idea of how the numbers in those tables relate to you (obviously no one will tell you it's OK to go over the accepted limits but then again no one will claim that those numbers are absolute limits for every person on this planet).

Second thing you need to know is just what exactly bends is and why it occurs. The nitrogen bubbles, clogged artery, stroke, etc. is all fine and dandy, but no gas will escape from liquid instantly and every process in nature has it's own speeds and factors influencing said speeds.
I don't know much about how fast nitrogen will escape from human blood at body temperature and different pressure differences, but I know it's not instant. So you do have some "buffer" time before you get bends (and again no one is saying that pushing this time is a good idea).

To recap: It's a stupid thing to push accepted limits if you have no knowledge of why those limits are set at specific numbers and what can you expect from pushing them.

EDIT: It's called statistics, not luck

I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne

[Beerlight 0]

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Beerlight, i assure you plenty of divers call it a recompression chamber. It makes sense, it "re-compresses" you to some of the depths you experienced when you got bent. I've heard compression chamber, and hyperbaric chamber is obviously the "official term", but in six years of diving i've never heard anyone call it a dive chamber. Hyperbaric chambers can treat anyone who has been subjected to rapid decreases in pressure, scuba diver or not.

I use that term also. I didn't mean to exclude it from the list, just an oops. I've been managing and operating hyperbaric and hypobaric chambers for 27 years.

[thedude325 0]

My scuba gear has a computer with "bars" that represent your blood nitrogen saturation. When they go down(depends on how much diving, what depth, and how long), I'm good to jump again.

[antonija 0]

Your computer has bars that show what a mathematical model predicts to be your blood nitrogen saturation. Model developed on the data from diving tables.

Depending on an individual those bars can show lower saturation than in reality (thus putting you at risk of doing more diving), but since they are overcompensated for the difference between young solders and below average civilian most of us should be safe if diving computer says so.

Or like they say in skydiving: know your gear :)

I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne

[Travman 6]

I think spending 30 minutes at 7m would have been very beneficial. I have been told by scuba instructors that 5-6m is the best safety stop depth as the air density allows you to off gas a lot of nitrogen. So that would have helped you a great deal.
I have a dive computer that calculates my desat and no fly times based on my breathing rate, depth and heart rate, but even so I would personally wait 24 hours after surfacing before flying, even if it says I was ok.
I know someone who got the bends from driving over a mountain range after diving. The 10 others on the course did the same dives and came back at the same time, so you never know.

[grimmie 173]

During the Belize boogies we have jumpers mix skydiving and SCUBA during 10 days. I have one strict rule. on this area. Everyone puts 24 hours between diving and jumping. We had one jumper get the bends after waiting 24 hours to jump. That has been the only problem in five years.

[Martini 0]

Do what you want, accept the risks, be armed with at least some knowledge of what you are attempting and the possible consequences. I have done many skydives after diving. I know that I'm using myself as a guinea pig, I also do things thoughtfully. For example I wouldn't do a 13k wingsuit jump immediately following a long deco dive but doing 3k hop-n-pops 3 hours after a 40 minute dive to 60 feet on Nitrox isn't something I worry about. I'm NOT recommending this to you, it isn't a conservative thing to do. Decide on your risk/reward tolerance based on thought not luck, push the envelope with your eyes open not by accident. Also keep in mind that even if you do everything by the book you could still get bent or die skydiving or choke on a bone etc.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............

[Shark 0]

As both an AFFI and PADI instructor I would definitely say that was foolish, while being lucky. I guess anyone that wants to dive then fly is rolling the dice. My minimum is 18 hours after a 3 dive day, certainly longer if I can. Then again, my dive profiles are more conservative than yours.

Best of luck,

Shark

[UKKid35 1]

The main purpose of my original post was to alert inexperienced jumpers like myself to the potential consequences of combining jumping with other activities.

The excitement of being offered a jump at the end of the day at a dz where it was difficult to get more than two lifts per day meant I acted without thinking. I hadn't intended to jump that evening, but found myself on the lift all the same.

The best advice I've seen in this thread is to keep other people informed, so they have some chance to keep you from hurting yourself, and I will be acting on that in future.

[dorbie 0]

Why did you ride it up above 4k once your realized? They'd have made it up faster after you got out.

This seems like one of those situations where you need to overcome your inhibition to take action and exercise the safe option.

[mutumbo 0]

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Beerlight, i assure you plenty of divers call it a recompression chamber. It makes sense, it "re-compresses" you to some of the depths you experienced when you got bent. I've heard compression chamber, and hyperbaric chamber is obviously the "official term", but in six years of diving i've never heard anyone call it a dive chamber. Hyperbaric chambers can treat anyone who has been subjected to rapid decreases in pressure, scuba diver or not.

They also use them to treat acute mountain sickness(a portable version, but the same principle), and in some cases as therapy for diabetic patients. just food for thought

Thanatos340(on landing rounds)--
Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet.

[UKKid35 1]

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Why did you ride it up above 4k once your realized? They'd have made it up faster after you got out.

Three reasons:
I didn't immediately realise the seriousness of the situation
I didn't feel ill (presumably it would have been too late if I had)
I would have been embarrassed - I'm serious, I really do mean that