kelpdiver 2 #76 September 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteBut if I remember my consumer law correctly, its a long time since I did classroom law but, they have to pay any and all reasonable costs. Have you ever read the manual? Disclaim All the commercialised Vigils (100%) passed all our various tests, technical inspections as our quality control. However, we can’t totally exclude any malfunction on Vigil. So, A.A.D. nv/sa declines any responsibility in regard to a slightest default occurred to a Vigil, which escaped detection during test. In other words, you buy it you own it. The manual doesn't have a thing to do with the law. It can say anything it wants, but that doesn't settle things. I don't see any case winning, but for other reasons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #77 September 19, 2006 Quote The manual doesn't have a thing to do with the law. It can say anything it wants, but that doesn't settle things. And your law degree is from what night school?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #78 September 19, 2006 Please keep the personal comments to a minimum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #79 September 19, 2006 QuoteTalked to Pat on Sunday, and he said that during the vigil misfire issue in the DC-9, the plane _pressurized_ - it did not depressurize. Pressurizing means that the airplane's cabin altitude went below ground level....However, in this case, the Vigil apparently thought it was dropped suddenly _below_ ground level and returned to the surface rapidly. Apparently it fires in that case as well. (This is an issue because this is what happens when you slam a trunk, or close the door on a well-sealed room.) If thats the case the unit functioned properly. Incidentaly, the cypress manual also states not to fly below the DZ altitude that the unit calibrated to."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #80 September 19, 2006 Quote If thats the case the unit functioned properly. Incidentaly, the cypress manual also states not to fly below the DZ altitude that the unit calibrated to. My understanding is that Cypress will not fire in this scenario (it would be stupid), but it will set itself to a new 'ground' pressure, which really is below the landing altitude. The problem is generic and I see no workaround - to know the "ground" altitude Cypress has to watch altitude change during plane takeoff. Sure the described scenario will broke it, but there is no way to tell Cypress "yes, we've took off, so this is the ground".* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #81 September 19, 2006 Quotebut there is no way to tell Cypress "yes, we've took off, so this is the ground". Device notice take off from pressure change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alex_778 0 #82 September 19, 2006 QuoteQuote The manual doesn't have a thing to do with the law. It can say anything it wants, but that doesn't settle things. And your law degree is from what night school? Before you also question my credentials, I did a BS, followed by post grad law course and then an MS. My BS 7 MS are in IT and I did the law to understand the law as it relates to computer misuse, hacking law etc......I am not a lawyer and none of mine were done at night school. So, I do not know what it is like in the US but in the UK you are not allowed to sign away your consumer rights. There is legislation to protect the consumer against 'corporate disclaimers' - The Unfair Contract Terms Act. So, again. If the manufacturer will replace the cutter for a bona fide fire then it is REASONABLE to expect them to replace it for a no fault of your own 'mis-fire'. If your new car don't work it goes back to the dealer, if your new PC don't work it goes back to the shop, if the sole falls off the new pair of Vans you have just bought they go back to the shop. The interesting point is I am talking UK law, which is now encopassed in European law because of the EC EU or whatever its called at the moment. But, Vigils come from Belgium so they ARE subject to EU EC consumer law in Europe. Therefore it should be assumed that they are vicariously also subject to similar legislation in the US. And, bottom line I know some corporate lawyers who deal with claims against their corporation. Their attitude is that they would rather payout $100 making a customer happier than spending $5000 prepping for a hearing in civil court. So if anyone has a misfire just write a letter telling them that THEIR product had a misfire and that your purchase of THEIR $1300 product has cost you money which you now require a refund of. And, that if you receive all the costs for your out of pocket expenses in regard to this matter you will take the matter no further and provide no adverse or detrimental product comments or advertising to potential buyers of THEIR product. Added to which, like washing machines you do not get the manual till you buy the thing.....no contest. The consumer has rights, use them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #83 September 19, 2006 QuoteSo, I do not know what it is like in the US End of discussion.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alex_778 0 #84 September 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteSo, I do not know what it is like in the US End of discussion. You will find that US law is primarily based on English Sheriff Law. Therefore the word REASONABLE can be used on both sides of the pond. As it is a REASONABLE expectation that you would get a new cutter et al over here it should also be a REASONABLE expectation over there. Hey! Its not everyday you get $200 an hour advice for nowt mate. And, as far as I am aware the US also has consumer legislation. Bottom line, my AAD goes pop on the ground I would throw it back at the manufacturers agent with the paperwork ready for a small claim court case - for those UK folk reading this it cost a few quid and will focus the mind of the dealer who sold you the kit. Like I said, the consumer has rights its only because people do not use them or have them enforced on their behalf that companies get away with a service that should be better. My disclaimer: I am in no way calling into doubt the quality, build or robustness of the Vigil AAD this is beyond my expertise, I am talking about general consumer rights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #85 September 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteSo, I do not know what it is like in the US End of discussion. This isnt a US website Michael. Its an international one. Considering the product in question is European, I would value the input of europeans a great deal.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #86 September 19, 2006 QuoteQuote The manual doesn't have a thing to do with the law. It can say anything it wants, but that doesn't settle things. And your law degree is from what night school? You don't need a law degree to be familar with the law. I guess I missed the rest of the post, but can't be bothered. I should ask you which night school you went to given the claim you made. Every time you start a job you sign a contract that may be half bullshit with non compete clauses that aren't legal. You sign or you don't work, but that doesn't make it binding. I know many people here love to treat contracts like commandments from a god, but illegal contracts (or clauses there within) aren't binding. More relevent to this subject, software comes with EULAs (end user legal agreements) that have gotten pretty ridiculous - just by opening the wrapper on the CD you've agreed to terms you don't even really know. Worst case violation would be the Sony music cds that put spy/malware on your computer, one that could be used as a rootkit to remote sieze control. No one was informed of this result - it had to be discovered by the community. Vigil's notice is very much like the EULAs - the seller can try to force it, but its legitimacy will be established in a court, not by the company lawyers. Don't mistake this stance for thinking I believe there is a legit cause against Vigil in court. I do think there is good cause to shop elsewhere. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #87 September 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteSo, I do not know what it is like in the US End of discussion. This isnt a US website Michael. Its an international one. Considering the product in question is European, I would value the input of europeans a great deal. I didn't say it was a US website. He said he did not what it is like in the US. Well I live in the US so any further discussion would be a waste of time. See how that works?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #88 September 19, 2006 QuoteBut, Vigils come from Belgium so they ARE subject to EU EC consumer law in Europe. Therefore it should be assumed that they are vicariously also subject to similar legislation in the US. It's the EU. Your assumption is incorrect. Consumer protection laws apply to the country of purchase, not the country of manufacture. Otherwise a computer made in China and sold in the UK would be subject to China's consumer protection laws and not the UKs. Which, as you know, is not the case. This is also why Parachute de France don't sell gear in the USA. They'd be subject to the legal environment of the USA, with all its attendant litigation problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
alex_778 0 #89 September 20, 2006 @bob.dino, sorry confusion. I mean that as we have such good consumer legislation in the UK there should doubtless be something similar in the US. I did a quick google and there does seem to be a reasonable degree of consumer legislation through the various States. At the end of the day if a manufacturer is selling through an agent in whatever country they cannot sell something with the attitude and written terms of:We are selling you this widget to do 'X', but if it fails to function as advertised then we assume no responsibility. Major auto manufacturers do not have recalls for no reason, major Seattle based software producers do not provide product patches for no reason. Regarding the French, well.................they are the French, mon ami. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aguila 0 #90 January 19, 2007 Maybe this link helps when dealing with consumer's rights. http://www.bbb.org/reports.aspGonzalo It cannot be done really means I do not know how to do it ... yet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gashimo 0 #91 November 25, 2007 Has anyone heard of a Vigil activating under a normal Main Canopy? Approx. 600' on base leg. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
