Did I make the right decision not to cut away?

[midlifecrisis 0]

This was my first jump on a new container (Used, but new to me). I have made several jumps on this canopy, but we just put it in this container the night before. My plan was to open pretty high and learn the equipment. I opened at 5000 feet and I had a really hard opening that broke a line and ripped my canopy. Since I was still about 4000 feet I decided to see if it was still stable instead of just chopping it and going to reserve. I hit the brakes really hard several times and put it in a full stall, turned both directions fairly hard and kept a really close eye on the rip. It didnt grow and seemed to fly fine so I made the decision to land it. Once I got below about 2500 I was really easy on it just in case, but thigs went fine and I made a good landing right on target.
My questions are...
Should I have just cut away?
If it didnt tear more with agressive manuvers up high, was I stupid to land it?
What would you have done?

Ive been skydiving for about 5 years but still under 100 jumps. I believe that learning is something we do forever in this sport so Im looking for other opinions to help me make decions in the future.

Im including a pic so you can see the hole in the canopy.

[Jbag 0]

you are 1 lucky SOB...reasons:
1) was there a hole in the top skin? if its bigger than your head cut that shit...

2) you can not safely determine how fast you are descending at 1k 2k 3k etc etc etc, you will only know if that hole has an effect on your descent rate when you land and brake your shit or land and walk away...i'd rather not take the chance.

3) that hole is almost the size of one of your cells...if not the size of it. now you are flying with less surface area.

mostly the issue is #2,

IHYD

[midlifecrisis 0]

The rip was about 2 feet long, but only on the bottom layer. The top was not damaged and I could not see sky.

[virgin-burner 1]

i would of cut away; if gone different, the 80$'s for the repack could have saved you a life in a wheelchair - at best!

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[pchapman 261]

Cutting away seems the safer alternative in general. We don't really have any formal canopy damage assessment and flight training in this sport, so there isn't a lot of experience to build on.

But you did give the canopy an impressive workout, not some wimpy "gentle turn left and right" control check. Given that, I'm OK with the decision to land. There was an added risk but it didn't seem excessive.

Your wing loading is probably not that high yet, which would be in your favour. With a hole and broken line aft and on the bottom skin, it would likely be less critical than a broken line up front or a top skin tear.

[jverley 0]

First, you did the right thing by doing a controlability check (Is it square, is it steerable, etc). After that it is a judgment call. I would have done what you did, but I have a few more jumps. People who say they would chop anything that is not pristine, forget that reserves fail too. Why would you give up a square, stable, controlable canopy for the unknown?

Its very unlikely a rip would get larger. The material is called "rip-stop" for a reason.

Congratulations on dealing with the situation and landing safely.

John
Arizona Hiking Trails

[MarkM 0]

If I was able to put it through the paces like you did, yeah I'd land it. I'd disconnect my RSL(if I had one) and be ready for a canopy transfer if it started ripping more below 1500 ft. Also I'd prep for a PLF on landing in case the decent was a little higher than normal. I wouldn't land a damaged high WL canopy though.

[pilot-one 0]

You should explain a canopy transfer to someone with only 100 jumps.

[MarkM 0]

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You should explain a canopy transfer to someone with only 100 jumps.

Eh, I'm really hesitant to because it might spiral the thread off into a "OMG you'll die doing that" and it's sketchy.

But probably the best thing to do if you're too low for a cutaway is "be ready to get more fabric over your head". Disconnect RSL, pull reserve, kick it out so it inflates if you need to. You now have a two out.

Land that or cut the main if you start to downplane. Nothing radical there and it's preferable to streaming into the ground under a shredding main or cutting at 800 ft and impacting under a reserve that isn't fully inflated.

[Remster 24]

Why would you disconnect the RSL is you do a canopy transfer?

Remster

[MarkM 0]

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Why would you disconnect the RSL is you do a canopy transfer?

Just how I was taught. Think the idea was to prevent it from being a snag hazard when your main gets cut. Maybe that's not something to worry about.

[JohanW 0]

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Why would you disconnect the RSL is you do a canopy transfer?

Just how I was taught. Think the idea was to prevent it from being a snag hazard when your main gets cut. Maybe that's not something to worry about.

I was taught the same, with the same reasoning, explicitly.

No need to keep an extra foot and a half of snag hazard around, it won't be doing you any good in that situation.

Johan.
I am. I think.

[skydiver604 0]

Wow, that's really neat, I've never heard of it. Sounds like it would be used as a last measure when you've done everything else to survive a shitty jump.

"The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it." - Michelangelo

[midlifecrisis 0]

Quote

But you did give the canopy an impressive workout, not some wimpy "gentle turn left and right" control check. Given that, I'm OK with the decision to land. There was an added risk but it didn't seem excessive.

Your wing loading is probably not that high yet, which would be in your favour. With a hole and broken line aft and on the bottom skin, it would likely be less critical than a broken line up front or a top skin tear.

I did brake really hard 3 or 4 times and I didnt do any riser dives but I did both right and left turns with the toggle all the way to my knee and held it for at least a 360. The broken line was in the middle near the tear, not out on an edge. I felt that I had put as much stress on it as a landing flare would and things seemed fine.

For some reason I forgot to mention any details about my equipment used. Not sure if it really maters, but Im still new to this forum so please forgive me.

The container is a Javalin, main is a Fusion 190 and its a 1.23 wingload (my exit weight is 235).
The canopy has been sent off to the manufacture to be inspected, repaired and relined.

Several people have commented on why I had such a hard opening... We kinda of believe it was a combination of issues. The way it was packed and the chance that I was still in a track.

Thanks for all your input guys!

[kmills0705 0]

I would (and have) done exactly what you did.

You assessed the situation, decided you can land it and did. Why chop a perfectly good canopy. I think doing so puts you in panic mode. No need to panic at 4K. See what you got and if you can land it. Kudos to you and being a heads up jumper!

Oh and about canopy transfer... that should be taught to students. Do not cut away below 1000 feet. Disconnect RSL and pull reserve. That is FJC stuff people!!!!

Kim Mills
USPA D21696
Tandem I, AFF I and Static Line I

[tjm 0]

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People who say they would chop anything that is not pristine, forget that reserves fail too. reply]

I met a guy once that said he would cutaway end cell enclosures.

If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room!

[Tolgak 0]

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First, you did the right thing by doing a controlability check (Is it square, is it steerable, etc). After that it is a judgment call. I would have done what you did, but I have a few more jumps. People who say they would chop anything that is not pristine, forget that reserves fail too. Why would you give up a square, stable, controlable canopy for the unknown?

Its very unlikely a rip would get larger. The material is called "rip-stop" for a reason.

Congratulations on dealing with the situation and landing safely.

I agree with everything except the note about rip-stop fabrics. That name is total crap, as I have seen many instances of those fabrics continuing to tear after small rips with minimal force.

Dropzones are terrible places for inspiration. What does one think when one looks up for a sign only to see a bunch of people falling?

[tjm 0]

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Why would you disconnect the RSL is you do a canopy transfer?

Just how I was taught. Think the idea was to prevent it from being a snag hazard when your main gets cut. Maybe that's not something to worry about.

I was taught the same, with the same reasoning, explicitly.

No need to keep an extra foot and a half of snag hazard around, it won't be doing you any good in that situation.

I was taught the same, but when i did my canopy transfer I wasn't wearing an rsl anyway. I don't like to use them anymore, but thats irrelevant to this thread.

If you're not living on the edge; you're taking up too much room!

[diablopilot 2]

You done good.... canopy passed a control check, was manageable, and once the damage is done. it's unlikely to get worse. That's the nature of ripstop.

Anyone who blindly says "breakaway" hasn't really considered the very real possibility of a problem on a reserve deployment.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[rehmwa 2]

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2) you can not safely determine how fast you are descending at 1k 2k 3k etc etc etc, you will only know if that hole has an effect on your descent rate when you land and brake your shit or land and walk away...i'd rather not take the chance.

had a friend with a torn canopy - flyability checks showed it good and he decided to land it

He messed up his leg and hip pretty bad and was out for the rest of the season.

reason - he couldn't assess his descent rate until it was too late to cutaway - hard landing, very hard landing

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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If it didnt tear more with agressive manuvers up high, was I stupid to land it?

don't use the word "stupid", you were "lucky this time" and you made what was likely the wrong choice

I like the advice - if you can get your head through the hole, a cutaway is in order

if you are of scandinavian descent - then modify that to "if you can get your face in the hole"

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[midlifecrisis 0]

I know I keep adding details to this topic, but here is the video of my landing. I know its not perfect, but I was still thinking about the hole in the canopy and not much else. After all... this was my first landing with a damaged canopy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA8EFuNasLc

[Harmless 0]

FWIW...

Taking into account a good controllability check, top skin not ripped, and fairly light wing loading--- I would have landed it.

"Damn you Gravity, you win again"

[JohnDeere 0]

You did the right thing for you. If you would have flared more, then you wouldn't have had to run out that landing, but i'm sure you had enough on your mind at the time

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[midlifecrisis 0]

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You did the right thing for you. If you would have flared more, then you wouldn't have had to run out that landing, but i'm sure you had enough on your mind at the time

My mind was really busy with the canopy damage, but something funny... I landed RIGHT where I wanted to. The camera guy was my target and I landed about 50 feet in front of him and ran right up to him. This was probably one of my most accurate landings to date. Go figure. They always did say not to over think things...by not focusing on the landing I landed right where I intended.