Need Realistic Thoughts on Helping a Friend Through Suicidal Depression

[Blindpost 0]

I'm trying to look at this situation objectively, gather all of my thoughts, and sort through them. I'm just posting to use other peoples' brains to try to add something of value...

I have a good friend that has been terribly depressed for many years. She is suicidal. She recently quit her job and moved out of country to live with her sister to see if 'getting away from here' would help.

It didn't. Apparently now her family is smothering her somehow and the insanity of all that is worse than her own illness (her words).

She has medical issues that haven't been solved and haven't been helped very much...endocrine and reproductive system issues that always seem to compound depression problems...

I send her messages now and then to try to keep tabs on how she's doing without hovering, and she sent me a message yesterday saying that she just left her sister's house and is now crashing at a friend's who lives about 30 miles from me because she couldn't handle her sister...she left her puppy with her sister (the puppy was her psychotherapist's idea), and told me that she confirmed that her mom and dad would take care of her pup if 'anything should happen'. Well damn if that isn't a sign that all hell is breaking loose...

She's been seeing a psychotherapist, and is looking at or has been to a psichiatrist. She's on meds. She's following 'doctors orders' and getting exercise, and taking care of a puppy and her two cats (or was until yesterday), and is still finding that life is not worth it.

We're going out together tomorrow...obviously I called her immediately when I saw her response to my last message yesterday. She says that she's happy around me & it reminds her of why we had been best friends from 6th grade through high school...

This is what I've got:

She needs to get involved in a hobby or a sport or something where she can find friends. She will NOT find friends in her bedroom with a bottle of wine and pills.

She is brilliant and needs an outlet; if she could start writing fiction, like we used to when we were kids, she could find her true calling...or phtography, or SOMETHING.

Take advantage of the freedom that you have and FORGET DATING RIGHT NOW. Part of the depression stems from failed attempts at dating (online services, whatever). I swear women need to look for interests...find friendships by pursuing those interests, and eventually you'll meet a guy while doing that! Spear hunting for a man never works.

Her family is trying to protect her because her behavior is scaring them. Don't be mad at them because they love you...

And finally, I am always here. You had better always be there. If you do something to yourself I swear to God I'm hunting you down in the afterlife and will beat the living shit out of you. (Ok, that part I'm not saying in those words...)


I am a REALIST. Institutionalising someone in a severely depressed state NEVER SEEMS TO JUST PROP THEM RIGHT BACK UP ON THEIR FEET. I have seen too many sides of suicide to believe that garbage. -Send them to the hospital, you save them for a week and solve nothing in the long run.

She's already SEEING professional help. What am I missing? What other options?

I can't be with the woman 24/7, and she is not 'needy' and calling me daily or anything.

How the hell do I help my friend? Thoughts? Please give me some ideas. I am not a doctor. SHE'S seeing the doctor. What the hell else do I do here?!?


PS...she's not the only single 30-something female friend that has suddenly called me with depression/suicidal thoughts. If you can believe it, I have another friend that I visited in her house just last week with almost the same - damn - issues stemming from her parents death in a plane crash (she wanted me to read the NTSB report and ask me what I thought because I fly)...

My God I am not a doctor. I know they trust me and need me right now, but I am running out of ideas...I didn't finish my psych degree and I am lacking. I am not trying to fix them, I am trying to be what they need me to be -a friend.

[floridadiver81 0]

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I am trying to be what they need me to be -a friend.

And thats all they will ever need....a friend. Everyone seeks comfort in their peers. You are doing good right now by jsut being there for her. She is seeking professional help...let them help her..thats what they are there for. You...should be there for the comforting and letting them know that they will always have someone to talk to and do things with. IMO you are doing what you should be doing!

"Age has absolutely nothing to do with knowledge, learning, respect, attitude, or personality." -yardhippie
"Fight the air, and the air will kick your ass!!! "-Specialkaye

[popsjumper 2]

Include her in your social life?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[PikzeeVikzen 0]

I think the best thing you could do for her is take her out to dinner and just spend time with her without talking about her depression. Try to be a distraction so she can get thru the fog and see the beauty in life again. Maybe find out something she's never done but always wanted to and help her do it. Get her away from her element so that she isn't closed off from the world with her bottle of wine.

I don't know if I'm making any sense. I lost my father to suicide and I'm just trying to imagine the things I could have done to stop it. I think the most important thing is not to let the depression define her in your eyes so that she can see that there is more to her.

I'm the twist that turns your key....

[Nightingale 0]

First off: You are not a doctor, and your friend's mental well being is not your responsibility. If something happens to her, it is not your fault. You are doing everything you can.

Second: In-patient care can really help sometimes, because the patient can be supervised and prevented from harming themselves until the proper combination of meds can be found. Her family is not capable of supervising her constantly, and it's not the job of her friends. If her therapist/doctor advises inpatient care, there's a good chance it's in her best interest.

Depression is a physical illness, not some kind of emotional issue that can be solved with happy thoughts and exercise. Often, it's caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that results in mood disorders, and can be treated successfully with medications that work within the body to correct the imbalances. There's nothing wrong with going into a hospital for medical treatment, whether the disease is cancer or depression, especially because, like cancer, treatment for depression can often be trial and error and a matter of finding the right drug at the right dosage.

[PikzeeVikzen 0]

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First off: You are not a doctor, and your friend's mental well being is not your responsibility. If something happens to her, it is not your fault. You are doing everything you can.

Second: In-patient care can really help sometimes, because the patient can be supervised and prevented from harming themselves until the proper combination of meds can be found. Her family is not capable of supervising her constantly, and it's not the job of her friends. If her therapist/doctor advises inpatient care, there's a good chance it's in her best interest.

Depression is a physical illness, not some kind of emotional issue that can be solved with happy thoughts and exercise. Often, it's caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that results in mood disorders, and can be treated successfully with medications that work within the body to correct the imbalances. There's nothing wrong with going into a hospital for medical treatment, whether the disease is cancer or depression, especially because, like cancer, treatment for depression can often be trial and error and a matter of finding the right drug at the right dosage.

I agree with you 100% but sometimes it's not from a chemical imbalance at all. Some people fall into a deep depression just from being "stuck in a rut" or something like that. I'm not trying to argue with you (I swear). People can be depressed without that but often times it's a result of a chemical imbalance or something similar.

I'm the twist that turns your key....

[Nightingale 0]

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I don't know if I'm making any sense. I lost my father to suicide and I'm just trying to imagine the things I could have done to stop it.

There wasn't anything else you could've done. You acted with the information you had at the time and made the best choices you could. In hindsight, you may ask "why didn't I do this...?" but with the information you had, you didn't know, and if you had to do it over again with the exact same information, you'd make the same choices. Your father's suicide was not your fault, and there was no way you could possibly have prevented something you didn't know was going to happen.

[livendive 8]

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Depression is a physical illness, not some kind of emotional issue that can be solved with happy thoughts and exercise. Often, it's caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that results in mood disorders, and can be treated successfully with medications that work within the body to correct the imbalances.

Note: Exercise can sometimes help correct said chemical imbalances.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Blindpost 0]

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I think the best thing you could do for her is take her out to dinner and just spend time with her without talking about her depression. Try to be a distraction so she can get thru the fog and see the beauty in life again. Maybe find out something she's never done but always wanted to and help her do it. Get her away from her element so that she isn't closed off from the world with her bottle of wine.

I don't know if I'm making any sense. I lost my father to suicide and I'm just trying to imagine the things I could have done to stop it. I think the most important thing is not to let the depression define her in your eyes so that she can see that there is more to her.

I am going to read through that again right before I leave the house tomorrow; that is some incredible advice!

I was thinking back to our last brunch together and I was wrestling with 'Did I seem concerned enough? Did it seem like I brushed off her pain? Or did she just need to be with me for awhile -her little buddy from 6th grade?' I think I did it right. She wrote to me after that brunch and told me that it was great to remember why we had become such good friends...

I just don't ever want her to think that I don't take her pain seriously -she is one of the only people that knows the horrible road I tread when I was 15. I took charge at the last minute and found somebody to help me back out of my mistake. I don't know how depressed people seem to know that about me -honestly, I have told NO ONE, except for her, yet depressed people seem to confide in me for some reason. Sometimes I think I have helped. Sometimes, obviously, I didn't. I have lost too many friends to suicide.

I am sorry to hear about your dad. It sounds like you are still harboring some small amount of resentment towards yourself over that; remember that we can't hold ourselves accountable for someone else's decision. As I mentioned, unfortunately I know that burden too well.

And I need to remember to take my own advice sometimes.

[Nightingale 0]

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I agree with you 100% but sometimes it's not from a chemical imbalance at all. Some people fall into a deep depression just from being "stuck in a rut" or something like that. I'm not trying to argue with you (I swear). People can be depressed without that but often times it's a result of a chemical imbalance or something similar.

Sure, people can be depressed without brain chemistry issues, but it's usually temporary. Someone with normal brain chemistry can usually pull themselves out of a rut. Someone without normal brain chemistry has trouble, and remains stuck. Some articles have identified traumatic experiences as a possible trigger for alterations in brain chemistry, along with biolology and genetics.

From Vanderbilt.edu

Study finds brain chemical cycles get ‘stuck’ in depression

May 27, 2005



Ronald Salomon, M.D., has produced a more complete view of brain chemicals and how their shifting levels relate to depression.

by Clinton Colmenares
Scientists have studied serotonin and dopamine and their roles in depression for decades, taking snapshots of the chemicals as they ebbed and flowed. But the pictures never completely told the entire story; they never showed changes in the chemicals' levels.

Ronald Salomon, M.D., associate professor of Psychiatry, literally tapped into people with depression. By gathering spinal fluid via catheters every 10 minutes over a 24-hour period, he revealed a more complete view of the waves of brain chemicals that push and pull the disease. The fluids were collected during a depressive episode and again after five weeks of antidepressant medication, and showed that brain chemical levels don't rise and fall normally in the disease — they're “stuck.”

Dopamine, generally, activates instinctual behaviors, is involved in cravings, addictions and reward systems and has a role in independent, goal-oriented behaviors. Serotonin fuels calm, sedate moods, decreases impulsive behaviors and assists with socializing. Dopamine and serotonin typically flow and fluctuate independently, balancing each other over time.

But Salomon found that in people with untreated depression the two chemicals often flow together with less variability than normal, and fail to respond independently. This lack of chemical variability, he says, may explain why people with depression get "stuck" in extremes of moods or behaviors — sleeping too much or not enough, eating ravenously or poorly, ruminating continuously or going blank for long periods. The findings were published in the journals Neuropsychopharmacology and Disease Markers.

Most physicians think of the chemicals controlling depression and moods as a constant current accessible with the flick of a switch, Salomon says. "It's as if a steady chemical supply is there, and if (someone) decides to use that energy there's some volitional decision to say, 'OK, I'm going to Baskin-Robbins for ice cream, even if my brain chemistry wants me to nap.'

"The answer is 'no.' If the person feels like taking a nap, the chemistry won't be easily ignored. That feeling is not just a matter of volition, it's a matter of chemistry," Salomon said. The same is true of the sadness and other symptoms of depression.

Healthy people have feelings that change rapidly, over just a few minutes, because the chemical levels change all the time. So, bad feelings quickly give way to normal feelings. But people with depression don't cycle normally. "If they're not feeling the energy now, they're not going to feel the energy in 10 minutes or in an hour or even in three hours. They're going to feel stuck."

[Nightingale 0]

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Note: Exercise can sometimes help correct said chemical imbalances.

Blues,
Dave

You're absolutely right. Exercise causes an increase in serotonin levels and can help correct an imbalance, but if the imbalance is severe, exercise is often insufficient.

[Blindpost 0]

Your whole post was very good, but I think I am going to add this part specifically into my 'plan' of what I'm going to say to her tomorrow:

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There's nothing wrong with going into a hospital for medical treatment, whether the disease is cancer or depression, especially because, like cancer, treatment for depression can often be trial and error and a matter of finding the right drug at the right dosage.

Thank you

[PikzeeVikzen 0]

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Note: Exercise can sometimes help correct said chemical imbalances.

Blues,
Dave

You're absolutely right. Exercise causes an increase in serotonin levels and can help correct an imbalance, but if the imbalance is severe, exercise is often insufficient.

What along with exercise can be done to help with serotonin levels? I've got issues with mine (inherited is the theory) and none of the "typical" medications work. Exercise helps some (unless you have a broken tailbone) but is there anything else natural that helps? I've tried 5-htp before but I'm not exactly sure how it's supposed to be taken and I get conflicting answers from the net.

I'm the twist that turns your key....

[Blindpost 0]

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Note: Exercise can sometimes help correct said chemical imbalances.

Blues,
Dave

You're absolutely right. Exercise causes an increase in serotonin levels and can help correct an imbalance, but if the imbalance is severe, exercise is often insufficient.

Regular exercise was part of her recommended therapy -along with the puppy, and the medications, and the psychotherapy.

I'm really going to try to get her involved in a hobby or sport to add to this. In some cases, the more people you feel you are accountable to, the less likely you are to feel that nobody would be harmed if you 'slip away'. -That's not a doctor's study, that is just what I have observed in the real world, in some cases.

Additionally, a hobby or sport gives you a goal, and having a goal -whether that be to submit one of your original works of art to a group of friends or competition, or to run a marathon, often can help people persevere through the 'low' spots.

[Nightingale 0]

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What along with exercise can be done to help with serotonin levels? I've got issues with mine (inherited is the theory) and none of the "typical" medications work. Exercise helps some (unless you have a broken tailbone) but is there anything else natural that helps? I've tried 5-htp before but I'm not exactly sure how it's supposed to be taken and I get conflicting answers from the net.

Don't ask me, ask your doctor. I'm just passing along stuff I learned from friends with depression.

[PikzeeVikzen 0]

Been working on it for years. Just looking for some other thoughts.

I'm the twist that turns your key....

[Blindpost 0]

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Include her in your social life?

I don't have a whole lot of 'social life'. I have my own family to take care of. The two of us are going to lunch and to see Pirates III tomorrow, though.
Your idea would be wonderful if I myself had a social life worth bringing her into, but 'Hey, want go sit in McDonald's playland until my kids finally get kicked out by management' doesn't usually turn on my single girlfriends.

[Blindpost 0]

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Quote

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Note: Exercise can sometimes help correct said chemical imbalances.

Blues,
Dave

You're absolutely right. Exercise causes an increase in serotonin levels and can help correct an imbalance, but if the imbalance is severe, exercise is often insufficient.

What along with exercise can be done to help with serotonin levels? I've got issues with mine (inherited is the theory) and none of the "typical" medications work. Exercise helps some (unless you have a broken tailbone) but is there anything else natural that helps? I've tried 5-htp before but I'm not exactly sure how it's supposed to be taken and I get conflicting answers from the net.

You may want to do some reading on DHEA. It is a supplement that is usually readily available in most health food stores/GNc type stores.

Personally I don't feel any different on it, by my doc suggested it for adrenal support, and I think I recall reading how it helps boost serotonin production. -Check around on the internet to see if it has been shown to help in that area.

[Shotgun 1]

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Depression is a physical illness, not some kind of emotional issue that can be solved with happy thoughts and exercise. Often, it's caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain that results in mood disorders, and can be treated successfully with medications that work within the body to correct the imbalances.

Actually, I think that exercise is one of the best antidepressants, and it can affect your brain chemistry when used regularly. The problem is finding the motivation to exercise when suffering from depression. A realistic and attainable goal such as going for a 20-minute walk three times per week can make it easier to find the motivation (this has helped me in the past). A nutritionist may be able to help as well because a bad diet certainly doesn't help with depression.

And my personal experience is that "happy thoughts" or guided visualization (or something along those lines) can help as well. There is a really good classic therapy book called "A Guide to Rational Living" by Albert Ellis and Robert Harper, which is all about changing your thoughts in order to combat depression (another thing that has helped me a great deal). But again, finding the motivation to read is difficult when you are depressed.

Also, she may want to consider changing therapists if the therapy is not working so well. Not all therapists are good at what they do, and it's also a very personal thing, so it may be a matter of finding the right person who can help her. I would personally steer clear of anyone who was too quick to prescribe meds, but that's just me... I've rarely seen meds really work for anyone, and I think that they should be a last resort.

There is a lot of modern therapy that is based on the work of Albert Ellis (the author of the book I mentioned). These therapists would probably be listed as cognitive-behavior therapists or something like that. I personally have found this type of therapy to be very helpful.

[Blindpost 0]

This is very true. A severely depressed person has a hard time attempting to do things that might help them out of their own depression. It's a horrible spiral.

I am a big fan of behavior modification with affirmations, and directed thought process to control or lessen some of the symptoms of depression and OCD.
It is no easy task, seizing control of your own thoughts.

[racer42 0]

"She will NOT find friends in her bedroom with a bottle of wine and pills. "

Start here.

L.A.S.T. #24
Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team
Electric Toaster #3
Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor
Co-Founder Team Happy Sock

[Blindpost 0]

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I am trying to be what they need me to be -a friend.

And thats all they will ever need....a friend. Everyone seeks comfort in their peers. You are doing good right now by jsut being there for her. She is seeking professional help...let them help her..thats what they are there for. You...should be there for the comforting and letting them know that they will always have someone to talk to and do things with. IMO you are doing what you should be doing!

Good to hear, I certainly hope so...

[skydiverbry 0]

Be a friend,try as hard as you can to show her the beuaty in life. Natur,walk in the wood quite time together. Share your heart with her,people then began to share themselves with you.
I've been there,regardless of the outcome it will be worth it.
Best Luck,if you want me to share more or think I can help PLEASE PM me
Bryan

--------------------------------------------------
Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional!!

D.S.#13(Dudeist Skdiver)

[wmw999 2,114]

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Your idea would be wonderful if I myself had a social life worth bringing her into, but 'Hey, want go sit in McDonald's playland until my kids finally get kicked out by management' doesn't usually turn on my single girlfriends.

Ah, but if she's just a friend, this might well be just fine periodically. Remember, you're not trying to impress her. If she's your friend, and you're her friend, that's the healthiest thing. And sometimes friends do dorky things together.

I don't know if you have a spouse/SO, but if so, make sure he knows the nature of the relationship. Having to sever it all of a sudden "because she's getting you down" would not be a good thing. But take care of yourself. You are your primary responsibility...

You're a good friend.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[warpedskydiver 0]

She eeds positive changes in her life and probably sees herself in a downward spiral.

Thinking forward can help.

Try going back to school, she can earn more and do things for herself and kids.

Changes of scenery, easy to be depressed sitting at home.

Teach her to actually have fun, without having a SO