funjumper101 15 #1 July 27, 2006 Is this a good canopy for a newly graduated AFF student that weighs 175lbs? What are the flight characteristics like? Any issues, good or bad? Thanks for the info. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packing_jarrett 0 #2 July 27, 2006 I'm not an instructor but I would say yes if he's loading it 1lb to 1 sqft. Talk to the instructors.Na' Cho' Cheese Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hayfield 0 #3 July 28, 2006 i fly a pd 190 (has 128 jumps), with about 190 out the door, for the last few jumps (starting at jump 27-finally on my gear). I've flown a safire2 and navigators prior to this. My pd flies ok-quite responsive to toggle inputs, but doesnt stall as smoothly as a stundent canopy. It is not difficult to land. Basically, I like it! But, as my jump numbers might indicate-I still got a lot to learn!"Remember the First Commandment: Don't Fuck Up!" -Crusty Old Pete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slurp56 0 #4 July 28, 2006 QuoteIs this a good canopy for a newly graduated AFF student that weighs 175lbs? What are the flight characteristics like? Any issues, good or bad? Thanks for the info. You can't always base a canopy decision off of numbers alone. What does he fly now? How does he land? Does he like flying it? Is he picking it up fast? What direction does he intend to go? Is he looking for performance or just a ride to the ground? And for flight characteristics, what PD 190 is he considering? Look at PD's website, they've done a phenominal job documenting their canopies and publishing flight characteristic documents.________________________________________ I have proof-read this post 500 times, but I guarantee you'll still manage to find a flaw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sgm 0 #5 July 28, 2006 According to PD they recommend for a PD190 :- Student N/R Novice 123.5 lbs max Intermediate 133lbs max Advanced 190lbs max Looking at the chart a PD260 would be required allowing for gear etc. Interesting I thought? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingbunky 3 #6 July 28, 2006 in my own humble 150 jump wonder experience, i think that pd is erring on the side of caution with their recomendations. my first rig had a sabre 190 in it, and i (and instructors) had no problems with me jumping it. after the fact, i looked at pd's chart and they didn't even recommend it for an advanced person with my 225 exit weight, even though i was well within the max loading for the canopy. i can see where they're coming from from a safety/liability standpoint, but almost everyone exceeds the numbers in that chart. this is my own experience, your mileage may vary, check with your instructors, etc, etc."Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart." MB4252 TDS699 killing threads since 2001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #7 July 28, 2006 I used to jump 2 PD190s after I got off student status at about 170 out of the door. One was a nice canopy to learn on - opened nicely and easy to pack. It also flew really well in brakes for accuracy approaches or long spots up wind. The other was a hateful thing - it had a load more jumps on it and you used to need to take at least 1 wrap of the brake lines to get a flare out of it. It was finally retired after injuring a number of jumpers on landing. Edit: Personally though, I would have been bored of the flight characteristics of it by 200 jumps though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strange 0 #8 July 28, 2006 Hey , Mr. Burfel. did you sell the PC with harness, ole pig rig and reserve? I didn't recieve an answer to my inquiery about the deal in the classifieds. So, how about it? Strange Dave [email protected] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #9 July 28, 2006 Hey every one. I am the student in question. I weigh more around 170. I have been flying a hornet 210 and consistently. I can flat turn, and I have started learning how the flare turn as well. My major concern was this being an f111 canopy of older vintage. Most of its life was spent indoors and properly stored, not being jumped. It has very low, although unknown number of jumps >200. I know it is going to fly differently than my student gear. I know it is going to flare differently. My only concern is that ***IF*** I flew it right I could get a flare out of it that is good enough to safely land. I want something that can land safely if I fly it right. Obviously I can take that hornet 210 and femur in, being zp isn't going to save my life, using my brain and flying properly is what is going to save me. I called PD and they were awesome about talking to me but didn't really confirm or deny and of my thoughts. They told me at the time the canopy was made it was considered a high performance canopy. I am sure that if my current hornet was around back then it would have been considered high performance too, and I would have been given something bigger than 210. They told me a pd260 or a pd300 was given to students back then. I understand why, but today that just doesn't sound right to me lol. I have half the people at my DZ telling me that f111 isn't worth my trouble, and the other half saying the jumped f111 for the longest time. (they have however switched over to zp). "The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudi 0 #10 July 30, 2006 The best way to know if a canopy is right for you is to test jump it. Opinions on canopy choice are extremely subjective. We compare a given canopy to what we are familiar with. We have different goals. We have different preferences. I may be perfectly happy putting up with x to acheive y and you may not. That's why asking for opinions on gear is somewhat like asking what car to buy. Some people really love manual transmissions... QuoteMy major concern was this being an f111 canopy of older vintage. PD Reserves could fall within this description, but they are quite possibly the best reserve canopies available. (I'm a little biased, of course) You're right to be "concerned" about an F-111 type canopy though. There's nothing wrong with that material, but it does have a major influence on the size you should try and it has a shorter life span. F-111 type canopies can be great and keep you happy for quite some time. Just keep in mind that you will experience a quicker descent from this more permeable material and it will slowly lose its performance and flare power as you put jumps on it. It will simply become more "porous" over time (meaning "use"). It will see retirement much sooner than a similar canopy made of all zero-p material or one that combines the two. I've not jumped either the Hornet or the original PD canopies, so I can't offer any opinions to you regarding how you will like the canopy's characteristics. My frame of reference comes from completely different canopies. Quote[PD] told me a pd260 or a pd300 was given to students back then. I understand why, but today that just doesn't sound right to me lol. When these canopies were designed, small canopies were practically unheard of. A 170 was "hot shit." Times have changed, but large, lightly loaded canopies are still recommended for students/beginners. The max. recommended wing loading chart on this canopy and for hybrids (Navigator and Silhouette) may seem ridiculously conservative, but they really aren't. The charts were created with the canopy's intended performance and tolerance for wing loading in mind. By "tolerance," I'm not saying PD thinks they will blow up or anything, just that they will begin to perform much differently from how they were originally designed to perform as wing loading increases. As wing loading is added, the more experience and skill is needed to pilot them safely (that's why the charts have defined experience levels as the wing loading goes up). If 170 is your exit weight (your body weight + gear), then a 190 in all zp, a larger hybrid, or a larger F-111 type are probably better choices. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sgm 0 #11 July 30, 2006 Curiosity has the better of me and I have to ask. Doug, what does YOUR instructor think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #12 July 30, 2006 The general consensus was that if I was going to get something that was f111, I should get something bigger. I am going to be keeping my eye out for rigs with mains in the 190-210 range, but something that is ZP and a little newer. I decided to pass on the deal but it sounds like Roy will have no problem selling it to some one else. Who ever gets it from him will be lucky, he is awesome person to deal with!! Thanks for all the advice!!!"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funjumper101 15 #13 July 31, 2006 QuoteThe general consensus was that if I was going to get something that was f111, I should get something bigger. I am going to be keeping my eye out for rigs with mains in the 190-210 range, but something that is ZP and a little newer. I decided to pass on the deal but it sounds like Roy will have no problem selling it to some one else. Who ever gets it from him will be lucky, he is awesome person to deal with!! Thanks for all the advice!!! Thanks for the compliment. You deserve kudos for being a careful shopper and asking around for good advice. Keep listening and learning. You'll do just fine. I always figured that adulthood begins when you start learning from other people's bad experiences, instead of your own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
