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BillyVance

Did the flight attendant go too far?

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I saw something different here. the kid was not misbehaving. He was just being a squirmy kid. And they did the appropriate thing. they removed him from a situation that could have turned into a temper tantrum.

I suspect that the producers and the mother thought that it would be to her advantage to have the kid on the show, to show what a nice calm kid he was. It backfired on them.

I don't know of many people, with a sense of self respect, that wouldn't be embarrassed to have their kid act like that in a highly visible situation.

I honestly doubt that the mother, up until now, gave a flip about disiplining her child.

This nonsense about the child only being 18 months old is BS. Children learn very quickly, within a couple of months, how to manipulate others to get what they want. I know that it is not a conscious thought, but it is still a thought process. If they can figure this out on their own, they can surely be taught to sit quietly for six minutes, upon demand.

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Are we looking at the same video?

Probably so, just through different eyes.

It is the one where Chris Quamo comes into to cajole the kid, and that lasts about 15 seconds, then Diane tries to throw a pass to Chris with the football, and they give the kid a toy airplane and he shoves it off of the table. He was just waving bye bye to the airplane.;) That one.

I imagine Chris and Diane knew the thing was going downhill fast, by show standards. It wasn't the Art Linkletter Show.

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I imagine Chris and Diane knew the thing was going downhill fast



Exactly. They knew as soon as her kid threw a tantrum and illustrated exactly how incapable the Mother was in controlling him, her entire 'I'm a victim' plea would be moot.
____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

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To all those in support of the mother, if instead of a 2 year old, it had been a dog, you all would have been pissed off at the inability of the owner to control it.

A 2 year old is a hell of alot smarter than a dog.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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I thought he was just squirmy. kids shove things away. a mom handed him over when he got too squirmy.

The point is that she obviously has not spent much time in the authority/discipline department. It was only a six minute interview, her six minutes of fame to show what an angel the kid was. He blew it for her.

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I saw the mom on tv this morning. She said she was trying to distract the child during the flight attendant's safety speech. She also added that when the flight attendant told the pilot to turn the plane around, that many passengers told the FA the baby was not bothering them and that they should move on. Mom thinks it then turned into an ego thing for the FA.

She also said they used another airline to return home. On that flight, the child actually did throw a temper tantrum, which I can understand after all they had been through that day. She said the FA's on that flight immediately offered juice and crackers to the boy, he calmed down and went to sleep.

The FA should be reprimanded. It's never appropriate to seriously suggest giving a toddler medicine just to shut them up.



Ah, so the trick is to slip the benadryl in the juice ...got it! :)
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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

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I thought he was just squirmy. kids shove things away. a mom handed him over when he got too squirmy.

The point is that she obviously has not spent much time in the authority/discipline department. It was only a six minute interview, her six minutes of fame to show what an angel the kid was. He blew it for her.


If he were yours, i would suppose that you would be demanding me to prescribe him Ritalin:S This kid was not out of control.

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So if I'm in a restaurant and someone has their kid with them and the kid shits in his diapers, making the whole restaurant smell like a sewer, then it's ok because the kid was doing something normal for his development stage?

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The parent should change the diaper.



And then give it to Walt to take pictures of so he can post them here:o:ph34r:

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This nonsense about the child only being 18 months old is BS. Children learn very quickly, within a couple of months, how to manipulate others to get what they want. I know that it is not a conscious thought, but it is still a thought process. If they can figure this out on their own, they can surely be taught to sit quietly for six minutes, upon demand.



Bullshit. Not at 18 months. And if you ever have kids, you'll see.





You Cannot Spoil Your Newborn

Bell and Ainsworth focused on twenty-six middle-class infant-mother pairs. Data were gathered by observing these mothers and children at home. First, observers confirmed that all infants have some crying spells. They noted the number of crying episodes that a mother ignored, the number she responded to, the length of time it took her to respond, what kind of response she made, and the overall effectiveness of her response. Picking up the baby and holding him proved to be the most effective way to terminate crying. Talking to him or gesturing at him from a distance was the least effective.

Bell and Ainsworth observed that, during the first few months, some mothers were deliberately unresponsive when their babies cried because they feared they might spoil their babies. Data over an entire year, however, showed that mothers who consistently and promptly responded to their infant's crying were rewarded at the age of one year with infants who cried less frequently, and for shorter durations, than those infants whose mothers ignored crying or delayed responding.

The authors of the study concluded, therefore, that infant crying is so disagreeable or "changeworthy" to adults that it probably serves a useful evolutionary function. They added that infant crying should be viewed as an "attachment" or "proximity-promoting" behavior because most often it served to bring a parent closer to a child. Furthermore, Bell and Ainsworth acknowledged the extreme difficulty of a mother or father ignoring a baby's crying. They recommended that a mother not struggle to overcome the natural impulse to comfort her crying child. An infant less than three months of age is, according to their study, at no risk of being spoiled.

The conclusion of this study is similar to others that suggest that conditioning or training an infant is extremely difficult even in a carefully controlled laboratory environment. Spoiling, after all, is simply encouraging an undesirable behavior. But babies under a few months of age cannot "learn" a crying habit because they are not neurologically mature enough (neurological maturity is a necessary precursor to what later becomes psychological development). After all, at three weeks of age a baby is not even neurologically mature enough to learn to smile specifically at her mother. This suggests that it takes time for a baby's brain to develop before it can recognize you and respond to this recognition (and melt your heart with her fantastic smile). Specific social smiling at parents normally develops at about six weeks (in premature deliveries, this occurs at about six weeks after the expected date of delivery). The logic follows: If you cannot teach a baby to smile before she is neurologically ready, why assume you can teach her to cry? Actually, during the first several weeks of life, babies do smile when they are asleep. But this is not a socially responsive smile. Interestingly, they can cry when they are asleep as well.

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I could comb the web all day long to find articles about age appropriate discipline and when they can internalize control, etc. Here is one very small example. Point is-- I speak from experience. I have four children aged 18, 15, 13 and 19 months. All well-behaved and respectful. I have read many books on discipline as well as consulted pediatricians and psychologists for my own knowledge. I am in no way condoning parents who let their kids run wild or parents who don't discipline. I think not setting limits does the child a severe disservice. But to suggest that a child at 18 months can "sit still" on command is just ridiculous. And on that note, I am out because you can't argue with some of the logic I've read in this thread. Have a wonderful weekend and may you have quiet flights. :):P


http://makinghealthyfamilies.com/qa28.htm


QUESTION: My husband and I are confused on proper discipline for our 18 month old daughter. Do you have any guidelines that you can give to us. We don't want to be too strict yet she needs some limits.

ANSWER: You are right to be seeking to define "limits" rather than "discipline" at this age. Eighteen months is too young to respond to discipline which implies that a child can internalize control. Setting limits however is a precursor to discipline and involves immediate consequences that in some way removes the child from an ability to pursue an inappropriate activity.
Limits are passively set (without provocation) when you place safety latches on cabinets to protect children from poisons or other dangerous elements around the house. Active limit setting is a response to young toddlers inappropriate and often painful actions, such as hitting others with heavy objects (metal or wooden toys) or throwing objects that may break.

Children of this age often throw objects, laughing at the impact on their "victims" not because they want to hurt but because they are experimenting with their ability to affect their world. It is necessary for parents to take objects away when they are thrown, saying "no" clearly. This is a simple form of limit setting which helps the child to learn by consequence, rather than internal control.

Removing the object will need to be repeated many times. Sometimes the child may seem to have "gotten over" throwing the object only to return to it a couple of weeks later. But sooner or later, the act of setting limits sinks in and young children tend towards cooperating with the rules, whether it be to not throw food during dinner or refrain from pouring the dirt from a houseplant onto the floor.

Follow your instincts in setting safe and healthy limits. It is unlikely that you will be overly strict, since your awareness in asking this question indicates sensitivity and atunement to your child's development. Your toddler is fortunate to have parents like yourself who seek an appropriate balance!

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"you need to shut your child up"? :o[:/]

Right from the get go it sounded like the flight attendant is some low class low IQ cunt!

Even if the child was being a total disturbance, and I don't think he was in the least bit, you need to act with professionalism.



Yep, she needs to work for Cuntinental Day Care Services.
Y yo, pa' vivir con miedo, prefiero morir sonriendo, con el recuerdo vivo".
- Ruben Blades, "Adan Garcia"

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watching this video without audio, it appears the kid is squirming and being annoying, and the mother doesn't do anything to stop him.

i'd bet the FA was having a bad day, and the thought of this misbehaving kid on a flight was just too much. I'd probably do the same.

MB 3528, RB 1182

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when are we going to start banning black people from drop zones? asians? anybody else we don't like so we can create our own perfect environments????

:S

welcome to planet earth people...it aint all nice and perfect.;)



Does it upset you that people can't take their kids to bars or porno shops?

Dropzones are an *adult* playground and at many dropzones there are *adult* activities that take place--particularly after sunset. It's about *age*, not skin color or religion or anything else.

Also, if a jumper brings their kid(s) to the dropzone, leaving the kid(s) on the ground while they jump, who is supervising them? Jumpers have thousands of dollars with of lifesaving equipment laying around and don't want anyone tampering with it.

Walt

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