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BillyVance

Did the flight attendant go too far?

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That said, when talking about tantrums, I think several people here are dodging responsibility. Now I've only had one child, but teaching her that screaming was not an effective method for communicating was pretty easy





Tantrums In Toddlers

by Dr. Benjamin Spock
reviewed by Robert Needlman, M.D., F.A.A.P.
Although many people think of tantrums as part of the "terrible twos," many children start having them between 10 and 24 months of age.

They're developing a sense of their own desires and individuality. When they're thwarted, they know it and feel angry. Yet they don't usually attack the parent who has interfered with them. Perhaps the grown-up is too important and too big.

When the feeling of fury boils up in them, they can't think of anything better to do than take it out on the floor and themselves. They flop down, yelling, and pound with their hands and feet and maybe their head.

Avoiding tantrums
A temper tantrum once in a while doesn't mean anything. A toddler is bound to be frustrated sometimes.

A surprising number of tantrums are a result of fatigue or hunger, or of putting a child into a situation that exceeds his capabilities. (Most shopping mall tantrums fall into this category.)

For this sort of tantrum, focus on the underlying problem, rather than whatever minor frustration set the tantrum off: "You're tired and hungry, aren't you? Let's get you home and fed and to bed, and you'll feel a lot better."

Even frequent tantrums can be easy to fix. Ask yourself the following questions:

• Does she have plenty of chance to play freely outdoors?

• Are there things for her to push and pull and climb on there?

• Indoors, has she enough toys and household objects to play with, and is the house childproofed?

• Do you "set her up" by scheduling demanding activities (such as grocery shopping) at a time when she is likely to be hungry or tired?

• When you see a storm brewing, do you meet it head-on, grimly, or do you distract her to something else?

What to do when the storm breaks
It isn't possible to dodge every tantrum. When the storm breaks, try to take it casually and help your child to get it over. You certainly don't want to give in and meekly let the child have her way. Otherwise, she'd be throwing tantrums all the time on purpose.

Don't argue with her, because she's in no mood to see the error of her ways. Getting angry yourself only forces her to keep up her end of the row. Give her a graceful way out.

One child cools off quickest if the parents fade away and go about their own business matter-of-factly, as if they can't be bothered. Another with more determination and pride sticks to her yelling and thrashing for an hour unless her parents make a friendly gesture. They might pop in with a suggestion of something fun to do, and a hug to show they want to make up, as soon as the worst of the storm has passed.

It's embarrassing to have a child put on a tantrum on a busy sidewalk. Pick her up, with a grin if you can force it, and lug her off to a quiet spot where you can both cool off in private.

Pay attention to your own feelings
Tantrums in a toddler should be an annoyance, nothing more. You can't really control your child's emotions during a tantrum, but you should feel well in control of your own.

You can't make your child stop, but you should feel confident that you can keep her safe during the tantrum, and carry on with life afterward. If you find that the tantrums leave you feeling angry, ashamed, worried, or shaken, or if you fear you might "lose it" and hurt your child, by all means talk with your child's doctor, or your own.




So yes, there are definitely things you can do to try and avoid them but they can still happen. The child on the plane wasn't having a tantrum though. In fact, after waiting 11 hours for his flight he seemed to be doing great.





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It started when we instituted a bedtime when she was about 12 weeks old. The first night she screamed for 45 minutes till she was worn out. The second night she didn't quite make half an hour. The third she lasted 10 minutes, and the fourth & fifth less than a minute.




And some might say she stopped crying because she knew no one would come for her. Babies at 12 weeks still need to be fed a couple of times a night. I responded to all of my sons cries as a newborn which are different from a toddler throwing a tantrum.( Not trying to say what you did is wrong or what I did is wrong--different parenting philosophy is all.) He rarely has a tantrum. Usually it is in the car seat when we've been traveling for hours and he's sick of it but then no one else has to hear it but me anyway.B|

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Now I've only had one child, but teaching her that screaming was not an effective method for communicating was pretty easy.



Seems you and I had the same experience.

By the time the Child is 18 months, Behavior patterns have already been firmly established. IF the Mother truly believes she cant do something about a misbehaving child, Then the Mother is the Problem.

The article makes it sound as if the Mother Never even attempted to make the child stop. (I would guess this is what really irritated the FA) just said there is nothing I can do.

First the mother could have asked the child be quiet. If that didnt work she could have Told the child to be quiet. (And those that dont think a Mother can get an 18 mth old to listen, Clearly never met my Mother!!) and it can be done with TONE of voice as well.

I traveled with my daughter many times when she was very young. Had she ever misbehaved and not responded to me, I would THANKED the FA for allowing me to get off that plane so that I could properly discipline my child. (And for the record, I only had to Spank my daughter once in 15 years (She was 3 at that time and “Discussing” something with a 3 year old is not something I do).. But never once did she think even for a minute that I would not do it again if necessary).

This Child needs to taught RIGHT NOW at 18 Months exactly what type of behavior is acceptable. Talking constantly, Repeating the same phrase over and over and over again DURING A SAFETY BREIFING.. Is NOT acceptable behavior. The problem here appears to be that this mother thought it was and chose to do nothing about it. At that point the only think the FA could do is have them removed.

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The scariest thing about this thread is finding out that, if I had kids, I'd let Jay babysit because he has the right idea about things.

Now if my kid was a 20 year old daughter (I'll be 41 next month, so very possible) with big ole hooters-he wouldn't get within 200 feet without dodging lead:)

I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried

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The scariest thing about this thread is finding out that, if I had kids, I'd let Jay babysit because he has the right idea about things.

Now if my kid was a 20 year old daughter (I'll be 41 next month, so very possible) with big ole hooters-he wouldn't get within 200 feet without dodging lead:)



+1
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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First the mother could have asked the child be quiet. If that didnt work she could have Told the child to be quiet. (And those that dont think a Mother can get an 18 mth old to listen, Clearly never met my Mother!!) and it can be done with TONE of voice as well.

I traveled with my daughter many times when she was very young. Had she ever misbehaved and not responded to me, I would THANKED the FA for allowing me to get off that plane so that I could properly discipline my child. (And for the record, I only had to Spank my daughter once in 15 years (She was 3 at that time and “Discussing” something with a 3 year old is not something I do).. But never once did she think even for a minute that I would not do it again if necessary).



Absolutely agree on the tone of voice thing as well as the spankings. I never had to spank my daughter. I did slap her hand once, as she was reaching up toward a pot on the hot stove, but that was it. Still, she took me more seriously than she ever took her mother, who DID actually spank her on occasion. Funniest thing...one day when she was about 3, her mom called me and asked me to come over because Jackie refuse to pick up her toys. She only lived a block and a half away, so over I went. I walked in to find her sitting on the floor of the living room, in some distress, and her mom looking exasperated on the couch. I said,
"Jacqueline, I understand your mom asked you to clean your room and you don't want to. Is that right?"
She looked down and said in a pretty quiet voice, "Yes".
I said, "You know you have to do what your mom says?"
Again..."Yes".
"Well then get up off the floor, go in your room, and pick up your toys...nowvoice>."
"But..."
She then stood up and marched to her room, lower lip leading the way, and three emphatic steps/stomps were accompanied by "Shit...shit...shit!"

She must have gotten that from her mom, because I was quite careful about my language around her. :P I absolutely knew it was wrong, but it still took every bit of self-control I possess to not fall on the floor laughing. :D:D:D It took a good five minutes before I could re-muster the dad voice to talk to her about why that word was not allowed. Yes, such a delay was ill-advised, but it was hilarious and I couldn't risk her seeing me laugh while trying to scold her! :S:D

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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Now if my kid was a 20 year old daughter (I'll be 41 next month, so very possible) with big ole hooters-he wouldn't get within 200 feet without dodging lead:)



It's not just Jay, it's skydivers in general. My daughter will be 19 next week. She's blonde and *far* more likely to have a boob reduction some day than to get implants. As a result, she's only allowed at the DZ if I'm there, and even that scares me for reasons other than the normal possibility of being "seriously injured or killed." :SB|:D

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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So the lady sat in the seat with the kid screaming and doing what kids do to get out of being held, all probably because the kid knew we had stopped and wanted off the damn plane.

It's not poor parenting, it's not bad kids, it's just kids.
Yes it's annoying, whoop dee doo. Lots of things are annoying.



A kid who has learned that screaming gets them nothing more than a sore throat doesn't tend to scream (except possibly in pain, as you and normiss both correctly pointed out regarding pressurization). Yes, I think a parent who can't control their children is doing a poor job. Sure, there are exceptions for pain, and many will experience isolated incidents regardless, but if the child normally screams and kicks when not getting their way, it's almost assuredly the parents' fault.

Blues,
Dave



We were on a 2.5 hour flight to Boston last week and a one year old in the seat in front of us screamed so loud for the entire flight. 2 hours into the flight, the mom FINALLY pulled out the benadryl. You'd think her throat would've been sore from screaming nonstop for 2+ hours, but that baby had a healthy set of lungs. It was a full flight so none of us could move. Some thought she was teething. Some thought her ears were hurting. All I could think was "could someone please donate a BOOB!!!" The flight attendants had compassion for all of the passengers who tolerated the screaming baby that all cocktails were complimentary.

I couldn't help but think of Tom Papa's skit about babies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCFQjDD3N04





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The answer is simple - don't ever fly this asshole airline. Ever. Ever.



Shit.... shit.... shit....

I Have a pair of tickets still good from Continental. We've flown with the little girl once before, on US Airways, but she was only a few months old at the time, and she was never a problem then. Now she's 15 months old and just about in that stage where I hate going to restaurants, but we always bring some of her toys and books along to try and keep her occupied. All in all, she's done pretty good and I have managed to make her stop when she acts up.

Its a damn shame the planes don't have a sound-proof section... other than the cargo hold! :D
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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The answer is simple - don't ever fly this asshole airline. Ever. Ever.



Or at least not if you're travelling with kids you can't control (which will leave seats open for folks who don't appreciate all the noise). :ph34r:

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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The answer is simple - don't ever fly this asshole airline. Ever. Ever.



Or at least not if you're travelling with kids you can't control (which will leave seats open for folks who don't appreciate all the noise). :ph34r:

Blues,
Dave


Hmmm.... maybe I should buy a bunch of earplugs and hand them out if the little one has an uncontrollable tantrum in flight.... :P After all, they need the same choice I have. :ph34r:
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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If parents cannot control their children and make them behave in a civilized manner, They should be sent home until such time as they can.



Agreed!!



Indeed..

me? i'm MORE likely to fly on an airline that puts the Comfort and Safety of the REST OF THE PLANE ahead of one mother's inability to control and discipline her child.

the simple fact you were able to procreate is not a 'free excuse' for you and your undisciplined family to annoy me for 6 hours...

hmm seems i need to write an email in support of this airline and stewardess. I'm absolutely sick of businesses coddling parents who are incapable of controlling their spawn. It is inexcusable that the "what about the children?" cry is used to condone their continual bad behavior on the rest of the world. Its about time someone stood up and insisted that parents be responsible for the disturbances their poor parenting skills create, instead of inflicting them on everyone else and shrugging like there is/was nothing they can do about it.
____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

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The answer is simple - don't ever fly this asshole airline. Ever. Ever.



Why? Because of this incident? If people said they were not going to fly ABC air because of something bad they heard on the news nobody would fly. You never hear the good we do. Just when some whiney ass mom goes to the press.
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

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But since we're on the subject of frustration, I've never had any kids yet I've had to pay plenty in school taxes (via rent) and what do I get out of the deal? 20 mph school zone speed limits during peak traffic times and having to stop traffic *both* ways while a school bus is unloading.

Not to mention the portion of my taxes that go to welfare mamas who have made a career out of having babies they cannot afford and who will likely end up as violent criminals.

I don't think it's fair that I be subjected to fucked up behavior by kids in an environment where I am a paying customer. I don't subject others to that kind of crap so why should I expect any less from others?

Do I let kids trick or treat at my house? Nope. I'm already paying for their schooling. Raccoons, squirrels, birds and other critters are always welcome. Kids expecting another handout? No.



agreed 100% I knew there was a reason i liked you...
____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

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I don't know why, but after reading this, I thought of that tight ass bitch flight attendant from the movie "Meet The Parents" who gave Greg Focker a hard time.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=5472927



I think she needs to be sent to Gitmo and held there, the attendant is obviously a terrorist.

I'll even bet she does 270s.>:(
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

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I don't know why, but after reading this, I thought of that tight ass bitch flight attendant from the movie "Meet The Parents" who gave Greg Focker a hard time.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=5472927



Thank god, you know how many flights I've been on where I wish the kids would be removed?

__________________________________________________
"Beware how you take away hope from another human being."
-Oliver Wendell Holmes

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But since we're on the subject of frustration, I've never had any kids yet I've had to pay plenty in school taxes (via rent) and what do I get out of the deal? 20 mph school zone speed limits during peak traffic times and having to stop traffic *both* ways while a school bus is unloading.



I think it's so funny when people that don't have kids rant about their 'tax money' paying for schools...because you weren't a kid that went to school, played on public park playground equipment, or used a library, right? :D

Other peoples' tax money paid/pay for your safety and education, too. :S

And we'll pay for it again when you're too old to take care of yourself...or you f* up your next jump and miraculously live through it but are paralyzed for life and your job dumps you and you can't provide for your own housing and food any more...on and on.


And again back to the original subject, nobody is more annoyed than me when it comes to kids misbehaving due to poor discipline...but I stand behind my statement that an 18 month old baby talking after an 11 hour delay in an airport is not misbehaving.
~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

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but I stand behind my statement that an 18 month old baby talking after an 11 hour delay in an airport is not misbehaving.



But a Mother that refuses to even try to stop her child from Interrupting an FAA mandated safety breifing and/or annoying other passengers is.

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but I stand behind my statement that an 18 month old baby talking after an 11 hour delay in an airport is not misbehaving.



But a Mother that refuses to even try to stop her child from Interrupting an FAA mandated safety breifing and/or annoying other passengers is.


I didn't see in the article where the mom refused to do anything about it. i'd find it terribly hard to believe that the woman sat there and didn't do a thing.

-but Ok, devil's advocate...if she did absolutely nothing and didn't even ask the baby to be quiet when the flight demon asked her to quiet the baby (though 'shut the kid up' or the benadryl statement would have been met with some words by me -and we DAMN SURE would have been kicked off the plane after that), then I guess y'all can give her the 'terrible parent' label if it makes everyone feel better. :S

Screaming, kicking seats, tantrums...I'd totally understand asking mom and child to beat it.
~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

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