TrophyHusband 0 #1 August 16, 2007 nasa has yet to make a decision on whether or not to repair the shuttle. from my uninformed point of view, it seems like a slam dunk. if it isn't fixed and there is catastrophic failure on re-entry, the people making the decision will have to live with it the rest of their lives. is a spacewalk that dangerous that they don't want to risk it? is there anyone with knowledge of the subject that can shed some light here? "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #2 August 16, 2007 Quote nasa has yet to make a decision on whether or not to repair the shuttle. from my uninformed point of view, it seems like a slam dunk. if it isn't fixed and there is catastrophic failure on re-entry, the people making the decision will have to live with it the rest of their lives. is a spacewalk that dangerous that they don't want to risk it? is there anyone with knowledge of the subject that can shed some light here? If they don't fix it and the shuttle burns up like Columbia did, then the decision makers should have all their asses thrown in jail for life! "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sockpuppet 0 #3 August 16, 2007 Unless the decision makers are on the shuttle. ------ Two of the three voices in my head agree with you. It might actually be unanimous but voice three only speaks Welsh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #4 August 16, 2007 I don't think it's the danger factor of the spacewalk, but rather the possibility of doing MORE damage during the repair.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #5 August 16, 2007 I would imagine that it's because 'fixing' the damage isn't as easy as it sounds. A space walk isn't a 'cakewalk' so to speak, a planned one takes months and even years of practice and rehearsal. Though I'm sure this scenario was gone over and practiced, it wasn't to the extent other mission directives were. It's a dangerous deal, if it doesn't absolutely HAVE to be done there will be discussion as to the cost / benefit. ....that being said, if it were MY ass riding in that tin can, I'd be out there with a can of Bondo and a putty knife orders or not! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #6 August 16, 2007 QuoteI don't think it's the danger factor of the spacewalk, but rather the possibility of doing MORE damage during the repair. That's true... but haven't some of these astronauts gone through training for those specific tasks? They have the tools needed, as a result of the Columbia disaster. And if worst comes to worst, they'll stay at the space station for as long as 2 months if bringing back the shuttle is too risky, if I remember the article I read correctly. Now THAT would be interesting, with the station as cramped as it is."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrFreefall383 0 #7 August 16, 2007 Right, it's the idea that if a repair operation goes bad, you could do more damage, and worse yet, more damage than can be repaired by the crew. It's risky enough that you have to debate it for a while and figure out the logistics of the decision, what it's going to take, what can go wrong, how to account for that, etc. It's not like a repair on your car where if you fuck up you can still take a bus to work, you screw up working on the shuttle, you've got no other way back home, and the ISS can't support that many people for a long period of time."If at first you don't succeed... well, so much for skydiving." - aviation cliche Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beerlight 0 #8 August 16, 2007 Previous flights (before Columbia tragedy) returned with up to 300 gouges without problems. The issue is not astronaut training (there's tons of that), but an issue of further damage that may be imposed during a tile repair manuever. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #9 August 16, 2007 Quote is a spacewalk that dangerous that they don't want to risk it? It is when you can't walk in a straight line ... drunken astronauts. "That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,881 #10 August 16, 2007 There are several issues. 1) The repair may cause more damage than it fixes. An erroneous movement of the arm, or a careless action by an astronaut, may damage the tiles as well - they're pretty fragile when it comes to mechanical damage. Think pumice, but more crack-able. 2) The reason they're worrying about it at _all_ is that the exposed area might be damaged further by heat and that would necessitate a very expensive repair once they land. So it would be more a cost and schedule savings than a safety issue. 3) Spacewalks are not risk free. We haven't had a death yet, but that's (sadly) probably just a matter of time. There's a lot of junk flying around up there, and what will just pit a window on the shuttle (which happens all the time) will probably hole a suit. Imagine a controller who decided to try to fix a non-serious problem and had the astronaut die in the attempt. Would _you_ want to live with that for the rest of your life? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psipike02 0 #11 August 16, 2007 To echo Billvon's response, the issue with a spacewalk on the underside of the shuttle is that there is nothing to hold on to. When they are doing walks on the ISS or in/out of the cargo bay, there are foot holds and guard rails. They will be hanging on to nothing and there really isn't a way for the manipulator arm to reach around the underside (at least not to my knowledge). Each one of them has a "jet pack" that they can activate and fly back to the shuttle, should they slip and fall away from it, but it the propellant only lasts for a certain amount of time. So that just adds to it....and definitely Bill's 1st point is probably the one they are most worried about.Puttin' some stank on it. ----Hellfish #707---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,374 #12 August 16, 2007 Another thing to consider is that they have plenty of time to consider all aspects, so why not use some of that time, and really work out the options? Being the shuttle, that means that they're being considered in public. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sharimcm 0 #13 August 16, 2007 From what I've heard is they have a team of people who will be mimicking the repair procedures in a pool of water. If the team in the water can do it with no issues, they will send an astronaut from the crew to repair it in space. "I had a dude tip his black cowboy hat to me after I provided him with a condom outside my hotel room at 3-something in the morning." -myself Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #14 August 16, 2007 Quote ....that being said, if it were MY ass riding in that tin can, I'd be out there with a can of Bondo and a putty knife orders or not! Bondo... J B Weld... and two coats of primer! I pray they make the right decision and the crew lands safely.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ACMESkydiver 0 #15 August 16, 2007 Quote ....that being said, if it were MY ass riding in that tin can, I'd be out there with a can of Bondo and a putty knife orders or not! ~Jaye Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,881 #16 August 16, 2007 >They will be hanging on to nothing and there really isn't a way for the >manipulator arm to reach around the underside (at least not to my >knowledge). They'll be using the arm to get them close enough to reach the affected area. It's long enough (100 ft unfolded) to reach around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #17 August 16, 2007 Hehehe you said "reach around" "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
psipike02 0 #18 August 16, 2007 Ok, cool...thats what I wasn't sure of. I knew it was pretty long and able to get to precocious spots, but didn't know how long exactly..Puttin' some stank on it. ----Hellfish #707---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Freefly710 0 #19 August 16, 2007 Quote there really isn't a way for the manipulator arm to reach around the underside (at least not to my knowledge). actually, the robotic arm is what reached around and inspected the damage with the laser and cameras. all the images of the damage we have seen were taken by that arm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #20 August 16, 2007 QuoteQuote there really isn't a way for the manipulator arm to reach around the underside (at least not to my knowledge). actually, the robotic arm is what reached around and inspected the damage with the laser and cameras. all the images of the damage we have seen were taken by that arm. I thought the space station astronauts took all the pictures when the shuttle was making its approach. Ever since Columbia, they've done this. Have the shuttle do a slow somersault that exposes the entire belly while the ISS inhabitants snap away with extreme high resolution zoom cameras."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,929 #21 August 16, 2007 Quote Quote ....that being said, if it were MY ass riding in that tin can, I'd be out there with a can of Bondo and a putty knife orders or not! Bondo... J B Weld... and two coats of primer! . The Air Wisconsin way?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Freefly710 0 #22 August 16, 2007 youre right...they did take some pics...but the laser system on the robotic arm was used to determine the depth of the gash... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #23 August 16, 2007 Quoteyoure right...they did take some pics...but the laser system on the robotic arm was used to determine the depth of the gash... Oh yeah, I missed that detail. Didn't they find that the deepest part of the gash left the aluminum skin of the shuttle exposed? I hope not."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,881 #24 August 16, 2007 >Didn't they find that the deepest part of the gash left the aluminum >skin of the shuttle exposed? I hope not. Nope, there's a layer of heat resistant felt still covering the skin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #25 August 16, 2007 Quote>Didn't they find that the deepest part of the gash left the aluminum >skin of the shuttle exposed? I hope not. Nope, there's a layer of heat resistant felt still covering the skin. Cool... God help them if they don't fix it and something goes wrong anyway."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
