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udder

Sabre's and the oversize slider...

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I've read a few posts about this but nothing that answers my questions. Are there people with hundereds of slammer free openings on a sabre that previosuly used to spank? I have read about using a tandem slider http://www.pcprg.com/hardop.htm (can someone make clicky) but I have also read about too large a slider speeding up openings. How come this comparatively massive slider hasn't speeded up openings? And can it be fitted to sabre that open ok most of the time? Obviously every canopy is slightly different so nothing can be said for certain. Just looking to see if anyone has long term experience with these mods and what the most effective one is?


Can you tell im a poorass student?
"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E

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I was using a sabre for about 50 jumps that had fairly quick openings, and about 1/3 of the time would have a slammer.

I had a rigger sew a pocket on the slider, but it worked a little too well. 1500+ foot openings :o

So he made the pocket a little smaller and now it works pretty well. most of the opennigs are fairly nice, with about 10% being hard.

I went with a slider pocket rather then the larger slider because a pocket can't cause faster openings like a larger slider can. and i am a poorass student too, the pocket only cost me $25 though. B|

MB 3528, RB 1182

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I'd agree with the statement a larger slider can cause faster/harder openings. If the dimensions of the slider allow for too much bottom skin to be exposed initially then the slider can be forced down prematurely by the expansion of the canopy.
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udder:
I have read about using a tandem slider http://www.pcprg.com/hardop.htm but I have also read about too large a slider speeding up openings.

peek:
Every canopy is different. I found that this solution worked for the Sabre, but it may not work for some canopies.

Note: The final design is a slider of a specific size, not a "Tandem slider"!

udder:
How come this comparatively massive slider hasn't speeded up openings?

peek:
It can possibly speed up openings on some canopies but it does not with the Sabre.

Note: The slider design specified is much larger from front to rear, but only 2 inches larger side to side. This is an important fact to remember. Sliders are usually designed so that the side to side size is slightly smaller than the cell size, and going larger than that might cause trouble.


udder:
And can it be fitted to sabre that open ok most of the time? Just looking to see if anyone has long term experience with these mods and what the most effective one is?

peek:
The author of that article has very long term experience with the prescribed mod! ... and is extremely confident that it will work. :)

(Keep in mind that if a canopy deploys in a way that allows the slider to move down the lines before inflation, that it can cause a very hard opening no matter what the slider. A large slider does not "guarantee" a good opening.)

Note that I have hundreds of jumps on a Stiletto with a larger slider and this slows down the opening on this design too.


I am now working with some large slider configurations with "medium performance" non zero-porosity canopies. Stay tuned.

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I went with a slider pocket rather then the larger slider because a pocket can't cause faster openings like a larger slider can.



Could you elaborate?:)


a larger slider will have larger distances between the grommits. So the lines, and therefore the canopy, will be more spread out when the canopy begins to open. The canopy can catch more air then it was designed to on opening, and might open much faster then normal.

thats whats been explained to me anyway. this is so weird explaining this to a big rigger. I get the feeling I am being set up for a fall :P

MB 3528, RB 1182

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I have a Sabre 1 190 that I bought used with a "camera man's slider" (what I was told when I bought it). I believe that it's oversized.

I only have about 70-80 jumps on it, so take this for what it's worth, but I have never (knock on wood) been slammed. Conversely, a 1000' opening is pretty typical.

If Brent Finely reads these forums, he might be able to tell you more about the slider - it was his canopy, originally.

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I had a new sabre 135 that opened much too fast for my liking, with a couple of nasty slammers within 50 jumps or so. I emailed PD and they sent me a new slider FOC. As I recall (I no longer have the canopy), the eplacement slider was 2 inches larger chordwise (front-to-back) but the same width.

I did about a further hundred jumps before selling the canopy. It certainly made the openings more acceptable (no slammers), but still quite brisk compared to more modern canopy designs.

I would definitely recommend (a) dont just try a random larger slider. (b) talk to PD or a least an experienced rigger.

HTH

Geoff

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Hi,

I am a newbie also. I bought a 1998 sabre 1 150, and the openings were more 'brisk' (but not brutal) than any of the rigs I had hired.

I have only 50 jumps on the canopy - so maybe you can discount my analysis as male cow excrement...

I had pockets sewn on the slider, and the openings seem more constant.

The opening takes +-200m (600ft).

The problem seems to be that the slider comes down the lines in one quick movement. ie. it is up, slows me for a few moments, and then is instantly down.

If I roll the nose, the part with the slider up lasts longer, and the opening takes longer. It is not any softer however. Perhaps the slider up part of the opening already slows me as much as it can with its open surface area, and reaches an equilibrium. Perhaps rolling the nose only causes this phase to last longer (ie. I stay at the same descent rate for a few extra seconds without slowing further) before the slider descends suddenly in one movement, thus increasing the opening time, but not opening shock.

Anyway. The openings are now OK (so far). I don't bother rolling the nose nowadays. I do take good care of the slider during packing. I do not ever watch the opening as I have done with other canopies, and always do some good neck stretching exercises at the start of the day.

Feel free to regard all of the above as not worth the server space it's stored on....:P

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peek, thanks for the very comprehensive reply. I didnt mean any old tandem slider, I realize that it was just the first in a series of steps to investigate the right size slider needed. To follow, why is it that something like the pilot can open so slowly while sabres can slam? What is it in the design of a canopy that enables it to open softly?
"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E

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To follow, why is it that something like the pilot can open so slowly while sabres can slam? What is it in the design of a canopy that enables it to open softly?



From what I recall, the Pilot has a fairly large slider which might account for it completely, but there may be some design issues that help too.

Most newer design canopies seem to have larger sliders, but this is a very general statement.

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I don't bother rolling the nose nowadays.



Try packing it the way the PD manual says too.
The nose is split folded 3 times, not rolled, and then pushed in the center some.
Be easy with setting it down on the ground, don't flop it down, take your time getting the air out of the canopy as well.
Doing both will help to not undo your flakes and nose folds.
Make sure you have a good line stows as well, a stow should let go with about 12 to 14 lbs pull force.
And make sure your stow is not to short.

These are the most common mistakes I see people make in packing.

~
you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

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Try packing it the way the PD manual says too.
The nose is split folded 3 times, not rolled, and then pushed in the center some.



What manual are you looking at? John Leblanc has told me that PD recommends you do NOT push the nose in. The last time I've looked at the manual, it said the same thing, but that was a couple of years ago.

Personally, I do nothing to the nose on sabres, quarter the slider and nothing more. I don't get many complaints on sabres, and I've packed many.
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Abbie drove me to Idaho and all I got was this lousy sigline

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My experience (again). A Sabre-1 120 that opened "hard" with the original slider. Note that the lines are not in trim. A substitute slider that is identical spanwise and 2" wider chordwise took the shock out of the openings. Still fast but not "hard". New brakelines with the cat's eye set about 3" shallower to more closely approximate the original setting have also improved the openings. Packing technique to encourage slow opening is a must though, pulling the slider way out in front of the nose is the primary factor. Two other Sabres, both 150 sf. have had no hard openings, 170 seems to be the worst culprit by reputation. As always YMMV.
Sometimes you eat the bear..............

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